Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Heather Kay]

The tower also contained water treatment equipment. I remember a hot summer's day in the 1990s with Best Beloved exploring the remains of the Castlethorpe water trough treatment plant/tower. I’m sure we took photos, but don’t ask me to find them!

 

[mickoo]

Spent many an enjoyable summers eve after training school around Wolverton and Castlethorpe in the mid 80's, there was just enough of the rotting steps left up the outside of the tower to gain access; sheer lunacy when I think back, but hey, when you're young you're invincible.

I wished I'd stayed longer instead of rushing back to the pub for beers with class mates.

 

[Heather Kay]

sheer lunacy when I think back

We didn’t dare climb up any steps - and it’s now so far back I can’t recall if the steps were even there at the time!

If I ever find the photos, I’ll share. They must be filed somewhere in the house. Oh, to be properly organised.

 

[Heather Kay]

I only been and done and found 'em.



I won’t hijack Brian's thread, but if the WT massive would like to see them I can scan them properly and post a new thread.

 

[AJC]

Interesting brakevan at Bushey. I can't make out the number, but the legend 'Not in common use' which I think is an LMS dia. 1658 and unusual, because it lacks a ducket, though the handrails and bracing suggest the presence of one - like this: LMS Brake Vans ZTO ZSO ZFQ RHQ RFQ | DM281829 diag 1658

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

I won’t hijack Brian's thread, but if the WT massive would like to see them I can scan them properly and post a new thread.

Great pictures, Heather. Please hijack away if you believe the pics to be pertinent to this thread, which I believe they are. It's a remarkable survivor, even if derelict, in the 1990s when you consider steam finished in 1968. But the early diesels had scoops, did they not, for topping up the steam heat boilers?

Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

It's a remarkable survivor

I checked on Google Maps and I see no sign of the structure any more. I suppose it was left to crumble as it was far enough from the lineside to pose no real danger.

I will scan the photos - there’s quite a few, mostly inside the shed - but I think it may be better in a thread of its own.

 

[mickoo]

Great pictures, Heather. Please hijack away if you believe the pics to be pertinent to this thread, which I believe they are. It's a remarkable survivor, even if derelict, in the 1990s when you consider steam finished in 1968. But the early diesels had scoops, did they not, for topping up the steam heat boilers?

Brian

As far as I know, only Deltics and Class 40 had water scoops, I've seen photos in the distant past of 40's picking up water but never a Deltic.

 

[mickoo]

I checked on Google Maps and I see no sign of the structure any more. I suppose it was left to crumble as it was far enough from the lineside to pose no real danger.

I will scan the photos - there’s quite a few, mostly inside the shed - but I think it may be better in a thread of its own.

It's still on my browser but I've no idea what date this shot was taken.



But here's a drone photo taken late 2020 from Google maps sight seeing images.

 

[Heather Kay]

Ah! Memory fade. I was looking to the north of the old station. It was to the south! It looks like the tower is still there, albeit the worse for wear.

 

[oldravendale]

What a remarkable survivor! I wonder how many people walking past it (I assume that's a foot path alongside) have any idea of it's origins. It's one of the things not replicated on our heritage railways - and I'd guess it's unlikely to be. I don't think there are any which are long enough to make such a thing in any way useful, although it'd be spectacular. I suspect the heritage railway speed limit would mitigate against it anyway.

Brian

 

[James Fibbens]

As far as I know, only Deltics and Class 40 had water scoops, I've seen photos in the distant past of 40's picking up water but never a Deltic.

There are one or two pics of Deltics picking up from troughs, e.g.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899381779525750785

, and I dare say there are probably a few more in books, given the amount of Deltic literature that has been published over the years.

Some years ago I set up a group on Flickr, "British locomotives on water troughs", as I though it would be interesting to see the variety of locos and troughs that used to exist, as being born in 1976 I missed all this of course. A couple of 40s in there amongst the steam, with copious overflow apparently an issue. There is also one pic in the group of DELTIC on Langley troughs, albeit seemingly not 'dipping' at the time.

There is some in-cab footage of DELTIC on the ECML here, which mentions taking on water from troughs at around the 03:08 mark, albeit it looks like the second man just presses a button rather than winding the scoop in and out by hand as he would be doing on an A4 etc.

Sorry for the further thread hijack from the wonderful photos.

James

 

[Mike W]

A couple of decades ago local people tried to get the Castlethorpe water softening tower listed, but I believe they were unsuccessful.

Mike

 

[mickoo]

Well that's a first for me and I do have a lot of Deltic literature, printed and digital. Slightly off topic and a really long shot but I'm trying to find one on Kings X turntable, cannot find a definitive date when it was removed, filled in and the tracks extended, but there may have been a few months where Deltics used it.

I did think I'd found evidence in one of Brians recent Kings X shots, sadly the Deltics on shed in the background were more interesting than 60500, but it was not to be, the date is too late and there's clearly three sidings there in the photos.

Nice Flickr collection, some Castlethorpe ones I've not seen before too

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A change of region now with E4 0-6-2T 32515 seen here at Hove Station on empty stock on 12th July 1960. It was shedded at Brighton which was it's final allocation being withdrawn from there in May 1961. (SLS). It was disposed of at Ashford Works in July the same year.

