Suburban non-corr. Coach livery 1960s

[Osgood]

I'm struggling to find much good material to help me with the following question:

How long would plain crimson livery have survived on GWR B Set coaches - Western or Birmingham areas?

Given that there was a wholesale change to lined maroon from 1957 on, applied when coaches came in for overhaul (how frequent might overhauls have been this era?) - is it feasible that some coaches remained crimson until the end - presumably 1966-8 for most coaches?

I guess I'm looking in the wrong places but seem to have exhausted the obvious online resources.

There was a nice colour photo on here looking down on Aberbeeg sidings with rakes of coaching stock, but I can't even find that now.

 

[Dan Randall]

You mean this one?....

In a previous post, "westerfan" says the picture was taken on 6th August 1958.


Regards

Dan

 

[Osgood]

That's it - many thanks Dan! I thought it was a later shot.

 

[SimonT]

When I consulted a GWR coach guru I was told that they are C66 and D117, built specifically for the valleys services. They certainly match the few drawings and photos that I have found. They are a slow burner project for the layout. What colour will I paint them for 1963? Bearing in mind that I will still be running a passenger service that had already been suspended, I am planning to use Rule 1 and paint them washed out scarlet. I'll consult my guru to see if I can get you a proper answer.
Simon

 

[Heather Kay]

I reckon Rule 1 would be apt. As non-corridor stock, they would have been unlined carmine from 1948 - depending on whether they went through shops after nationalisation. Maroon and gold-black-gold lining would have been applied if shopped post-1956. Stock on backwater lines would quite probably have survived until scrapping in unlined carmine.

 

[Osgood]

Thank you, Simon and Heather. I'm guessing many coaches on backwater services never received a thorough refurb at the works.

This is a topic which does not seem to have been well recorded (not the most glamorous of subjects I suppose) - the best source of evidence appears to be photographs of the era, which often show that 'anything goes'!

 

[AJC]

Thank you, Simon and Heather. I'm guessing many coaches on backwater services never received a thorough refurb at the works.

This is a topic which does not seem to have been well recorded (not the most glamorous of subjects I suppose) - the best source of evidence appears to be photographs of the era, which often show that 'anything goes'!

Not so, or at least, not on the Southern where what appears to have happened at Eastleigh and Lancing is that re varnishing was periodic on all types of coaches. One result was that quite a few non corridor vehicles can be shown never to have been repainted in crimson but just had the SR green rubbed down and tidied up.

The records when they survive are in private hands but Glen Woods on the SR coaching stock yahoo group has transcribed the surviving registers whic record attrntion to paint, trimming, running gear, etc. These show that everything was recalled but obviously main line coaches, running at higher speeds and greater milages came in more often for full repaints along with more mechanical attention. The projected life of secondary stock may also have been a factor: closure of the associated routes and dieselisation must have been taken into account.

This may explain why so much secondary Eastern Region and Western Region stock got so tatty. Imagine that a non corridor vehicle, say a 57' Collet in south Wales was repainted from GW colours in 1950 and was next due for repaint 8 years later, the replacement DMU was likely already built or at least planned. A revarnish would be more likely. A GER vehicle would likely have been life expired by '55...

Adam

 

[Osgood]

Thank you, Adam. I had not appreciated the widespread use on coaching stock of the technique of re-varnishing over existing paint, as opposed to a full re-paint.

There seems to be evidence on Eastern Region of the use of unlined maroon on non-corridor stock (Gresley teak and Thompson steel) - certainly in the modelling world - which is confusing me even more.
Despite perusing the lner forum I cannot yet find an answer to this one - I now have some s/h books on order which will hopefully contain colour evidence.

Tony