TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Hi Martyn
Thanks!
Loco was Heather's build though- she may be along soon........
Tim
Thanks!
Loco was Heather's build though- she may be along soon........
Tim
The Snapper's DCC Workshop - July 2023 Update - use threadmarks to find - Little & Large
- Thread starter TheSnapper
- Start date
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Hello all. Thanks to Tim for showing his workings. Not being all that electronically minded, it's very useful knowing someone who is!
Martyn, I have a build thread on the 2251: clickety-click-linky
The resin JLTRT use is, I believe, impregnated with glass to give it some strength. It does blunt drills eventually. I have had success with a Dremel and grinding disc, or sanding drum, in opening out areas such as fireboxes. It's messy, and potentially nasty, so I try not to do it indoors, or while breathing!
Martyn, I have a build thread on the 2251: clickety-click-linky
The resin JLTRT use is, I believe, impregnated with glass to give it some strength. It does blunt drills eventually. I have had success with a Dremel and grinding disc, or sanding drum, in opening out areas such as fireboxes. It's messy, and potentially nasty, so I try not to do it indoors, or while breathing!
SoundsLoco
Member
Mike,
There is no 5V option on the MX696S, but it is available on the MX696K and KV. (I know that's not much use in this case, but worth bearing in mind for future, perhaps).
I normally re-use the Heljan fan PCB. It has a small pot which can be used to get to a modest fan speed, then trim if necessay with CV60.
Although, when using Swiss Mapping, it is possible to pre-assign specific 'dimming' values for each individual Function Output. This can avoid the use of CV60 and the consequential need for dimming masks in CVs 114 and 152.
To assign an operating key to FO6 using Swiss Mapping is very straightforward.
Swiss Mapping requires you to first determine an unused SM group. There are 17 groups, each of 6 CVs following in sequence from CV430.
(Group 1 is CV430 to Cv435, Group 2 is CV436 to Cv441, and so on. Each CV in each group has a special function; for your simple on/off switching you will need to use only 3 of the 6 in whichever group you use).
Assuming that SM groups 1 -5 have been used for other functions, the first CV in SM Group 6 will be CV460.
(read your decoder to check that its value is currently 0 (zero) and if not use a different group which is free).
Choose the F key you would like to use and put its number as the new value in CV460 (e.g., if you wish to use F15 as that's the same key as the fan sound, say, then make CV460 = 15)
Then assign the Function Output to that F key:
CV462 = 6 (for FO6 in forward direction)
CV468 = 6 (for FO6 in reverse direction)
That's it.
All wired or harness fitted ZIMO decoders are equipped with shrink wrap insulation. I think they must have tested this system at some point as I've never had a heat related problem with any of the one's I've fitted. LOL.
Kind regards,
Paul
3 LINK
Western Thunderer
Good Evening Heather,
Thanks for the heads up, I am already an avid reader of yours when you post further instalments regarding the 2251, especially being that it’s next on my to do list.
Might sound cheeky but is there a chance of a short video clip, once all the electrickery has been done.
Regards,
Martyn.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Well, I am reliably informed I can run these models on my strictly DC setup, and some of the sound may kick in. On that basis, I doubt a video would help demonstrate much, sadly.
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
Hi Paul,
many thanks for your reply and explanation. Coincidentally, I had earmarked CV460/462/468 in my mind but it was where the 'power supply' lead should be connected that stopped me from carrying out the installation. Which + terminal should I use?
I had the loco running on the Club layout last night and was very impressed with the noise from the double sized Zimo sugar cube speaker that my friend had supplied.
regards
Mike
many thanks for your reply and explanation. Coincidentally, I had earmarked CV460/462/468 in my mind but it was where the 'power supply' lead should be connected that stopped me from carrying out the installation. Which + terminal should I use?
I had the loco running on the Club layout last night and was very impressed with the noise from the double sized Zimo sugar cube speaker that my friend had supplied.
regards
Mike
SoundsLoco
Member
Mike,
Use whichever of the +ve pads is most convenient, they are duplicates.
