Tales from The Room of Doom. Dipping a toe in various bucolic backwaters.
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
Morning Steve.
Thank you. Regarding the Class 15, it's now running a Bachmann 36-568a 6 pin decoder via a Bachmann 8 pin to 6 pin harness. The decoder is actually made for Bachmann by Zimo. It runs extremly well, even without any further tinkering with CVs and such like.
Encouraged by this, I intend to replace this set up with a conventional Zimo 8 pin decoder. The Bachmann decoder will then be used in a Bachmann 03 for which it was originally intended and with which my other 03 runs very nicely.
It's all new to me but I'm enjoying finding my way though it is slowing progress on the layout itself !
Rob.
Thank you. Regarding the Class 15, it's now running a Bachmann 36-568a 6 pin decoder via a Bachmann 8 pin to 6 pin harness. The decoder is actually made for Bachmann by Zimo. It runs extremly well, even without any further tinkering with CVs and such like.
Encouraged by this, I intend to replace this set up with a conventional Zimo 8 pin decoder. The Bachmann decoder will then be used in a Bachmann 03 for which it was originally intended and with which my other 03 runs very nicely.
It's all new to me but I'm enjoying finding my way though it is slowing progress on the layout itself !
Rob.
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Still in shock at this latest turn of events. SheepBloke doing DCC. 
Hopefully though it will aid you getting some of the better running qualities you're after. Obviously won't sort out stuff catching, poor pickups and wheels not being quartered correctly but should wring the last ounce of slow running you want.
I do think though, to upset the purists, that you should fit a Pannier sound chip in the 15... Or perhaps getting a sheep bleat substituted for the diesel horn...
Hopefully though it will aid you getting some of the better running qualities you're after. Obviously won't sort out stuff catching, poor pickups and wheels not being quartered correctly but should wring the last ounce of slow running you want.
I do think though, to upset the purists, that you should fit a Pannier sound chip in the 15... Or perhaps getting a sheep bleat substituted for the diesel horn...
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
Morning Pencarrot.
Indeed. Like giving a monkey a machine gun but I can see the benefits. None of the previous layouts will be retro fitted with DCC though. I'm happy with control offered and the performance of the regular locos.
You're spot on mind you. Despite the assertions of certain individuals, it's not a magic wand and you need to start with a well running loco. It can improve the motor characteristics but it can also make them worse. The class 15 is a case in point. Wrong decoder actually made the start/stop worse.
And no............no more noise yet.....
Indeed. Like giving a monkey a machine gun but I can see the benefits. None of the previous layouts will be retro fitted with DCC though. I'm happy with control offered and the performance of the regular locos.
You're spot on mind you. Despite the assertions of certain individuals, it's not a magic wand and you need to start with a well running loco. It can improve the motor characteristics but it can also make them worse. The class 15 is a case in point. Wrong decoder actually made the start/stop worse.
And no............no more noise yet.....
steve50
Western Thunderer
It's a bit new to me too, only just finding out that one decoder doesn't suit all, especially in the budget range. That said I've put Hattons decoders in a couple of loco's and they're fine but the Zimo ones are superb.
I'm trying to get to grips with locos running at really different speeds on the same speed setting, if that makes sense!
I'm trying to get to grips with locos running at really different speeds on the same speed setting, if that makes sense!
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
Hi Steve,
Yep, with you on that but the layout is very small and simple, one engine in fumes (in the case of the diesels) so I never have to cope with more than one engine at a time. There is a reason for that........
But it's good fun finding out about it all....!
Rob.
Yep, with you on that but the layout is very small and simple, one engine in fumes (in the case of the diesels) so I never have to cope with more than one engine at a time. There is a reason for that........
But it's good fun finding out about it all....!
Rob.
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
Update on the Heljan Class 16 saga........
Pick ups/wheels etc checked and loco given time to run in. No change.
Each bogie/gearbox was stripped, any white grease removed and all then re-assembled with light oiling. Everything rotated freely. No change to the running.
Each bogie was then stripped and rolled about the place. Initially checked without worm gear in place. Free rotation but some expected slight resistance. Removal of gears and everything ran freely when gently pushed.
Re-assembled and each bogie was re-connected to the motor in turn. That is to say the loco was run with only one bogie connected at a time to the motor, then disconnected and the other bogie connected. No change.
Both bogies disconnected and the motor observed. It was somewhat sticky at low rpm with uneven rotation to start. One direction noticibly tighter at low rpm than the other.
Light oil was applied on the bearings and left to run on medium power but disconnected from the bogies for about 2hrs each direction.
Bogie reconnected. Smoother bonnet forwards but working cab first very uneven at low rpm smoothing out as the power was applied.
Conclusion.............
