7mm Poor man's Alamosa.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Scale7JB, 1 October 2020.

  1. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Hi all,

    So as to avoid hijacking Mick's US Dabblings thread, I have started up this page for one of my many long term projects.

    I'll just leave this here as my inspiration.

    Yes thats a standard gauge diesel shunting a narrow gauge caboose, with an adjustable height buckeye coupler on the loco.

    Image Copyright - Denver Public Library. Borrowed with thanks and will remove if requested.

  2. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    It's a good start JB, those Baldwin switchers were a class act...

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  3. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    This thread needs some content so just grabbed a few pictures of the project so far.

    The Atlas f9 will be redecorated into something far more suitable as mentioned on Mickoo's thread.

    The Bachmann On30 consolidations I've been collecting for a little while now, outright one of the nicest ready to run models out there I think. These make a good basis for the DRGW C-21 and C-25 W which worked alongside the more famous K class 2-8-2's and from what I have read recently were almost as powerful.

    Please excuse the dirty tiles at the back!!! :eek:

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg

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  4. Oz7mm

    Oz7mm Western Thunderer

    I reckon the diesel might bodge into an NSWR 42 class - apart from being about scale 20' too short


  5. PhilH

    PhilH Western Thunderer

    I would agree that the Bachmann 2-8-0 is indeed a nice model and a good start for a narrow gauge layout. Its fairly easy to convert to 0n3 gauge, but maybe you don't want to go down that route. I believe its based on a 30" prototype built by Baldwin for South or Central America, so appropriate for 0n30, but I'm not sure how close you can get it to a D&RGW C-21 or C-25. A drawing of the C-25 was published in the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette magazine some time ago, I can look it up and send you a copy by PM if you wish. Another alternative is Silverton Northern #34, another outside framed 2-8-0 which looks a little nearer to the Bachmann loco. I have an 0 Scale drawing of that loco which I could also supply a copy.

    Apparently Accucraft were proposing to do the C-25 in both 0n3 and 0n30 see:

    but didn't get enough pre-orders to justify production. At a proposed price of $1950 I'm not surprised, I paid little more than half that price for a brass PSC/Samhongsa version a few years ago.
  6. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    And 6 inches too wide and 1 foot too tall, not to mention the missing couple of axles. But if you want it to be 7mm scale you would need to cut less out of the nose, which isn't quite the right shape to start with.
  7. Oz7mm

    Oz7mm Western Thunderer

    I did say bodge! And then I checked the number of wheels.

    Not a runner I agree.

  8. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Is it 6" or 3", no one actually seems to know and I've been down a lot of rabbit holes on this and found no definitive proof.

    One source quotes Clydes internal correspondence that instructs the cab halves to have 1½" cut from them before joining, hence the thinner (3") central pillar on Aussie units.

    Apparently, the exported or loaned jig was for the nose top, windscreen and quarter light areas, the rest was down to Clyde.

    The height looks to have come from the body base, the roof line and profile remaining the same.

    The width of the US F unit is 9' - 9 7/8" over jacking pads, the side panel skins are a fraction wider, handrails and other fixtures, wider still.

    Given there are virtually no reliable drawings (not that I've found and happy to pay if there were) and certainly no alternatives, there comes a point where the extra width (height can be dealt with easily) and nose shape become mute. Your choices are something that looks nearly right (and for some, that'll do just fine) or nothing at all.

    I do still randomly kick around an idea of an etched CLP car body and grafting the Roco nose on, maybe even narrowing it to the correct width and fitting a replacement nose light barrel.
  9. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    The bodies of the Australian streamliners are 3" narrower than the F7 etc. I was approximating as the side handrails are recessed on the Clyde built units to reduce the overall width as well, note the splayed sides to the recessed cab doors. The Victorian B and S classes were quoted as being 9'9" wide overall while F7s etc are usually quoted as 10'7" wide overall, with a 9'10" wide body. I measured the width of a B class body a few years ago to check but will have to find the notebook to give the actual dimension. The reduction across the top of the nose resulted in a visible seam or hump on some locos. The height reduction all came out of the rolled parts below the nose top pressing. The cab windows and nose top pressings were all imported from the US, although I do wonder about the NSW 421 class noses as they never looked quite right. Saying that, I don't think the Roco nose shape is right either.

    For those who don't know what a CLP is the Commonwealth Railways CL class were the last EMD streamliners built anywhere with the classic nose grafted to a larger car body for 3,000hp. Rebuilt in the 1990s as either CLP (passenger) and CLF (freight).
    cl17 web-630x405.jpg
    clf 121073 wl crop.jpg
  10. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    £25, thanks eBay!

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg

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  11. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer


    How seriously are you taking this 1:48 lark? I note that although the Santa Fe did have International Standard cabooses, they were of a unique design that isn't represented by the Roco model. Or any of the later Atlas ones either.

    MTH do a pretty good ATSF caboose that seems to respond well to fiddling.

    And I'm guessing you're eyeing this one up for DRGW anyway? In which case, ignore all I've just written...! :))

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  12. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    I would say that've calmed down a little bit. Its a very slow burner and a tiny budget (hence 'poor man's' Alamos) or id just go out and buy a bunch on the MMI 2-8-2's. Everything will live in their respective boxes until we can move into a house.

    Thanks for the info however yes, it'll be Rio Grande to suit the F9 when changed. I do need to work out which year and so which livery will be suitable for the F unit. I'd hazard a guess somewhere around the late 40's so that C-21/25's are still around.

  13. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Hi Phil.

    Im still not sure if I want to go down the P48/On3 route. I'd like to keep the locos to a condition whereby I can easily sell them again at a profit when I get bored of it all, or eventually get to where I want to be with 7 1/4" gauge. Or just too plain busy with work to worry about model trains.

    I've seen a few photos of Bachmann models that have been modified. These have generally been to:

    Shorten the front platform area, and so the lead pony truck too.

    Change the cab roof.

    Possibly source new sand domes from PSC.

    Remove the external valve gear.

    Raise the coal rails on the tender.

    In theory you'd want to remove the fly weights on the outside cranks too, but I think that would be just too much work for not enough return.

    Link here to a finished conversion.

    C-21 from Bachmann 2-8-0
    C-21´s 360 and 361 (1)

    C-25 from Bachmann 2-8-0
    375 (1)

  14. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    So a house with a field JB :D

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  15. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    We can only dream, and with the general trend of people looking to move out of cities to the countryside, that may be becoming a little more difficult. In fairness though a miniature engine would be used at clubs rather than at home. Having an engine is one thing, having a private railway (one worth having at least) is a completely different potato.

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  16. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    The timescale planned would rule out the ICC wide vision caboose as they were introduced in the 60s. Then again rule #1 :).

    If you haven't seen them there are some good notes on DRGW F unit paint schemes here D & RGW Paint Schemes for F Units.

    Any F unit of mine would be either SSW Daylight, Black Widow or Bloody Nose. ;)
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  17. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Rabbit hole!
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  18. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    There's a small element of Rule No.1, as you'd never see an F unit shunting or even anywhere near Alamosa and the narrow gauge.

  19. Lancastrian

    Lancastrian Western Thunderer

    I stayed in Alamosa once. Managed to get the address for one of the waitresses at the hotel ;) That was a long time ago now.
    I didn't get to see the railway though :(

  20. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Sounds like a fun trip.

    I believe it's all long gone now.