Kind regards,
Paul
Use whichever of the +ve pads is most convenient, they are duplicates.
Kind regards,
Paul
GW Barnum
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Request for Help!
Has anyone any ideas what this may have sounded like:
This is a customer commission which was largely scratch-built by David Amias, apart from the cab and firebox.
Cheers
Tim
Has anyone any ideas what this may have sounded like:
This is a customer commission which was largely scratch-built by David Amias, apart from the cab and firebox.
Cheers
Tim
GW Saddle Tank 2007
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
The GW Theme continues......
Although I prefer to install everything on the loco chassis, sometimes it is not possible.
On this model, there was no room in the frames due to the dummy inside motion etc.
Fortunately, the boiler was hollow enough to accommodate the decoder (Zimo MX645) & stay-alive capacitor (Digitrains “Zimo- SC68 equivalent”).
The capacitor was clear-shrink-wrapped and then wrapped together with the decoder with an oversize piece of black sheathing to form a double insulated package. The idea is to avoid any chance of shorting, as it would be loosely located in the boiler.
For the same reason, I wrapped some Kapton tape around the top of the motor
The only place for the Zimo cube speaker was behind the motor. I had to move the pinion gear temporarily to one side to fit it in. I used Araldite to fix it and it works well.
Final testing could be done with the decoder package resting on the dummy inside motion!
Although I prefer to install everything on the loco chassis, sometimes it is not possible.
On this model, there was no room in the frames due to the dummy inside motion etc.
Fortunately, the boiler was hollow enough to accommodate the decoder (Zimo MX645) & stay-alive capacitor (Digitrains “Zimo- SC68 equivalent”).
The capacitor was clear-shrink-wrapped and then wrapped together with the decoder with an oversize piece of black sheathing to form a double insulated package. The idea is to avoid any chance of shorting, as it would be loosely located in the boiler.
For the same reason, I wrapped some Kapton tape around the top of the motor
The only place for the Zimo cube speaker was behind the motor. I had to move the pinion gear temporarily to one side to fit it in. I used Araldite to fix it and it works well.
Final testing could be done with the decoder package resting on the dummy inside motion!
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Thanks John & Simon for your suggestions
John - I know you favour Zimo - Digitrains don't seem to have a project -have you used the YouChoos one? If so, is it OK?
Tim
John - I know you favour Zimo - Digitrains don't seem to have a project -have you used the YouChoos one? If so, is it OK?
Tim
John K
Western Thunderer
Hi Tim
I’m afraid I haven’t used the YouChoos sounds. You are correct that I use Zimo wherever possible. I have no Western engines, but a young friend has used the Truro from Olivia’s which comes on an ESU V4. BTW, Olivia’s also have a Dukedog listed which might be a better option Olivia's Steam Sound Functions. | Olivias Trains
Best
John
I’m afraid I haven’t used the YouChoos sounds. You are correct that I use Zimo wherever possible. I have no Western engines, but a young friend has used the Truro from Olivia’s which comes on an ESU V4. BTW, Olivia’s also have a Dukedog listed which might be a better option Olivia's Steam Sound Functions. | Olivias Trains
Best
John
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Like @Richard Carr here 7mm - Heljan Class 25/3 I have been working on a Green Heljan Class25/3 for “a customer”. I liked it so much that I bought one myself, but plumped for the factory weathered blue version, out of curiosity really…
Fitting the decoder
As Richard says the original PCB is fixed to a black plastic mounting plate.
There are holes located in the correct position for attaching an XL-size decoder, either ESU Loksound or Zimo. (There is also another set of holes which are perhaps for an L-size decoder, but I didn’t have one to hand, so I couldn’t validate this).
Again, as Richards points out, using an XL-size decoder, you cannot get the body back on properly if you retain the mounting plate it in this position. It fouls the roof, or the things attached to the roof, such as the fan assembly and the fan PCB.
My initial idea was to get the decoder to sit lower by removing about 2mm from the metal pots that support the mounting plate, using a piercing saw.
