HO Steph's DDR and Czech workbench

[Steph Dale]

@michl080, I've done my civic duty and won that BR94.20 you discovered. It'll be interesting to see whether it has the same 'problems' the other two do. Whether it does or not it, it might provide the trigger for investigating new chassis for them. I'll have to bash the books (or find the numberplates I had from VS Modellbau) to remind myself of the identity of the third late survivor...

This week some replacement Atlas Editions 'Laminatka' have arrived for the S699 conversion and I've made a little progress on design work for a BR03 chassis. Well, I've started working out the batch differences at least - there are many. At least those Atlas Editions locos are only about a tenner each...!

Steph

 

[michael080]

Steph,

no doubt you will have a lot of fun with this kit. I guess you need these challenges from time to time. Finney7 kits are just too straightforward to build.

Michael

 

[Roger Pound]

Hello,
I have just sold off my entire H0 stock after some forty years of modelling mainly DB/DR with a later excursion in to SNCF, but at my age I have decided to concentrate my final modelling efforts on British outline. After all, I am fortunate to have seen the 'Big Four', British railways in all its variations and privatisation - all in the flesh so to speak. However, I did enjoy this thread immensely and raise my hat to all your efforts Steph. So many of your loco models are very familiar to me in rtr versions - I have not your aptitude and skill for improvement to the high standards that you have attained. Long may you continue to enjoy the continental scene and I attach a photograph of a pair of CSD locos at Brno, supplied by my Grandson, who is now resident in that country which I hope may interest you.
I hope you enjoy it and thanks for allowing me this minor hi-jack of your thread.

Roger.

 

[Steph Dale]

no doubt you will have a lot of fun with this kit. I guess you need these challenges from time to time. Finney7 kits are just too straightforward to build.

Err.... If this one has the same problem as the other two I will publish it. I had been told that the problems with mine were down to the fact they were very early production (like the first and second - they were ordered before the kit was even announced!), but we'll see.

Roger,
You're very kind, and your interjection is very welcome. I'm enjoying getting back into some of this with some different solutions and practices to solve some of the problems. That's a lovely photo of the two CD 210s (Ex- S458.0, I think?), thank you for posting it.

Steph

 

[mickoo]

@michl080, I've done my civic duty and won that BR94.20 you discovered. It'll be interesting to see whether it has the same 'problems' the other two do. Whether it does or not it, it might provide the trigger for investigating new chassis for them. I'll have to bash the books (or find the numberplates I had from VS Modellbau) to remind myself of the identity of the third late survivor...

This week some replacement Atlas Editions 'Laminatka' have arrived for the S699 conversion and I've made a little progress on design work for a BR03 chassis. Well, I've started working out the batch differences at least - there are many. At least those Atlas Editions locos are only about a tenner each...!

Steph

May be of interest.....

94 2043-1 Eibenstock 4 April 1975 by snatmann, on Flickr

Click the link for larger options to save.

 

[adrian]

May be of interest.....

Fascinating photo for all the plumbing and detailing - however just curious - what is the purpose of the wooden shuttering over the rear of the cab?

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick, that's perfect - the last of the three I need photos for and the view is not one I have - thank you!

Fascinating photo for all the plumbing and detailing - however just curious - what is the purpose of the wooden shuttering over the rear of the cab?

Adrian,
You can see one of the locos I've already started has it too, I think it's probably just to allow for a larger coal load. I do need to investigate whether Aue shed perhaps gained a mechanical coal loader in the early seventies, that might have required a larger target than the comparatively small bunker hoppers on these locos.

Steph

 

[mickoo]

Fascinating photo for all the plumbing and detailing - however just curious - what is the purpose of the wooden shuttering over the rear of the cab?

More coal, it's attached to the hopper bunker and looks to be extended over the cab to maximise capacity.

I've heard them called 'greedy' boards before.

 

[mickoo]

Mick, that's perfect - the last of the three I need photos for and the view is not one I have - thank you!



Adrian,
You can see one of the locos I've already started has it too, I think it's probably just to allow for a larger coal load. I do need to investigate whether Aue shed perhaps gained a mechanical coal loader in the early seventies, that might have required a larger target than the comparatively small bunker hoppers on these locos.

Steph

You're welcome.

I'm sure there must be more, it's not a class I set my sights on but I'll keep an extra eye out as I trawl the web for more German photos, East and West; one can never have enough you know.....

 

[Steph Dale]

Hehe, that's true.

I've just had a quick spin through the rest of that photo collection; lots in Saxony, including Dresden and Zittau, so I'll have another dig through when I've got a spare six moments!

Steph

 

[AJC]

More coal, it's attached to the hopper bunker and looks to be extended over the cab to maximise capacity.

I've heard them called 'greedy' boards before.

Definitely for more coal. You see that sort of thing quite often in pictures if working industrial steam in the UK to allow for the inadequate bunkers fitted to most UK types. Going on how big that loco is it’s fair to call it under-bunkered, too. And like Mick, greedy boards would be the term I’ve heard. Seems to have been the usual term in road haulage, probably the cause of regular overloading...

Adam

 

[mickoo]

Definitely for more coal. You see that sort of thing quite often in pictures if working industrial steam in the UK to allow for the inadequate bunkers fitted to most UK types. Going on how big that loco is it’s fair to call it under-bunkered, too. And like Mick, greedy boards would be the term I’ve heard. Seems to have been the usual term in road haulage, probably the cause of regular overloading...