Classic BR(S) and SR. Patch repair on the top half of the coal bunker and the train staff holder bracket used as the coal hammer holder.

 

[oldravendale]

So much to talk about....

All the stuff about the water troughs, softeners and diesels with scoops. (Seems a recipe for disiaster with all the electrical gear). Thanks Heather and Mick and for a stunning photo of a Deltic, James. I would have thought that was a prime structure for listing, Mike. After all, how many more can there be?

Thanks, Adam, for the stuff about the brake van. And for the unanswered questions.

Finally, Dave. As ever much appreciate your observations.

An H Class 0-4-4T No 31322 at Hove Station on a Horsham-Brighton Pull Push on 12th July 1960. It was allocated to Brighton at the time, moving to Tonbridge in February 1961 where it was withdrawn in April. (SLS). It was scrapped at Ashford Works by the end of June. (Rail UK).

I'd very much welcome some info about that coaching stock - the coach next to the loco looks positively ancient.



An E4 0-6-2T No 32495 at Hove Station on a goods train on 12th July 1960. It was at it's final allocation, Brighton where it was withdrawn in September. (SLS) It had been scrapped at Ashford Works by the end of the month. (Rail UK).



Now the East Coast Main Line at Potters Bar with A3 60065 Knight of Thistle (we've seen it on these pages previously) on an up passenger and V2 60924 on a freight passing one another at Potters Bar on 9th July 1960. 60065 was a Grantham engine and hopped around a bit before ending it's days at New England where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (Trough deflectors were not fitted until the end of November 1961). (SLS). It then went to A King & Sons at Norwich where it was scrapped in August 1964. (Rail UK). The V2 must have been something of a rarity as it was allocated to Inverness in 1960 although it moved to Doncaster in June 1962 and was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works in November 1963. (BR Database).



....and another of V2 60924 from the same series.



Brian

 

[John Duffy]

"The V2 must have been something of a rarity as it was allocated to Inverness in 1960 although it moved to Doncaster in June 1962 and was withdrawn in September 1963"

This is definitely not correct. According to BR Database it was allocated to 32A Inverness but this is clearly wrong 32A was Norwich. It is listed in the Ian Allan books from 1958 as being 34E which would be New England. Both make more sense. I suspect this is simply a typo and the engine is local to the south east of England. Its only connection to Scotland would be delivering the up fish from Aberdeen.

John

 

[Martin Shaw]

Willie Yeadon confirms John's correction, the loco was new to Kings X in 11/41, New England in 11/42 and 18 years later shows the high standards reached by cleaners at it home shed, the staining shows a leaking washout plug and two joints on the vacuum ejector exhaust, so the boilersmith and fitters aren't doing much better. Even allowing for it's allocation this is pretty poor for ECML sheds at this date as Tim's photos have generally shown.
Martin

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
The two leading coaches are a BR(SR) P&P set for the series 600-619 formed in 1959/60, they were fairly spread around the region so which one is difficult. They were conversions of Maunsell open seconds and composite brakes, which had the most work done in converting it to a driving trailer. In Sept 1960 sets 600-2/4-7/16-19 were allocated to London Central District so I guess it's one of those. The coach next the engine is a former SECR 10 compartment all third of 1921/2 which were of three distinct body patterns, the one shown is of the contractor built variant, note that it has the half square commode handle, the middle batch had matchboarding and the last lot has straight LCDR commode handles. Lancing converted 12 of these to P&P vehicles early in 1958, three went into sets, the remainder became loose strengthening vehicles on the Brighton/Guildford/Horsham services. I can identify 8 of these and for reasons outlined above the coach pictured is either 1056,1073,1081 or the unidentified one. 4 out of 61 isn't bad and Scotland won today, life's good.
Martin

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I see the two photos taken at Hove are on the same day (12/07/1960) as the ones taken in Brighton in post #1501.

In the background of the E4 photo is a parked Mk1 coaching set with cantrail destination boards. Central section trains did not carry these except the Brighton Belle which was 'shedded' at Preston Park depot and possibly the Victoria-Newhaven Harbour boat train.

I suspect the the Mk1 set is parked here ready to form either an ECS working to Brighton (to be attached to one of the Hastings-Brighton-Southampton-Bristol-Cardiff/Swansea inter-regional trains) or to Hastings to form one of these trains. Only a WTT would confirm this. Possibly the reason it is here at Hove is to avoid using up valuable carriage siding space at the electric train sheds near Preston Park where the services are more intense as there were only four of these inter-regional trains a day.

On the other hand I could be completely wrong and it could be the Newhaven Boat Train stock waiting to be hauled to Newhaven Harbour to form the daily 4.14pm Victoria train. This is possible as these Hove photos could have been taken before those in Brighton (post #1501) being taken around 12 noon to 3.41pm. Again a WTT could confirm this. The service was: Victoria dep 8.50am - Newhaven Harbour arr 10.05 am and the return Newhaven Harbour dep 4.14 pm - Victoria arr 5.28 pm so the coaching stock would require a four to five hour layover.