I then inverted the plate & removed the moulded-on collars for the screws from one face of the plate. I then created 6BA threads in the outer 4 holes and attached the decoder to the board using nylon screws.
However……….
This procedure turned out to be insufficient to allow the body to sit correctly with the decoder in situ. So with thinking cap on, I came up with the solution of moving the mounting plate off-centre, so that the decoder would sit between all obstructions in the roof-space.
New holes need to be drilled in the mounting plate for fastening to the chassis supports, and care had to taken to avoid blocking the holes for the body-mounting screws.
With hindsight, it may be that the first procedure to lower the decoder mounting plate may not be necessary, and that moving the decoder off-centre might provide sufficient clearance. I will try this first when I do my blue one, and report back….
Wiring
Lo & behold Heljan have at last used different coloured wires which makes things a bit easier to follow.
To tidy-up the wiring from the body to the chassis, I connected the common feed wires for the lights & fan together (3 into 1), soldered everything to a small piece of Veroboard, secured it to the roof with Black-Tak, and used a miniature 4-way connector betwixt body & chassis.
I didn’t do anything fancy with the lights, retaining the built-in switch for operating the red lights, as my “customer” uses some Lenz controllers with limited F-buttons.
However using my Lokprogrammer , I did a swap to activate the fan (wired to Aux3) whenever the Fan sound was switched on. I adjusted the fan rotation speed using the 5v output on the decoder and the potentiometer on the fan PCB
I blocked out the cab-illumination which is part of the headcode lighting; I can’t imagine this is prototypical:
Speakers
I considered fitting a speaker in the fuel tank, but couldn’t find a way to remove the cover. I also thought about fitting a speaker on the gearbox, as Richard did, but decided instead to go for 2 Zimo “Double-Dumbo” speakers in series to give 8 Ohms , which the XL decoders seem happier with.
Here's the completed installation:
The decoder used was an ESU Loksound XL with Class25 project from Lergomanbiffo (available from DC Kits - DC Kits - DE Videos)
Runs well, and sounds great - just like a 25!
Fitting the decoder
As Richard says the original PCB is fixed to a black plastic mounting plate.
There are holes located in the correct position for attaching an XL-size decoder, either ESU Loksound or Zimo. (There is also another set of holes which are perhaps for an L-size decoder, but I didn’t have one to hand, so I couldn’t validate this).
Again, as Richards points out, using an XL-size decoder, you cannot get the body back on properly if you retain the mounting plate it in this position. It fouls the roof, or the things attached to the roof, such as the fan assembly and the fan PCB.
My initial idea was to get the decoder to sit lower by removing about 2mm from the metal pots that support the mounting plate, using a piercing saw.
I then inverted the plate & removed the moulded-on collars for the screws from one face of the plate. I then created 6BA threads in the outer 4 holes and attached the decoder to the board using nylon screws.
However……….
This procedure turned out to be insufficient to allow the body to sit correctly with the decoder in situ. So with thinking cap on, I came up with the solution of moving the mounting plate off-centre, so that the decoder would sit between all obstructions in the roof-space.
New holes need to be drilled in the mounting plate for fastening to the chassis supports, and care had to taken to avoid blocking the holes for the body-mounting screws.
With hindsight, it may be that the first procedure to lower the decoder mounting plate may not be necessary, and that moving the decoder off-centre might provide sufficient clearance. I will try this first when I do my blue one, and report back….
Wiring
Lo & behold Heljan have at last used different coloured wires which makes things a bit easier to follow.
To tidy-up the wiring from the body to the chassis, I connected the common feed wires for the lights & fan together (3 into 1), soldered everything to a small piece of Veroboard, secured it to the roof with Black-Tak, and used a miniature 4-way connector betwixt body & chassis.
I didn’t do anything fancy with the lights, retaining the built-in switch for operating the red lights, as my “customer” uses some Lenz controllers with limited F-buttons.
