Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[John Ross]

The containers on Conflats behind Britannia 70046 Anzac, seem to be ten of the forty light alloy BA containers built to D3/075 at the end of 1961. They differed from earlier designs by having two lifting brackets at the bottom of the sides, instead of slinging points at the edge of the roof. Despite the flat roof, they could not be stacked, which may have led to their short life (c. ten years).
Behind them, there is what looks like a Stanier LMS brake van.
Perhaps the brake van in the consist is to make it easier to split the container wagons from the rest of the train, especially as the BA containers began the "Speed the freight" (later Speedfreight) service of the LMR, and carried this branding. The official photo of the early livery also indicates on which route the freight is to be sped - London to, er, Manchester.

A good percentage of the alloy containers migrated North and spent the rest of their working lives transporting barrels of whisky from Elgin to Glasgow. The containers never left the wagons they were mounted on it was the side doors that were useful as they opened far wider than that on a standard 12-Ton van. They disappeared from this traffic in the mid 1970s replaced by other non standard 20-Ton containers that again never left the wagons they were mounted, just used as vans.

 

[oldravendale]

Barry and John. Thanks for yours about those containers. That's an interesting story to add to the file. Thanks too, Barry, for identifying the locations of those two photos. As you'll have noticed from my accompanying commentary I was unhappy about the location being given as Brighton.

This photo has a particular poignancy for me - it was one of the last photos Tim asked me to print for him before he died. It's Black 5 44765 on the 5.5pm Northampton train at Euston on 25th April 1962. It was a Crewe North engine from new, moving to Crewe South in June 1965 where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's, Great Bridge, where it was scrapped in March 1968. (BR Database). That looks like a Fairburn 2-6-4T centre right and a class 25 extreme right.



Fairburn 2-6-4T 42066 on a down Bletchley train at North Wembley although I'm suspicious that this may be Headstone Lane on 25th April 1962. It had been a Willesden engine since March and then, as so many did, moved from shed to shed, ending up at Low Moor on the ER in June 1967 where it was withdrawn in September. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in February 1968. (BR Database)



Another at the same location and on the same date. Black 5 45305 on a down fitted freight. In March 1962 it was added to the Willesden allocation, moving around many sheds on the LMR and ending up at Lostock Hall in May 1968 where it was withdrawn at the end of steam in August. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to Drapers at Hull but was the last of 743 locos going to the yard for scrap so the owner, Albert Draper, made the decision to preserve it. It's currently undergoing overhaul on the GCR. (Preserved British Steam Locomotives).



71000 Duke of Gloucester on a Carlisle arrival at Euston on 25th April 1962. It had been a Crewe North engine since 1955 and was withdrawn in November 1962 going to Woodham's at Barry for scrap. It was one of the first "impossible" restorations eventually steaming at the Great Central Railway and its history thereafter is well documented elsewhere.







Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Fairburn 2-6-4T 42066 on a down Bletchley train at North Wembley although I'm suspicious that this may be Headstone Lane on 25th April 1962. It had been a Willesden engine since March and then, as so many did, moved from shed to shed, ending up at Low Moor on the ER in June 1967 where it was withdrawn in September. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in February 1968. (BR Database)

Your suspicions are correct - it is Headstone Lane.

 

[oldravendale]

David. Thank you again. That's now about 100:1 but in your favour!

9F 92083 on a down ore hoppers train (looking new!) from the bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. It was a Wellingborough loco at the time and then moved around the WCML sheds ending up at Birkenhead Mollington Sreet in June 1965 where it was withdrawn in February 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Drapers in Hull in July 1967. (BR Database).



Black 5 45050 on a down extra from a bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. One of those buildings on the bridge was our coal merchant, Wallace Spiers, where my late father worked for a bit after being demobbed, as he used to say, before he got "a proper job". I remember it had a huge chunk of coal outside which it had won in some sort of competition. 45050 had been a Rugby engine since September 1961, then went to Northampton and Chester, finally reaching Stoke in October 1964 where it was withdrawn in August 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohens, Kettering, in February 1968. (BR Database).



Unidentified double headed Black 5s on a down fitted freight from a bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962.



An unidentified Jubilee on an up fitted freight from a bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962.



Royal Scot 46136 The Border Regiment on a down relief to Liverpool from a bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. This was previously in post #1499. It belonged to Crewe North at the time and, after passing through a number of sheds ended it's days at Carlisle Upperby being withdrawn at the end of March 1963. (BR Database). It was disposed of at Crewe Works in April 1964. (Rail UK)



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.

I think 45050 is actually heading north on a down train, judging by the LU track to the left?
Great photos, though.
Dave,

 

[Dog Star]

9F 92083 on a down ore hoppers train (looking new!) from the bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962.

