On Heather's Workbench - Standard Superpower

[OzzyO]

Sorry no reduced flange on the centre wheels of a 9F.






In some of the photos it looks like there are small flanges (on both sides of the wheel) on the centre wheel, this is all down to the wheel in need of turning.
In the photo that Mick the half Dane posted most of what looks like a flange is just rail muck that has been pushed to one side.
In his? post he mentions about reduced flanges, in a way he is correct. But it's not the depth of the flange that is reduced but the thickness of them. If a normal flange is 3/4" the reduced flange would be 5/8".
The reduced flange is also on the L.M.S. 8Fs, this was to reduce the amount of play that was required between the wheel and the axle boxes.

HTH

OzzyO.

 

[richard carr]

The centre driver is flangeless and the drivers either side have reduced flanges, all the books on the 9f state that and it's on the works drawings as I have copies of them at great expense from the nrm. Personally I cannot wait for the 9f kit from mok,its the one thing that will stop me building diesels I have one set of agh castings left for this kit and hopefully there is going to be some S7 wheels for a second one.

I can soon provide you with a flangeless driver Heather if you need it.

PS under copyright law its fair use to copy a few photos or drawing s to this forum from a book.

 

[oldravendale]

PS under copyright law its fair use to copy a few photos or drawing s to this forum from a book.

If that's in fact correct I'll be able to copy photos to this forum regarding the colour of handrails on Princesses, the subject of a previous string. If there is some data and case law confirming this (and we should probably start a new subject if a discussion ensues) I'll send some pics to the earlier thread.

Brian

 

[adrian]

If that's in fact correct I'll be able to copy photos to this forum regarding the colour of handrails on Princesses, the subject of a previous string. If there is some data and case law confirming this (and we should probably start a new subject if a discussion ensues) I'll send some pics to the earlier thread.

There is a useful summary on copyright here https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

The issue here revolves around what is termed fair use or "fair dealing" as they call it. Under section 8 posting pictures about the colour of hand rails could fall under acceptable use of the images as it could be classed as either "for research purposes" or "for educational purposes". So wholesale copying of images just for the sake of it wouldn't be permissible but if you are just using a couple of images to illustrate a point or clarify some detail then as I understand it that would be acceptable.

 

[richard carr]

You can copy pretty much anything you like for private research purposes and that includes sharing it will fellow reasearchers ie members of this forum. What you can't do is try to exploit a copy in any commercial way, so if you want to include a drawing or photo in a book you should seek the copyright holder's permission.

Of course if it's an old photo then knowing who the copyright holder is can be very difficult, these are referred to as orphan works. There is likely to be some legislation on these later in the year but until then just copy them no one is going to stop you.


Richard

 

[SimonT]

Heather,
the RCTS history of the standards (vol 4) states that the centre pair were flangeless and the the pair on either side were provided with reduced flanges. There is a drawing in the book, should you wish to turn your wheels down.

Simon

 

[Heather Kay]

Cheers everyone!

I am hoping we can acquire a set of accurate wheels, after a discussion with Rob T at Brightwell last week.

 

[SimonT]

Apologies for repeating some of the above - posts 22 to 27 didn't appear here first thing this morning!

 

[OzzyO]

Just for completeness I've been looking in my books on the standards. One of the books states that the 9Fs (and most of the other standards, the class 2s excepted), had a minimum curve of 6 chains rad. So when we work it out.
6 chains = (6 X 22 yards = 132 yrd. X 3 = 396' / 43.54 = 9' rad. in 7mm).
If we are to assume that the locos would be allowed around a 4 1/2 chains Rad. dead slow this would be 6 3/4' in 7mm.
For anyone that would like to work out the side play required on the full size loco the driving wheelbase is 21' 8"

I would assume that the centre drivers would have no play.

As for the rods having any special joints I'm not sure.

OzzyO.

 

[richard carr]

We should also remember that for the real thing, track is flexible. In fact it's amazing how much it moves if you watch a freight train go over some bullhead track.

Sadly our model track isn't as helpful.

Richard

 

[OzzyO]

The Spaceships are one of the most fascinating classes in British railways history and deserving of study. With the interest in the motion and running gear so far in this topic I have a question that I hope can be answered here - given the wheelbase of the engine, presumably with some side play in some of the axles, what provision was made within the coupling rods to accomodate the sideways displacement of wheelsets? (for example... joints in rods to accomodate horizontal deflection).

thanks, Graham

Hello Graham,

looking at photos and drawing of the 9Fs, the only coupling rod that is "rigid" between any coupled wheel sets is the one between axle 2 and 3. All of the rest have a forked joint between them. So its possible that normal play would be enough.

HTH

OzzyO.

 

[Compton castle]

Hello Graham,

looking at photos and drawing of the 9Fs, the only coupling rod that is "rigid" between any coupled wheel sets is the one between axle 2 and 3. All of the rest have a forked joint between them. So its possible that normal play would be enough.

HTH

OzzyO.

Keep all this info handy for my MOK 9F matey

 

[Dog Star]

We should also remember that for the real thing, track is flexible. In fact it's amazing how much it moves if you watch a freight train go over some bullhead track.

Too true... especially when the shunters tried to put GWR no. 7202 into a shed road at Didcot in the late 1970s, the "Big Brute" (to paraphrase Heather) made a fair attempt at straightening the diverging road from the ladder which fed all of the shed roads.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

And bear in mind that flangeless tyres had no coning either so if you turn the flange off of your wheel then turn the tread square to the face otherwise your loco will derail on tight curves .

Some sideplay can be introduced into these big loco's ( not behind the slide bars ) but also work out the tightest radius on the layout and build the chassis accordingly, within reason of coarse. Gauge widening ? yep we've discussed this before

Col.