However using my Lokprogrammer , I did a swap to activate the fan (wired to Aux3) whenever the Fan sound was switched on. I adjusted the fan rotation speed using the 5v output on the decoder and the potentiometer on the fan PCB
I blocked out the cab-illumination which is part of the headcode lighting; I can’t imagine this is prototypical:
Speakers
I considered fitting a speaker in the fuel tank, but couldn’t find a way to remove the cover. I also thought about fitting a speaker on the gearbox, as Richard did, but decided instead to go for 2 Zimo “Double-Dumbo” speakers in series to give 8 Ohms , which the XL decoders seem happier with.
Here's the completed installation:
The decoder used was an ESU Loksound XL with Class25 project from Lergomanbiffo (available from DC Kits - DC Kits - DE Videos)
Runs well, and sounds great - just like a 25!
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Having seen the 25/3 photos above is there space between the flywheel and bulkhead in which to locate and lower the decoder in the model releasing the space above the motor for a larger speaker?
Also make you wonder why they didn't combine the fan, it's motor and PCB into one unit to save space.
Is it programmed to run randomly with sound after the loco has been idling for a period then switch off (similar to a car radiator fan) without the use of a function button?
Also make you wonder why they didn't combine the fan, it's motor and PCB into one unit to save space.
Is it programmed to run randomly with sound after the loco has been idling for a period then switch off (similar to a car radiator fan) without the use of a function button?
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave
............is there space between the flywheel and bulkhead in which to locate and lower the decoder in the model releasing the space above the motor for a larger speaker?[/QUOTE]
No there isn't:
Also make you wonder why they didn't combine the fan, it's motor and PCB into one unit to save space.
Er, yes....!
Is it programmed to run randomly with sound after the loco has been idling for a period then switch off (similar to a car radiator fan) without the use of a function button?
I haven't set this up, but I suppose it could be done. Not sure if the fan sound is a designated Random sound, but I might investigate this with my own model, when I get around to it.
Cheers
Tim
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
So, how’s everybody doing?
It’s been quite a while since I posted to this thread – over a year actually – but I’ve been busy installing 50+ sound decoders in various models for several people.
The most memorable was tackling the daunting task of handling the Armstrong 4-4-0 shown here on Malcolm Mitchell’s website.
Malcolm Mitchell's "A" Shop
An exquisite model superbly built, and with specific instructions on how to separate body from chassis, and subsequent re-assembly.
Being forced to stay indoors in the current situation, I’ve also been catching-up on some general modelling and finishing off a few things. For instance:
Repainted a poor-condition second-hand Parkside Blue-spot Fish Van as a later SPV van.
Painted a Connoisseur BR Brake Van, built by the late Clive Neale, in Grey (still unfinished - needs weathering etc)
Decorated my new “Triple Grey” Heljan Class37:
I am now waiting for the decoder to be delivered (a Zimo699KV), but in advance, I have installed a large Tang Band T1-1931S speaker.
These monsters – the main body is about 4” long - need to be well anchored down due to the low-frequency vibrations produced.
Therefore, I screw them to a strip of wood (nicely inert MDF) which is fixed to the chassis with Devcon 2-Ton epoxy adhesive.
Obviously, the underside of the loco tanks is removed to let all the lovely growl out!
I have “customised” my pair of Heljan “Now-Green” Class 20’s
“Customised” means I have removed one of the motors from each and installed a largish Tang Band T1-1925S speaker in its place over the front bogies:
With just one motor, we can get away with a “Standard” size decoder – there’s hardly room for an XL-size decoder (eg: Zimo 699) anyway as the body is too narrow, and vertical mounting would be necessary.
An LS-size one with adapter board (eg: Zimo696KS) will just fit – I’ve done one for a customer - but I decided to go for a Zimo 644D 21-pin decoder with ADPLU adapter board instead.
This increases the capability to 1.8 Amps continuous, as opposed to 1.2 amps with an MX645, and everything is wired to the board, rather than directly to the decoder.
It’s a bit fiddly and looks rather untidy, but it works!