Sorry Brian, those wagons look just like the LMSR 40T coal hoppers for taking fuel to Stonebridge Park power station... the first of those wagons was built in 1929 so doing well for you to consider that they were "looking new".

There is a decent write up on the hoppers here.

regards, Graham

 

[LarryG]

"This is a nominally LMS loco which never spent any time on the LMS." Gresley, Thompson, Bulleid and Hawksworth barely shine in my view. One wonders how these three companies and their BR regions would have survived had the designs of Fairburn, Ivatt and Riddles not come to the rescue.

 

[simond]

I presume the designs of Churchward and Collet would have come to the rescue....

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Hello,
One thing I really enjoy about this thread (a Resource, if I may.. ) is that a high number of Tim's photos are of trains in the landscape. Rather than the "fill the frame 3/4 loco view". The other thing I enjoy is the additional info that comes to light from the attendant throng. Those alloy containers being a case in point...

Thank you @oldravendale for doing all that you do.

Cheers

Jan

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

9F 92083 on a down ore hoppers train (looking new!) from the bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. It was a Wellingborough loco at the time and then moved around the WCML sheds ending up at Birkenhead Mollington Sreet in June 1965 where it was withdrawn in February 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Drapers in Hull in July 1967. (BR Database).

This and the others taken with the sub-station on the left are looking towards Euston and is just north of Northwick Park on the north side of the Met & GC lines seen in post #2573. The bridge in the background carries the Met & GC lines - Baker Street and Marylebone to the left and Harrow on the Hill to the right.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

"This is a nominally LMS loco which never spent any time on the LMS." Gresley, Thompson, Bulleid and Hawksworth barely shine in my view. One wonders how these three companies and their BR regions would have survived had the designs of Fairburn, Ivatt and Riddles not come to the rescue.

I presume the designs of Churchward and Collet would have come to the rescue....

Interesting, I think the Southern would have survived without Fairburn, Ivatt and Riddles designs if two major events hadn't intervened - WWII and nationalisation (with the latter's internal railway divisions and politics).

It would appear the Southern were more forward thinking as from what I have read the plan under Bulleid, HA Walker and later E Missenden was to reduce their steam locomotive classes to around 4 types - mainly for their outlying Western Division lines while they progressed with electrification of the rest the system. Added to which the Southern had already developed main line electric locomotives and were in the process of developing main line diesel locomotives for the Western Division main line services.

 

[oldravendale]

Dave. Thank you. You are, of course quite correct. The commentary preceding the photo has been changed accordingly.

Thanks for yours about the hoppers, Graham. They don't look sufficiently battered to have been carrying coal for so long.

Larry, Simon and Yorkshire Dave. I may be missing the point here, but what about the Castles, 94XX and 15XX tanks, J72s, A1s and even West Countries/Battle of Britains to name but a few of the classes built after 1947? I agree that a few of the Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks were exceptional in that they never left the "foreign" region to which they were delivered, but the Fairburn tanks were all repatriated. There were pannier tanks on the LMS and Southern for example, so not all the foreign motive power was necessarily Ivatt. The Riddles locos were what we now know as Standards, so intended to work on all regions and were, on the whole, based around LMS designs but this was, in part, down to familiarity with the LMS designs and a bit of political chicanery.

Jan. Thanks so much for your kind comments. This is a labour of love, and I'm fulfilling one of Tim's last wishes. I have a great deal of enjoyment from providing them as a resource and I too greatly value the corrections and discussions which occur from time to time.

Yorkshire Dave. Thanks for refining the location so descriptively. It's much appreciated.

An unidentified Black 5 Carrying reporting number 1A18 on an up special from the bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962 in the location so eloquently described above by Yorkshire Dave.



Royal Scot 46127 Old Contemptibles on an up relief for the Emerald Isle Express from the bridge south of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. I'm part way through a stalled build of this loco from a JLTRT kit. Somehow life and building a signal gantry has got in the way. In April 1962 46127 was a Crewe North engine, moving to Carlisle Upperby in early May where it was withdrawn in December. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in early May 1963. (Rail UK). Note the Class 501 EMU on the up DC line.



Another unidentifed Black 5 on an up semi-fast train on 19th April 1962. The location is given as the bridge north of Kenton Station but I believe this is actually looking towards the park known as "Kenton Rec" just south of Harrow and Wealdstone where there was and probably still is a footbridge over the WCML. I remember it well, it was here that I had my one and only siting of 46220, Coronation.



Royal Scot 46168 The Girl Guide on a down train again allegedly at the bridge north of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962 but again I think this is from the bridge at the south end of Kenton Rec. 46168 was allocated to Springs Branch, Wigan, where it was withdrawn in early May 1964. (SLS). It was despatched at Crewe Works at the end of August. (Rail UK).



Alleged to be Jubilee 45637 Windward Islands on an up relief allegedly at the bridge north of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962 but again, I suspect, at the bridge adjacent to Kenton Rec which is on the right of the photo, behind the spindly trees and shrubs. However, the loco must be considered unidentified as Windward Islands was the Jubilee piloting the down express which ran in to the wreckage at the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster of 8th October 1952. Living quite locally I remember the incident quite well. There were a number of railwaymen living close to where my wife lived with her parents, in fact one lived next door, and he was among the number of fatalities among them.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Just to confirm the locations of the latest set.

Royal Scot 46127 Old Contemptibles on an up relief for the Emerald Isle Express from the bridge north of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962. I'm part way through a stalled build of this loco from a JLTRT kit. Somehow life and building a signal gantry has got in the way. In April 1962 46127 was a Crewe North engine, moving to Carlisle Upperby in early May where it was withdrawn in December. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in early May 1963. (Rail UK). Note the Class 501 EMU on the up DC line

This one is also from the footbridge south of Kenton station as the previous photo. Kenton station is in the background on the left and the Met and GC lines are behind the photographer. The footbridge links Northwick Avenue and The Ridgeway/Draycott Road.

Another unidentifed Black 5 on an up semi-fast train on 19th April 1962. The location is given as the bridge north of Kenton Station but I believe this is actually looking towards the park known as "Kenton Rec" just south of Harrow and Wealdstone where there was and probably still is a footbridge over the WCML. I remember it well, it was here that I had my one and only siting of 46220, Coronation.

Yes, it's Kenton Recreation Ground, looking north. The footbridge is north of Kenton station and links Elmwood Avenue/Bonnersfield Lane/ Francis Road to Carlton Road and the recreation ground. The two following photos: Royal Scot 46168 The Girl Guide (looking south) and Alleged to be Jubilee 45637 Windward Islands (looking north) were also taken at the same location.

 

[Dog Star]

Thanks so much for your kind comments. This is a labour of love, and I'm fulfilling one of Tim's last wishes. I have had a great deal of enjoyment from providing them as a resource and I too greatly value the corrections and discussions which occur from time to time.

Over 2, 5000 posts in just over three years is the measure of the interest in what Brian has given us and of the effort that Brian has taken to present a truly outstanding record of one man's life long passion for steam. I am convinced that (the late) Cynric would have approved in spades. Thank you Brian and keep on keeping on.

 

[oldravendale]

My apologies for the delay in publishing the next post. I needed to do some house keeping and update all the records with the recent additional information which took me rather longer than expected.

David. Yours is exactly the additional and confirmatory data these photos need. Please keep 'em coming.

Thank you, Dog Star, for your kind comments. Thanks too for all the "Likes" against your post. The use being made of these photos and the enjoyment they clearly give to our steam enthusiasts makes it all so worth while.

Princess Coronation 46236 City of Bradford on an up Carlisle train from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. We've seen this loco before in post #1493. 46236 was a Carlisle Upperby engine at the time, moving to Carlisle Kingmoor in November 1962 from where it was withdrawn in March 1964. (SLS and BR Database). It went to Crewe Works for disposal where it was scrapped by the end of April 1964. (Rail UK)



Princess 46206 Princess Marie Louise on a down Birmingham & Wolverhampton train from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. It had been a Camden engine since January and was withdrawn from there in November. (SLS). It was scrapped in October 1962 at Crewe Works. (BR Database). Note the 1938 stock Bakerloo Line tube train on the extreme right.

Edit. The dates of withdrawal and scrapping appear to have been transposed. Rail UK advises the loco was withdrawn in October 1962 and scrapped in November.



Royal Scot 46110 Grenadier Guardsman on a down relief to Liverpool from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. It belonged to Edge Hill at the time and moved to Carlisle Kingmoor in July 1963 where it was withdrawn in February 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at J McWilliams, Shettleston by the end of December. (Rail UK).



An unidentified Britannia on an up special train at Headstone Lane on 19th April 1962.



Princess Coronation 46229 Duchess of Hamilton on an up express from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. We saw this in post #2540 and before that in post #228. At the time of this photo it was an Edge Hill loco and was withdrawn in February 1964. Its history thereafter is well documented elsewhere.



Princess 46209 Princess Beatrice on a down relief Blackpool train at Headstone Lane on 19th April 1962. This was most recently in post #2528. 46209 was a Camden engine - in fact Camden was it's final shed - and was withdrawn from there in September 1962. (SLS). It ended up at Crewe and was scrapped in November. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Princess 46206 Princess Marie Louise on a down Birmingham & Wolverhampton train from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. It had been a Camden engine since January and was withdrawn from there in November. (SLS). It was scrapped in October 1962 at Crewe Works. (BR Database).

Of more interest to me is the northbound Bakerloo Line train on the right .

An unidentified Britannia on an up special train from the bridge north of Kenton Station on 19th April 1962.

This is Headstone Lane. Easy to get confused by the building on the left looking like the sub-station at Northwick Park.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks so much, Dave. I should certainly have looked more closely at the photo at Headstone lane because the location is obvious (Tim had shown the location for all these as the bridge south of Kenton Station) and I'd simply failed to note the tube train on the extreme right of the photo of 46206. I've included both these corrections in the original script accompanying the photos.

A nice sequence here of 14XX 0-4-2T 1421 on the 1.54 train to Bourne End on 14th April 1962. There's a "Maidenhead" board on the rear of the coach. Home shed at the time was Reading, thence to Exeter in November, then Gloucester Barnwood a year later before withdrawal in December 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Birds, Risca, Newport, by the end of May 1964. (Rail UK).











King 6026 King John on the up Cambrian Coast Express stated to be at Saunderton but did the CCE route take the train passed Saunderton? on 14th April 1962. Seen previously in post #1810 6026 King John was an Old Oak Common engine withdrawn in September 1962, (SLS) thence to Swindon Works where it was scrapped by the end of 1963. (BR Database).



Tim took this one from an Intercity Paddington to Birmingham train on 14th April 1962. We have no further details.

Edit: If we assume that this photo was taken on the New Line, as the previous and following photos, then the presence of the electrified lines to the RHS mark this out as between Old Oak and South Ruislip. The housing beyond the underground lines at the same level as the BR lines suggests between Greenford and south of Northolt Jcn..

Since, I think, the LT lines are not to the east of the GW lines then this is an up train rather than a PDN to Brum service.

The LT Central Line is on the south western side and I would go further and narrow this down to between South Ruislip (in the distance) and Ruislip Gardens. Judging by the smoke trail the photo was taken from a northbound train looking towards the rear while crossing the bridge over Bridgwater Road - of which the girders can just be seen on the bottom far right..



King 6008 King James II on a Paddington to Shrewsbury train at High Wycombe on14th April 1962. It was a Stafford Road engine from February 1959 and withdrawn in June 1962. (SLS). It was demolished at Swindon works during January 1963. (BR Database).

Edit: The bus in the forecourt lookes like a Thames Valley Traction Company Bristol.

I am not aware of many photos being taken from such a vantage point... was Tim up the ladder of the water tower on the up platform... was the camera pointed through the railings on the retaining wall?

I would say this was taken from Totteridge Road over or through the railings of the retaining wall. I don't think the water tower ladder would be tall enough to obtain the same angle.



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

Princess 46206 Princess Marie Louise on a down Birmingham & Wolverhampton train from the bridge at Kenton Recreation Ground on 19th April 1962. It had been a Camden engine since January and was withdrawn from there in November. (SLS). It was scrapped in October 1962 at Crewe Works. (BR Database).

A right accounting puzzle here then... scrapped before withdrawn!

 

[Dog Star]

Tim took this one from an Intercity Paddington to Birmingham train on 14th April 1962. We have no further details.

View attachment 199422

If we assume that this photo was taken on the New Line, as the previous and following photos, then the presence of the electrified lines to the RHS mark this out as between Old Oak and South Ruislip. The housing beyond the underground lines at the same level as the BR lines suggests between Greenford and south of Northolt Jcn..

Since, I think, the LT lines are not to the east of the GW lines then this is an up train rather than a PDN to Brum service.

[since writing the above Yorkie Dave has pointed out that (a) my suggestion is about five miles south of the correct location and (b) the train is a down service. I agree with both of those thoughts... I was fooled by thinking that the Central Line depot came as far south as South Ruislip, a big mistake].

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

King 6008 King James II on a Paddington to Shrewsbury train at High Wycombe on14th April 1962. It was a Stafford Road engine from February 1959 and withdrawn in June 1962. (SLS). It was demolished at Swindon works during January 1963. (BR Database).

View attachment 199423

This is, on first sight, an up service rather than heading towards Brum. The engine is on the up main line with the up platform loop to the RHS of the photo. I do not have a WTT for the period, if someone can check an appropriate WTT then we may be abe to identify which up services did not stop at Wycombe and hence home in on what Tim photographed.

I am not aware of many photos being taken from such a vantage point... was Tim up the ladder of the water tower on the up platform... was the camera pointed through the railings on the retaining wall?

regards, Graham