Adam

To be fair, when built, the coal capacity was probably adequate, they would of been short trip or yard engines.

In time trains got heavier and distances further, easily out stripping their capacity, or, did crews just get lazier fill once instead of twice

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

To be fair, when built, the coal capacity was probably adequate, they would of been short trip or yard engines.

In time trains got heavier and distances further, easily out stripping their capacity, or, did crews just get lazier fill once instead of twice

It appears this type of 'greedy board' modification was quite prevalent in the old Eastern Bloc to increase the coal bunker capacity. Another factor is they would not have the same access to the 'hard' coals of the West after 1945 and less so after 1961. The main 'hard' coal producers were the UK, France and West Germany. DDR only had lignite (brown coal) mines. There were a few 'hard' coal mines in Poland and what was Czechoslovakia.

And as Mick says the locos were used for services they were not originally designed for.

The quality of lignite is poor and does not have the carbon content as 'hard' coal. This would necessitate a greater amout to achieve a what an unmodified bunker of good quality coal could produce.

 

[michael080]

East German loco coal was sometimes called "potting soil".

Michael

 

[mickoo]

Some more for you.

DR 94 2035 (ex K.Sächs.Sts.E.B. XI HT; Hartmann 1918) Bw Zwickau

DR 94 2092 (ex Sächs.Sts.E.B. XI HT; Hartmann 1923) Bw Zwickau

DR 94 2114 (ex Sächs.Sts.E.B. XI HT; Hartmann 1923) Bw Zwickau

These are not shareable, but are downloadable.

There's 1600 + photos in this folder DRB/DB/DR/DB AG Dampflokomotiven (D) and it's arranged numerically, not chronologically like most folders on Flickr. the above are the only 94.20 on his pages but the rest of the pages hold some very nice DB and DDR steam images, enjoy.

 

[Steph Dale]

If this one has the same problem as the other two I will publish it...

Unfortunately, it does have the same problem as the other two:




Yep, you've got it; the wheels don't fit the chassis; there's an interference fit of something like 0.1mm, so I'm not forcing it as if they go in they certainly won't come back out again (0.004" is a good press fit!). On the other two the chassis blocks went back to DJH/Model Loco for re-machining, as a result of which they're actually a bit sloppy, which was a good thing as the relationship of the slots in the chassis to the etched coupling rods was best described as 'tentative' after they'd been re-machined. But they did run.

However, as hinted in my previous postings, I'm generally a bit cheesed off with the chassis of these locos and this will provide the impetus to get new chassis designed and built for all three of them. I'll re-use most of the parts, just not these machined brass chassis blocks. Or the coupling rods, or...

Steph

 

[Overseer]

Unfortunately, it does have the same problem as the other two:
View attachment 132798
View attachment 132799
View attachment 132800

Yep, you've got it; the wheels don't fit the chassis; there's an interference fit of something like 0.1mm, so I'm not forcing it as if they go in they certainly won't come back out again (0.004" is a good press fit!). On the other two the chassis blocks went back to DJH/Model Loco for re-machining, as a result of which they're actually a bit sloppy, which was a good thing as the relationship of the slots in the chassis to the etched coupling rods was best described as 'tentative' after they'd been re-machined. But they did run.

However, as hinted in my previous postings, I'm generally a bit cheesed off with the chassis of these locos and this will provide the impetus to get new chassis designed and built for all three of them. I'll re-use most of the parts, just not these machined brass chassis blocks. Or the coupling rods, or...

Steph

That would be nice with compensation or CSBs. Did they adjust the axle spacing or wheel size to fit the over scale flanges in? 1260 mm diameter wheels at 1400 centres wouldn't leave a lot of space.

 

[michael080]

Yep, you've got it; the wheels don't fit the chassis; there's an interference fit of something like 0.1mm, so I'm not forcing it as if they go in they certainly won't come back out again (0.004" is a good press fit!).

Steph,

looks like the chassis is painted. Removing the paint at the axle slots might just be enough.

Michael

 

[Steph Dale]

Fraser,
I can't remember what the trade off was between the wheel size and axle centres, but I'll have a measure up shortly to start sketching out the new chassis. I think I've worked out how to 'float' the gearbox, so I can decide on the practicalities of sprung/compensated/csb over the next few days I think.

Michael,
You have a point - and I'll try to remove the paint to see what happens, but there's much to be improved on these chassis, so I'm still going to replace them...!

Steph

 

[Steph Dale]

Weeeellllllllll, I've whipped out my nice shiny new set of Mitutoyo calipers and;

Fraser, the wheel centres are about right, they've been cunning and knocked about 1/3rd mm off the diameter of the wheel tread to get it to all work. So that's about a scale 30mm under size on new and well within turning limits.

Michael, I followed that by grabbing a 3mm reamer to get rid of the paint on the chassis. It worked and by applying about as much pressure as I thought just-about-sensible the wheels clicked in and turned - so the axle slots in the chassis have been 'keyholed'. There are a couple of nasty scores in the bearing surface of the chassis, so I'm 'done' with the chassis for sure.

I think I've got a weekend of Finney7 work this weekend, but I may get time to prep some sketches and perhaps rough out some of the CAD. It's a start...

Steph