Replace motor. Problem is removing and replacing the flywheel/ integral plastic UJ assembly on the new motor......once I work out if I need a 43 or 48mm example or even a non-Heljan alternative if I can find a cylindrical equivalent with correct size shafts.
Only Heljan motors I've found online thus far are sans flywheels.
Gaugemaster ( spares distributor) show no spares for this model (or the Class 15 incidentally).
So it seems any replacing of the motor, either by way of a Heljan motor or otherwise has the same issues re flywheels etc.
The Mashima 1626 seems a good replacement but it has 2mm shafts and would need the flywheels opening up to accept, which I don't see as a drama, just time consuming.
The top speed of the loco is not a concern as my layouts are small, shunty types. It just needs to be smooth, slow and creepy.
Definitely worth doing but a post Christmas job methinks.........
Rob.
Pick ups/wheels etc checked and loco given time to run in. No change.
Each bogie/gearbox was stripped, any white grease removed and all then re-assembled with light oiling. Everything rotated freely. No change to the running.
Each bogie was then stripped and rolled about the place. Initially checked without worm gear in place. Free rotation but some expected slight resistance. Removal of gears and everything ran freely when gently pushed.
Re-assembled and each bogie was re-connected to the motor in turn. That is to say the loco was run with only one bogie connected at a time to the motor, then disconnected and the other bogie connected. No change.
Both bogies disconnected and the motor observed. It was somewhat sticky at low rpm with uneven rotation to start. One direction noticibly tighter at low rpm than the other.
Light oil was applied on the bearings and left to run on medium power but disconnected from the bogies for about 2hrs each direction.
Bogie reconnected. Smoother bonnet forwards but working cab first very uneven at low rpm smoothing out as the power was applied.
Conclusion.............
Replace motor. Problem is removing and replacing the flywheel/ integral plastic UJ assembly on the new motor......once I work out if I need a 43 or 48mm example or even a non-Heljan alternative if I can find a cylindrical equivalent with correct size shafts.
Only Heljan motors I've found online thus far are sans flywheels.
Gaugemaster ( spares distributor) show no spares for this model (or the Class 15 incidentally).
So it seems any replacing of the motor, either by way of a Heljan motor or otherwise has the same issues re flywheels etc.
The Mashima 1626 seems a good replacement but it has 2mm shafts and would need the flywheels opening up to accept, which I don't see as a drama, just time consuming.
The top speed of the loco is not a concern as my layouts are small, shunty types. It just needs to be smooth, slow and creepy.
Definitely worth doing but a post Christmas job methinks.........
Rob.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, your modelling really is top drawer, Thank you for sharing it
John
John
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob
In connection with the Cl.16 motor I've had a quick trawl on t'interweb and it appears the motor issue is a common affliction with the Heljan Cl 16.
From your description it sounds like the current motor has 1.5mm shafts.
If you're not adverse to messing around with motors one option is to repower using a Taff Vale 1227 flat can. This is available with 2mm or 1.5mm shafts. I've used Taff Vale motors in my O gauge stuff.
Having looked at a copy of the Cl.16 spares sheet the 1227 motor could be mounted on a lump of blu-tac or double sided sticky pads (which I have done in the past and still do). Once settled, blu-tac or double sided stick pads can be inserted in the top retainer which will hold the motor securely.
Keep us posted on your eventual solution.
In connection with the Cl.16 motor I've had a quick trawl on t'interweb and it appears the motor issue is a common affliction with the Heljan Cl 16.
From your description it sounds like the current motor has 1.5mm shafts.
If you're not adverse to messing around with motors one option is to repower using a Taff Vale 1227 flat can. This is available with 2mm or 1.5mm shafts. I've used Taff Vale motors in my O gauge stuff.
Having looked at a copy of the Cl.16 spares sheet the 1227 motor could be mounted on a lump of blu-tac or double sided sticky pads (which I have done in the past and still do). Once settled, blu-tac or double sided stick pads can be inserted in the top retainer which will hold the motor securely.
Keep us posted on your eventual solution.
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
John, you are most kind. Thank you. Rest assured, I will.
Hi Dave,
That's very useful, thank you. They do seem to have a reputation for self destruction, pretty much akin to the real thing.
Updates to follow.
Rob.
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
Perhaps of interest, this afternoon I fitted a decoder to a Hornby J15. Another DCC Concepts zen black decoder, seemingly all singing and dancing.
Same problem as the Class 15. Smooth running but abrupt stop/start.
Remove, insert an allegedly very basic Hornby decoder. Result. Nice gradual slowing to stop creepy, crawly start up and smooth running which is much more to one's liking.
Mmmm.......
Rob.
Same problem as the Class 15. Smooth running but abrupt stop/start.
Remove, insert an allegedly very basic Hornby decoder. Result. Nice gradual slowing to stop creepy, crawly start up and smooth running which is much more to one's liking.
Mmmm.......
Rob.