Nowadays, I prefer to anchor leads from pickups, motor & lighting etc to a piece of copper-clad strip, as see above, rather than have flying leads directly onto the decoder.
By the way, “Now-Green” means because originally, they were blue.
I got them from Hattons at a special price, then advertised on the 0 Gauge Guild website for a body-swap.
After about 3 months I had given up hope, and actually contacted Paul Moore for a repaint quotation.
However, out-of-the-blue, a chap from Wakefield contacted me and after a few phone conversations and e-mails with pictures etc., we made the exchange.
I have now blown the dust off my part-built JLTRT Class24, which I bought in 2016.
I built the bogies & drive-train some time ago, settling for Delrin chain after trying toothed-belt drive (M&M), which I found difficult to set-up to my satisfaction, bulky and ultimately too noisy.
As it has 2 x Maxon motors and no lights etc, I will probably use the Zimo MX644 + ADAPLU Interface board combination, as in the Class 20’s.
So, watch this space!
Tim
It’s been quite a while since I posted to this thread – over a year actually – but I’ve been busy installing 50+ sound decoders in various models for several people.
The most memorable was tackling the daunting task of handling the Armstrong 4-4-0 shown here on Malcolm Mitchell’s website.
Malcolm Mitchell's "A" Shop
An exquisite model superbly built, and with specific instructions on how to separate body from chassis, and subsequent re-assembly.
Being forced to stay indoors in the current situation, I’ve also been catching-up on some general modelling and finishing off a few things. For instance:
Repainted a poor-condition second-hand Parkside Blue-spot Fish Van as a later SPV van.
Painted a Connoisseur BR Brake Van, built by the late Clive Neale, in Grey (still unfinished - needs weathering etc)
Decorated my new “Triple Grey” Heljan Class37:
I am now waiting for the decoder to be delivered (a Zimo699KV), but in advance, I have installed a large Tang Band T1-1931S speaker.
These monsters – the main body is about 4” long - need to be well anchored down due to the low-frequency vibrations produced.
Therefore, I screw them to a strip of wood (nicely inert MDF) which is fixed to the chassis with Devcon 2-Ton epoxy adhesive.
Obviously, the underside of the loco tanks is removed to let all the lovely growl out!
I have “customised” my pair of Heljan “Now-Green” Class 20’s
“Customised” means I have removed one of the motors from each and installed a largish Tang Band T1-1925S speaker in its place over the front bogies:
With just one motor, we can get away with a “Standard” size decoder – there’s hardly room for an XL-size decoder (eg: Zimo 699) anyway as the body is too narrow, and vertical mounting would be necessary.
An LS-size one with adapter board (eg: Zimo696KS) will just fit – I’ve done one for a customer - but I decided to go for a Zimo 644D 21-pin decoder with ADPLU adapter board instead.
This increases the capability to 1.8 Amps continuous, as opposed to 1.2 amps with an MX645, and everything is wired to the board, rather than directly to the decoder.
It’s a bit fiddly and looks rather untidy, but it works!
Nowadays, I prefer to anchor leads from pickups, motor & lighting etc to a piece of copper-clad strip, as see above, rather than have flying leads directly onto the decoder.
By the way, “Now-Green” means because originally, they were blue.
I got them from Hattons at a special price, then advertised on the 0 Gauge Guild website for a body-swap.
After about 3 months I had given up hope, and actually contacted Paul Moore for a repaint quotation.
However, out-of-the-blue, a chap from Wakefield contacted me and after a few phone conversations and e-mails with pictures etc., we made the exchange.
I have now blown the dust off my part-built JLTRT Class24, which I bought in 2016.
I built the bogies & drive-train some time ago, settling for Delrin chain after trying toothed-belt drive (M&M), which I found difficult to set-up to my satisfaction, bulky and ultimately too noisy.
As it has 2 x Maxon motors and no lights etc, I will probably use the Zimo MX644 + ADAPLU Interface board combination, as in the Class 20’s.
So, watch this space!
Tim
Last edited: