Signalling Polsarrett S&T

Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Morning all.

There's discussion on another thread about creation of a stand alone signalling thread. In the meantime it was suggested that signalling queries could go into the PW area.

So...

Polsarrett is my unashamedly not really prototypical foray into building a small cameo layout in 4mm. The original idea being that I could quickly complete a 5' long cameo module and then easily transport it in the back of the car. Pencarrow is my 7mm layout that is many years off completion and will need a van to shift!

I'm into the ex LSWR lines in Cornwall and Polsarrett is set in the early 1960s somewhere along the Wadebridge-Bodmin line. Essentially it's a halt, a bit like Nanstallon, on a single line branch. Like Nanstallon there's a level crossing and the box is next to that not the platform.

On it's own a single line with a halt would be a tad boring so, in true modeller fashion, I've added some sidings for a clay dries which also involved the inclusion of a run round loop. The position of the loop away from the platform face also allows for the layout to be run end to end and passenger trains run around if I only add the left hand fiddle. Ignore this latter point in considerations though.

In summary, the layout is definitely designed as a play thing rather than a slavish copy of prototype practice. I would however like the overall scene to look convincing and nothing obviously screaming WRONG to those casting an eye over the layout.

I'll add some photos of the layout in overview so you can see the track layout in a following post. My key questions though relate to:
  • routing of the point rodding
  • arrangement of the levers in the cabin
  • location of ground signals if required
  • and am I making best use of the signals pictured below?
IMG_20201223_162321.jpg.9254c3a9743a3dd172c41411f90baf0e.jpg

The above are of great sentimental value as they were built for a previous layout, Treneglos, 18 years ago by a good friend who sadly passed a few years ago. Being 4mm, I have no use for them on my 7mm layout, and would dearly like to see them used on Polsarrett.

More to follow...
 
Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
I'm starting with an overall view of the layout which hopefully provides some context.

rps20211221_074300.jpg

The cabin is on the far left next to the level crossing. Platform face is front right. There's a siding off the running line serving the provender store which does have a fake catch point fitted. The clay dries is served off the loop and has 2 lines going into the works. I know there's a catch point missing at the left end of the loop, space prevented fitting that in, but it has been suggested that faking up an arrangement like the one below could fix this:

rps20211221_075113.jpg

Hopefully that's my permanent way sins dealt with. ;)

Below is a view from a passing light aircraft of the layout viewed from the left hand end.

IMG_20211221_073923_1.jpg

And another when viewed from the right hand end. The line closest to the platform goes off stage into the small fiddle.

rps20211221_075532.jpg

Next is the signalling diagram I originally knocked up based on scant knowledge of what I was doing.

rps20210912_162121.jpg.b4c016e7ce1402358a4613036906fa6c.jpg

In conversation elsewhere it was suggested that point 8 would probably be a hand pull rather than a lever in the box. Also that the off-scene down starter 12 was probably overkill.

My intentions to use the 2 signals are as follows.

Place the tall co-acting lattice next to the LSWR cottage as the down home 13. My sales pitch is that the off-scene curvature and other obstructions require the extra height and for it to be on the wrong side. As an aside it also helps mask the exit hole. The bottle below shows the position.

IMG_20211221_074006.jpg

The single signal would be used as the up starter 5. In my mind this also protects the level crossing. Given the short platform length, locos would halt beyond the platform edge and across point 7. The second bottle shows the proposed location.

IMG_20211221_074023_1.jpg

Below is an overall view of both 'signals' in wider context.

IMG_20211221_074031.jpg

Thoughts on my ramblings so far will be warmly appreciated.
 
Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
So my first question to the assembled throng (auto-correct said thong but I think that's not correct...) is, what would would the point rodding take to get from the cabin to the crossover 5 and associated FPL 4 at the far right of the layout?
 
cbrailways

cbrailways

Western Thunderer
Hi Chris. Firstly your layout looks absolutely brilliant and I can see that two Chris's have the same thoughts about small layouts! To be honest your proposed signalling would be considered as a bit 'over the top' for a small country station (especially an NCR one) where economy in operation was key. However, Rule 1 applies and it can be assumed that the traffic justified a fully signalled layout. Give me a few days and I will come back to you on your proposal. I can work out the point rodding and signal wire runs for you as well. Don't also forget about a telegraph pole route and wires that always seem to be missing from models. However, I can tell you a tale about one of my layouts and a certain household cat, but thats for later.

The two signals you have can be fitted in, and they look very professional in construction.

Interesting that you posted a photo of 14B and 14C points at Bodmin General as I'm somewhat involved at present in implementing a signalling scheme there for a new second platform.....
 
Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
cbrailways said:
Hi Chris. Firstly your layout looks absolutely brilliant and I can see that two Chris's have the same thoughts about small layouts! To be honest your proposed signalling would be considered as a bit 'over the top' for a small country station (especially an NCR one) where economy in operation was key. However, Rule 1 applies and it can be assumed that the traffic justified a fully signalled layout. Give me a few days and I will come back to you on your proposal. I can work out the point rodding and signal wire runs for you as well. Don't also forget about a telegraph pole route and wires that always seem to be missing from models. However, I can tell you a tale about one of my layouts and a certain household cat, but thats for later.

The two signals you have can be fitted in, and they look very professional in construction.

Interesting that you posted a photo of 14B and 14C points at Bodmin General as I'm somewhat involved at present in implementing a signalling scheme there for a new second platform.....
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply and offer of help, much appreciated.

With regards to signalling on the real Wadebridge to Bodmin line, the photo below (if the link works) shows the cabin, crossing and signal at Nanstallon that's inspiration for part of my scene.

Nanstallon Halt

Don't worry, telegraph poles are also going to be added. I suspect fitting wires may be asking for trouble and result in snagging and bad language. You're not the first to suggest a frame on the platform to release the crossover. I'm open to all suggestions.

The signals were built by a good friend, originally operated by that thermal wire stuff but later converted to servos. I'll be amending the bases to make them much shorter so they don't protrude below the baseboard.

Interesting comment about Bodmin General getting a second platform, makes sense to improve operational capacity and redundancy.
 
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Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
I note in the text attached to the photo in the link above that it says:

"The ground level signal box contained a 10 lever Stevens tappet frame."

Not sure what the tappet bit means though...
 
cbrailways

cbrailways

Western Thunderer
A Tappet frame is the type of mechanical interlocking fitted to a lever frame. In the late 1800s/early 1900s many different types of mechanical interlocking were invented, but Tappet interlocking is the one mostly still in existance on what is left of mechanical signalboxes on the UK network.
 
Pencarrow

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
NHY 581 said:
Bonjour PC.

You could summarise what I know about signalling on the back of half a postage stamp but those signals look jolly good and I can see why you want to include them.


SB
Click to expand...

Indeed SheepBloke, I couldn't bear to let them go with the rest of the layout when we sold Treneglos a few years back. A momento with lots of memories attached. They need a little TLC and finials adding but should look the part.
 
John Duffy

John Duffy

Western Thunderer
I had always avoided signals as they looked too difficult to make. Having taken the plunge and made a couple I am now hooked. They are sooo satisfying to watch, especially if you have bounce mechanism attached. You definitely need to find an excuse to include your examples as they are really nice.

Point rodding - put yourself in the S&T gaffers shoes. What is the easiest way to do the job. You won't go far wrong then as they seem to always be extremely practical problem solvers.

John
 
J

J_F_S

Western Thunderer
Pencarrow said:
Just got to find the 0.4mm square rod that I thought I'd bought...
Click to expand...

Very nive looking bits in those bags!

Just to mention that the LSWR / SR never used square (ie channel) rodding, remining loyal to tube until BR days. Channel rodding should actually be a bit fair bit larger than 0.4 - I ended up drawing my own wire using a jeweler's draw plate as I could find nothing of the right size. (yes, my layout is based on the Southern but was re-equipped in BR days - that my story...)

Lead offs-2.jpg

Side Ramp Top Small.jpg

Looking forward to seeing the Modelu stuff when completed.

Best Wishes,
Howard
 
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