oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you, Dave. Absolutely correct again. I really should have got accustomed to interrogating Tim's notes before publishing. Must try harder! The commentary is changed by way of an edit.
Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
More from Ireland on the way - anticipated with great pleasure!
Roger.
Roger.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I’m glad you like the idea of a few more photos in Ireland, Roger, as perhaps you can help me with this one. Adelaide MPD, Belfast on 31st October 1958 and a somewhat less than stellar picture showing the scrap road. However the numbering supplied against the photo doesn’t make sense. There’s a tender then a 4-4-2T sans boiler No 40, No 108 4-4-0 no tender or boiler, No 21 0-6-0, No 157 probably an 0-6-0 , No 163 unknown – I’ll guess an 0-6-0. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find all these in the Irish Steam Loco Register by J W P Rowledge published by the Irish Traction Group. If anyone can give me a lead on a better identification I’ll be grateful.
Class V Compound 4-4-0 87 Kestrel on the 12 noon Belfast to Dublin train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. No 87 was one of five class V locos introduced in 1932 and built by Beyer Peacock. When the assets of the GNR(I) were divided in October 1958 No 87 went to the UTA becoming their 87x. It was withdrawn in 1960.
T2 class 4-4-2T No 66 on the 10.20am Dungannon to Belfast train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. No 66 was built by Beyer Peacock in 1930 and also went to the UTA in 1958 becoming their No 66x. Withdrawal followed in 1960.
No 191 Croagh Patrick, an S2 4-4-0 built in 1915 by Beyer Peacock and rebuilt in 1939 on the 7.30am Dublin to Belfast train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. This one went to the CIE where it became 191n and was withdrawn in 1960.
Brian
Class V Compound 4-4-0 87 Kestrel on the 12 noon Belfast to Dublin train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. No 87 was one of five class V locos introduced in 1932 and built by Beyer Peacock. When the assets of the GNR(I) were divided in October 1958 No 87 went to the UTA becoming their 87x. It was withdrawn in 1960.
T2 class 4-4-2T No 66 on the 10.20am Dungannon to Belfast train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. No 66 was built by Beyer Peacock in 1930 and also went to the UTA in 1958 becoming their No 66x. Withdrawal followed in 1960.
No 191 Croagh Patrick, an S2 4-4-0 built in 1915 by Beyer Peacock and rebuilt in 1939 on the 7.30am Dublin to Belfast train at Lambeg, Co Antrim on 31st October 1958. This one went to the CIE where it became 191n and was withdrawn in 1960.
Brian
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
By the merest hint of good fortune I have discovered a list of the ex GNRI locomotives that the UTA decided to scrap in 1958 and I can positively identify three out of the five numbers given and possible explanations for the anomalies.
No 21 T2 class 4-4-2T built by Nasmyth Wilson in 8/24, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 8/59 which I think is the date of selling for scrap.
No 108 LQG class 0-6-0 "Pomeroy" builty by Dundalk works 4/08, rebuilt 6/28, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 12/59.
No 157 QL class 4-4-0 "Orpheus" built by NBL Glasgow 11/04, rebuilt x/19 and 9/22, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 12/59.
I am reasonably happy that the three above are in the line up in Tim's photo.
The less certains,
No 40 SG3 class 0-6-0, built by Beyer Peacock 2/21, originally number 201 and renumbered in 1/48 to make way for the first of the second batch of U Class 4-4-0s "Meath". Subsequently further renumberd in May 1959 as 34 in the UTA capital stock list but not withdrawn until 5/65. Whilst Tim probably/possibly listed it in his photo, it may well have just been resting between duties and certainly wasn't scrapped for some years.
No 163 LQG class 0-6-0 "Banbridge" built by NBL Glasgow 4/08, rebuilt 9/27. It went to the CIE in 1/48 and was wdn 11/62 so pretty unlikely to have been in the scrap road at Adelaide on the last day of October 1958. Is it possible that Tim wrote this down incorrectly and it is in fact 162 "Ballyroney" of the same class that went to the UTA and was in the scrap list of 1958 not having been renumbered by UTA, formally being withdrawn in 12/59. Seems the most likely explanation.
Regards
Martin
No 21 T2 class 4-4-2T built by Nasmyth Wilson in 8/24, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 8/59 which I think is the date of selling for scrap.
No 108 LQG class 0-6-0 "Pomeroy" builty by Dundalk works 4/08, rebuilt 6/28, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 12/59.
No 157 QL class 4-4-0 "Orpheus" built by NBL Glasgow 11/04, rebuilt x/19 and 9/22, not renumbered in UTA list, wdn 12/59.
I am reasonably happy that the three above are in the line up in Tim's photo.
The less certains,
No 40 SG3 class 0-6-0, built by Beyer Peacock 2/21, originally number 201 and renumbered in 1/48 to make way for the first of the second batch of U Class 4-4-0s "Meath". Subsequently further renumberd in May 1959 as 34 in the UTA capital stock list but not withdrawn until 5/65. Whilst Tim probably/possibly listed it in his photo, it may well have just been resting between duties and certainly wasn't scrapped for some years.
No 163 LQG class 0-6-0 "Banbridge" built by NBL Glasgow 4/08, rebuilt 9/27. It went to the CIE in 1/48 and was wdn 11/62 so pretty unlikely to have been in the scrap road at Adelaide on the last day of October 1958. Is it possible that Tim wrote this down incorrectly and it is in fact 162 "Ballyroney" of the same class that went to the UTA and was in the scrap list of 1958 not having been renumbered by UTA, formally being withdrawn in 12/59. Seems the most likely explanation.
Regards
Martin
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you, Martin. I reckon I've made a fundamental error here, assuming that Tim listed the locos in that line from front to back, or even back to front of the frame but they could equally well just be randomised. Referring back to the Irish Steam Loco Register I can make all those descriptions fit but in a rather random fashion. 
Several pictures here of a loco now in preservation at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum but here on active duty. It’s County Donegal Railways Joint Committee No 2 Blanche, a class 5A 3 ft gauge 2-6-4T from Nasmyth Wilson in 1912 which entered service as no 2a Strabane, renumbered and renamed in 1937. It was withdrawn in 1959 coincident with closure of the line. In these photos Tim has recorded the loco as painted red and photographed at Strabane, Co Derry on 3rd November 1958.
These two photos are of Blanche as referenced above leaving Strabane, Co Derry, with a southbound train to Donegal on 3rd November 1958.
Two photos here of stock and facilities at Strabane Co Derry on the County Donegal Joint Railway Committee line on 3rd November 1958. The line was closed on 31st December 1958 and was subsequently dismantled. I'm guessing that the vehicle to the left of shot is on standard or 5ft 3in gauge track.
Brian
Several pictures here of a loco now in preservation at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum but here on active duty. It’s County Donegal Railways Joint Committee No 2 Blanche, a class 5A 3 ft gauge 2-6-4T from Nasmyth Wilson in 1912 which entered service as no 2a Strabane, renumbered and renamed in 1937. It was withdrawn in 1959 coincident with closure of the line. In these photos Tim has recorded the loco as painted red and photographed at Strabane, Co Derry on 3rd November 1958.
These two photos are of Blanche as referenced above leaving Strabane, Co Derry, with a southbound train to Donegal on 3rd November 1958.
Two photos here of stock and facilities at Strabane Co Derry on the County Donegal Joint Railway Committee line on 3rd November 1958. The line was closed on 31st December 1958 and was subsequently dismantled. I'm guessing that the vehicle to the left of shot is on standard or 5ft 3in gauge track.
Brian
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
Brian,
Sorry I was unable to answer your request for identification on the line-up in #4503 - I was rather tied up sorting out being hacked! Martin has done a fine job on this - his resources far outweigh mine, I feel. Many thanks to him and to yourself for this further interesting selection.
Roger
Sorry I was unable to answer your request for identification on the line-up in #4503 - I was rather tied up sorting out being hacked! Martin has done a fine job on this - his resources far outweigh mine, I feel. Many thanks to him and to yourself for this further interesting selection.
Roger
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I wasn't aware of the Donegal Museum, Simon. However I've looked it up on t'Web and it gets very decent reviews. There appears to be a bit of stock held there too.
Thanks for yours as well, Roger. Hope you're now on top of the hacking issue.
This is the last Irish post for a while at least. In scanning other material I've come across occasional pictures and they'll appear as we reach them in the normal process of things.
Probably the best of the bunch this is R Class 0-6-4T 166 shunting in Sydenham Road Belfast on 3rd November 1958. This loco was built by Beyer Peacock in 1911 and went to the UTA in 1958 becoming their No 24. It was withdrawn in 1963.
Two photos of a loco built in 1934 by the LMS Northern Counties Committee. This is 5 ft 3 in gauge W Class 2-6-0 No 95 The Braid on a Belfast train at Strabane Station on 3rd November 1958. The loco was taken on by the UTA at the end of the year and the number remained unchanged. It was withdrawn by the UTA in 1964.
A very grainy and under exposed photo of V class 4-4-0 No 84 Falcon on shed at Belfast York Road shed on 23rd December 1958. Tim proposed that this loco went to the UTA at the end of the year but the Irish Steam Loco Register advises that it actually went to the CIE. The loco was built in 1932 by Beyer Peacock and was rebuilt in 1947. CIE withdrew the loco in 1959 and it was not renumbered.
At Belfast York Road Shed on 23rd December 1958 is 5 ft 3 in gauge WT 2-6-4T No 53. This loco was built in 1949 by BR Derby Works and was transferred to the UTA at the end of 1958. In 1968 it was one of the few steam locos transferred from the UTA to Northern Ireland Railways and it was withdrawn in 1971, having been fitted with an enlarged bunker in 1968. Steam on NIR finished in 1971.
Brian
Thanks for yours as well, Roger. Hope you're now on top of the hacking issue.
This is the last Irish post for a while at least. In scanning other material I've come across occasional pictures and they'll appear as we reach them in the normal process of things.
Probably the best of the bunch this is R Class 0-6-4T 166 shunting in Sydenham Road Belfast on 3rd November 1958. This loco was built by Beyer Peacock in 1911 and went to the UTA in 1958 becoming their No 24. It was withdrawn in 1963.
Two photos of a loco built in 1934 by the LMS Northern Counties Committee. This is 5 ft 3 in gauge W Class 2-6-0 No 95 The Braid on a Belfast train at Strabane Station on 3rd November 1958. The loco was taken on by the UTA at the end of the year and the number remained unchanged. It was withdrawn by the UTA in 1964.
A very grainy and under exposed photo of V class 4-4-0 No 84 Falcon on shed at Belfast York Road shed on 23rd December 1958. Tim proposed that this loco went to the UTA at the end of the year but the Irish Steam Loco Register advises that it actually went to the CIE. The loco was built in 1932 by Beyer Peacock and was rebuilt in 1947. CIE withdrew the loco in 1959 and it was not renumbered.
At Belfast York Road Shed on 23rd December 1958 is 5 ft 3 in gauge WT 2-6-4T No 53. This loco was built in 1949 by BR Derby Works and was transferred to the UTA at the end of 1958. In 1968 it was one of the few steam locos transferred from the UTA to Northern Ireland Railways and it was withdrawn in 1971, having been fitted with an enlarged bunker in 1968. Steam on NIR finished in 1971.
Brian
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
My thanks to Roger for his kind words.
The 0-6-4T locos were the RT class of which there were originally four, Nos 22,23,166,167. No 22 was withdrawn in 8/59, the other three as Brian says in 7/63. 23 was the only GNRI loco taken over by the UTA which had the same number in both concerns.
Interestingly the photos of 95 show it tugging around the Stanier tender which it only gained in 1958 and as far as I can tell the loco was out of use by 11/60 although not scrapped until 8/64. The Stanier tender went to 94 circa 1961. Unfortunately I don't have a list of the NCC locos which went either to the CIE or NCC.
By and large UTA renumbered locos into a combined GNRI/BCDR/NCC capital stock list or a surplus list with an x suffix, the CIE did sensibly absolutely nothing as long as it didn't cause a conflict with former GSR loco numbering.
Whilst nos 50-53 were being erected at Derby the Railway Executive sold the NCC to the UTA on 1/4/49 which caused a legal conflict in that the RE wasn't permitted to build anything that wasn't for their own use. A memorandum from E J Missenden took the pragmatic view and promised not to do it again which I think until relatively recent times, they kept to. No 53 and the thankfully preserved No 4 worked the last steam trains in NI on 2/5/70.
I was in NI last summer and because I know someone I was taken around the works at Whitehead and saw the RPSI's recreation of a mogul, the frames and cylinders were well advanced and a credit to Irish engineering. I hope I may see it in steam some time. I also visited Derry where Meenglass, the slightly smaller half sister to Blanche is stored outside the Foyle Valley Railway Museum which I believe has reopened. It would in my view be wrong to call it preserved as it is basically a reasonably painted hulk, Columbkille inside the museum is in better condition I believe. Thanks for the Irish stuff Brian, absolutely wonderful.
The 0-6-4T locos were the RT class of which there were originally four, Nos 22,23,166,167. No 22 was withdrawn in 8/59, the other three as Brian says in 7/63. 23 was the only GNRI loco taken over by the UTA which had the same number in both concerns.
Interestingly the photos of 95 show it tugging around the Stanier tender which it only gained in 1958 and as far as I can tell the loco was out of use by 11/60 although not scrapped until 8/64. The Stanier tender went to 94 circa 1961. Unfortunately I don't have a list of the NCC locos which went either to the CIE or NCC.
By and large UTA renumbered locos into a combined GNRI/BCDR/NCC capital stock list or a surplus list with an x suffix, the CIE did sensibly absolutely nothing as long as it didn't cause a conflict with former GSR loco numbering.
Whilst nos 50-53 were being erected at Derby the Railway Executive sold the NCC to the UTA on 1/4/49 which caused a legal conflict in that the RE wasn't permitted to build anything that wasn't for their own use. A memorandum from E J Missenden took the pragmatic view and promised not to do it again which I think until relatively recent times, they kept to. No 53 and the thankfully preserved No 4 worked the last steam trains in NI on 2/5/70.
I was in NI last summer and because I know someone I was taken around the works at Whitehead and saw the RPSI's recreation of a mogul, the frames and cylinders were well advanced and a credit to Irish engineering. I hope I may see it in steam some time. I also visited Derry where Meenglass, the slightly smaller half sister to Blanche is stored outside the Foyle Valley Railway Museum which I believe has reopened. It would in my view be wrong to call it preserved as it is basically a reasonably painted hulk, Columbkille inside the museum is in better condition I believe. Thanks for the Irish stuff Brian, absolutely wonderful.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I've done a quick review of upcoming images and although previously unseen Irish ones are a while away there are two further small sets. Interestingly there is one set including Meenglass at work. Thanks, Martin @Martin Shaw for the expanded details which I'll add to the files about each loco.
As for the crane, Simon @simond, if crane it is, regrettably the "fall off" of the image at the edge of frame makes it difficult to identify with any certainty.
The dates of these photos appear at first glance to clash with the Irish photos above but this is almost certainly not the case. Tim’s father frequently worked in Ireland and whilst it would be inaccurate to say Tim commuted travelling back and forth was a regular occurrence.
Class J27 0-6-0 65837 on a train which appears to be empty hoppers at Heaton Station on 6th November 1958. This was allocated to North Blyth from October 1957 (BR Database) and was withdrawn at the end of October 1962 (SLS). It went to Darlington Works for disposal which it entered on 23rd January 1963 (Yeadons) although BR Database advise a scrapping date of November 1962.
J39 0-6-0 64856 light at Heaton on 6th November 1958. The loco was allocated to Heaton in October 1949 and withdrawn in October 1962. It was scrapped in November 1962 at Cowlairs Works.
Edit. Now known to be the West end of Newcastle Central Station, not Heaton
A3 60075 St Frusquin at Newcastle Station on a fitted freight on 6th November 1958. The loco had been allocated to Gateshead since May 1955, moved to Darlington in July 1961 and back to Gateshead in December 1961. It returned to Darlington in July 1962, Heaton in January and bounced back to Darlington in June 1963 before ending up back where it started, Gateshead in January 1964 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). It went in to Darlington Works for cutting up on 4th February 1964. (BR Database).
N10 0-6-2T 69097 next to A2 60518 Tehran inside Gateshead Shed on 6th November 1958. The N10 had been at Gateshead since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in April 1962. (SLS). It was seen at Darlington Works scrap yard on 14th July 1962 (SLS) and scrapping was completed in August the same year. (BR Database).
60518 was at its home shed, Gateshead, where it was allocated when new in December 1946. It moved to Heaton in June 1960 and York North a month later where it was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works which it entered for cutting up on 28th March 1963. (BR Database).
Brian
As for the crane, Simon @simond, if crane it is, regrettably the "fall off" of the image at the edge of frame makes it difficult to identify with any certainty.
The dates of these photos appear at first glance to clash with the Irish photos above but this is almost certainly not the case. Tim’s father frequently worked in Ireland and whilst it would be inaccurate to say Tim commuted travelling back and forth was a regular occurrence.
Class J27 0-6-0 65837 on a train which appears to be empty hoppers at Heaton Station on 6th November 1958. This was allocated to North Blyth from October 1957 (BR Database) and was withdrawn at the end of October 1962 (SLS). It went to Darlington Works for disposal which it entered on 23rd January 1963 (Yeadons) although BR Database advise a scrapping date of November 1962.
J39 0-6-0 64856 light at Heaton on 6th November 1958. The loco was allocated to Heaton in October 1949 and withdrawn in October 1962. It was scrapped in November 1962 at Cowlairs Works.
Edit. Now known to be the West end of Newcastle Central Station, not Heaton
A3 60075 St Frusquin at Newcastle Station on a fitted freight on 6th November 1958. The loco had been allocated to Gateshead since May 1955, moved to Darlington in July 1961 and back to Gateshead in December 1961. It returned to Darlington in July 1962, Heaton in January and bounced back to Darlington in June 1963 before ending up back where it started, Gateshead in January 1964 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). It went in to Darlington Works for cutting up on 4th February 1964. (BR Database).
N10 0-6-2T 69097 next to A2 60518 Tehran inside Gateshead Shed on 6th November 1958. The N10 had been at Gateshead since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in April 1962. (SLS). It was seen at Darlington Works scrap yard on 14th July 1962 (SLS) and scrapping was completed in August the same year. (BR Database).
60518 was at its home shed, Gateshead, where it was allocated when new in December 1946. It moved to Heaton in June 1960 and York North a month later where it was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works which it entered for cutting up on 28th March 1963. (BR Database).
Brian
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BillyRuffian
Member
The picture of the J39 actually shows the west end of Newcastle Central Station, and not Heaton. The gantry under which 64856 is either standing or passing is familiar from many images I've seen. The building in the background contained the offices for Forth Goods Station, became offices for the District Engineer, and still exists as Forth Banks Police Station.
Can't find any images from Platform level at the moment, but the first two photos here show a similar view of the building from street level.
Paul
Can't find any images from Platform level at the moment, but the first two photos here show a similar view of the building from street level.
Paul
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simond
Western Thunderer
yes, I understand. Compare this, obviously the "other side", and "chimney unfolded".
cropped from Prints of Cowens Sheldon & Co Ltd 15T breakdown crane No. 1 for illustrative purposes.
I also found this gem entirely by chance;
from 2 Crane whose copyright I assume it is.
keep 'em coming!
Simon
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
What a fantastic resource is WT! Thank you Paul @BillyRuffian for correcting the location of the J39 photo. Please advise any further corrections as you see them. Tim's locations and sometimes dates are open to "interpretation".
Thanks for those pics, Simon @simond. That certainly looks a possible in the Irish photos. Which reminds me - I have one in the stash to build one day....
Class J71 0-6-0T 68309 next to an unidentified V2 in Gateshead Shed on 6th November 1958. This was allocated to Gateshead in June 1947, then York North in April 1959 where it was withdrawn in May 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Darlington in June the same year. (RO).
An unidentified A3 at Newcastle Central on a parcels train on 18th December 1958.
A4 60021 Wild Swan on a fitted freight at Newcastle Central on 18th December 1958. This loco has been in these pages too many times to mention, for example in posts #2279, #3557 and #4094. It was allocated to Kings Cross in June 1950 and was moved to New England in June 1963 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1964 at Doncaster Works. (BR Database).
This is doubtless a “grabbed shot” – and to my eye interesting too. It’s the Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns Factory, Forth Street Works, Newcastle from the railway and taken on 18th December 1958.
V2 60809 The Snapper The East Yorkshire Regiment The Duke of York's Own on an Edinburgh express at Newcastle Central Station on 18th December 1958. The loco was allocated to Gateshead in July 1957, moved to Heaton in December 1959, then Copley Hill (Leeds) in July and Thornaby in October 1960 and finally Darlington in July 1964 where it was withdrawn the following month. (SLS). Thereafter things got a bit strange as BR Database reports that it went in to Darlington Works for cutting up on 6 August but was then sent to Swindon Works for cutting up on 24th August 1964. This is confirmed on largely similar dates by the Railway Observer.
Brian
Thanks for those pics, Simon @simond. That certainly looks a possible in the Irish photos. Which reminds me - I have one in the stash to build one day....
Class J71 0-6-0T 68309 next to an unidentified V2 in Gateshead Shed on 6th November 1958. This was allocated to Gateshead in June 1947, then York North in April 1959 where it was withdrawn in May 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Darlington in June the same year. (RO).
An unidentified A3 at Newcastle Central on a parcels train on 18th December 1958.
A4 60021 Wild Swan on a fitted freight at Newcastle Central on 18th December 1958. This loco has been in these pages too many times to mention, for example in posts #2279, #3557 and #4094. It was allocated to Kings Cross in June 1950 and was moved to New England in June 1963 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1964 at Doncaster Works. (BR Database).
This is doubtless a “grabbed shot” – and to my eye interesting too. It’s the Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns Factory, Forth Street Works, Newcastle from the railway and taken on 18th December 1958.
V2 60809 The Snapper The East Yorkshire Regiment The Duke of York's Own on an Edinburgh express at Newcastle Central Station on 18th December 1958. The loco was allocated to Gateshead in July 1957, moved to Heaton in December 1959, then Copley Hill (Leeds) in July and Thornaby in October 1960 and finally Darlington in July 1964 where it was withdrawn the following month. (SLS). Thereafter things got a bit strange as BR Database reports that it went in to Darlington Works for cutting up on 6 August but was then sent to Swindon Works for cutting up on 24th August 1964. This is confirmed on largely similar dates by the Railway Observer.
Brian
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
The only V2 with a number beginning 6086- and with a 52D shedplate in 1958 was 60865 which was stored at Heaton from roughly Feb 65 [though seemingly not officially withdrawn until June 65] to Oct 65 and then scrapped by Ellis Metals of Derwenthaugh in Nov 65.What a fantastic resource is WT! Thank you Paul @BillyRuffian for correcting the location of the J39 photo. Please advise any further corrections as you see them. Tim's locations and sometimes dates are open to "interpretation".
Thanks for those pics, Simon @simond. That certainly looks a possible in the Irish photos. Which reminds me - I have one in the stash to build one day....
Class J71 0-6-0T 68309 next to an unidentified V2 in Gateshead Shed on 6th November 1958. This was allocated to Gateshead in June 1947, then York North in April 1959 where it was withdrawn in May 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Darlington in June the same year. (RO).
View attachment 231375
An unidentified A3 at Newcastle Central on a parcels train on 18th December 1958.
View attachment 231376
A4 60021 Wild Swan on a fitted freight at Newcastle Central on 18th December 1958. This loco has been in these pages too many times to mention, for example in posts #2279, #3557 and #4094. It was allocated to Kings Cross in June 1950 and was moved to New England in June 1963 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1964 at Doncaster Works. (BR Database).
View attachment 231377
This is doubtless a “grabbed shot” – and to my eye interesting too. It’s the Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns Factory, Forth Street Works, Newcastle from the railway and taken on 18th December 1958.
View attachment 231378
V2 60809 The Snapper The East Yorkshire Regiment The Duke of York's Own on an Edinburgh express at Newcastle Central Station on 18th December 1958. The loco was allocated to Gateshead in July 1957, moved to Heaton in December 1959, then Copley Hill (Leeds) in July and Thornaby in October 1960 and finally Darlington in July 1964 where it was withdrawn the following month. (SLS). Thereafter things got a bit strange as BR Database reports that it went in to Darlington Works for cutting up on 6 August but was then sent to Swindon Works for cutting up on 24th August 1964. This is confirmed on largely similar dates by the Railway Observer.
View attachment 231379
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
A good bit of sleuthing there, Arun. I looked for an appropriate loco in the 6086- series in my Locoshed Books but didn't find one. In fact my April 1958 version (the closest to the photo date I have) gives the allocation of 60865 as 56C, Copley Hill and the next one for November/December 1959 says it moved to 52D, Tweedmouth. No hope of actually identifying the location there, then! I'll be interested to know your reference for completeness of the record. These Locoshed Books are pretty difficult to find nowadays, and those on ebay go for silly prices although I found one for October/November 1963 at the last Acton open day for the princely sum of £1! 
Paul @BillyRuffian - I'll be grateful if you'll check the stated locations for these photos. The descriptions I've used come from Tim's notes so may be open to interpretation...
Class D49 62714 Perthshire outside Gateshead Shed with J27 65877 behind on 6th November 1958. 62714 had been a Stirling engine since October 1951 and was withdrawn in August 1959. It was seen intact at Darlington Works on 13th September 1959 (RO) and 10th October the same year (WHTS) and was scrapped the same month. (BR Database).
65877 home shed was Heaton from July 1957, went to Blyth (North) in November 1959 and Percy Main in September 1961 where it was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). The loco went to Darlington (RO) and entered works on 22nd January 1963 (Yeadons). It was observed in the stripping shop on 26th January 1963 (RO). BR Database report a scrapping date of January 1963 although WHTS advise it was observed on 16th February 1963.
Tim’s description of this one is B16 61413 in Newcastle Station on a goods train but it is actually probably at Heaton Shed on 6th November 1958. It was allocated there from October 1955, moved to York (North) in June 1958 and finally Mirfield in December 1960 where it was withdrawn in September 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Darlington Works in March 1963 although it entered the works on 11th October 1961. (BR Database).
Edit: Confirmed as very probably Heaton Shed.
Class J72 68742 on what is probably Heaton Shed on 6th November 1958. The loco was allocated to Heaton in July 1948 and withdrawn in October 1961. (SLS). It went to Darlington for disposal (Yeadons) but we have no date by which it was carried out.
This is V3 2-6-2 tank 67646 on shed at Heaton on 6th November 1958. 67646 was a North Eastern England loco at the time, being based at Heaton, Newcastle and had been there since June 1948 after which it moved to Gateshead in July 1963. It was withdrawn from Gateshead in November 1964. (All SLS). It went to T J Thompson & Sons at Stockton for disposal (Yeadons) which had been completed by the end of February 1965. (BR Database).
Brian
Paul @BillyRuffian - I'll be grateful if you'll check the stated locations for these photos. The descriptions I've used come from Tim's notes so may be open to interpretation...
Class D49 62714 Perthshire outside Gateshead Shed with J27 65877 behind on 6th November 1958. 62714 had been a Stirling engine since October 1951 and was withdrawn in August 1959. It was seen intact at Darlington Works on 13th September 1959 (RO) and 10th October the same year (WHTS) and was scrapped the same month. (BR Database).
65877 home shed was Heaton from July 1957, went to Blyth (North) in November 1959 and Percy Main in September 1961 where it was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). The loco went to Darlington (RO) and entered works on 22nd January 1963 (Yeadons). It was observed in the stripping shop on 26th January 1963 (RO). BR Database report a scrapping date of January 1963 although WHTS advise it was observed on 16th February 1963.
Tim’s description of this one is B16 61413 in Newcastle Station on a goods train but it is actually probably at Heaton Shed on 6th November 1958. It was allocated there from October 1955, moved to York (North) in June 1958 and finally Mirfield in December 1960 where it was withdrawn in September 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Darlington Works in March 1963 although it entered the works on 11th October 1961. (BR Database).
Edit: Confirmed as very probably Heaton Shed.
Class J72 68742 on what is probably Heaton Shed on 6th November 1958. The loco was allocated to Heaton in July 1948 and withdrawn in October 1961. (SLS). It went to Darlington for disposal (Yeadons) but we have no date by which it was carried out.
This is V3 2-6-2 tank 67646 on shed at Heaton on 6th November 1958. 67646 was a North Eastern England loco at the time, being based at Heaton, Newcastle and had been there since June 1948 after which it moved to Gateshead in July 1963. It was withdrawn from Gateshead in November 1964. (All SLS). It went to T J Thompson & Sons at Stockton for disposal (Yeadons) which had been completed by the end of February 1965. (BR Database).
Brian
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
I'm with Arun and Tim in that I believe the shed to be Gateshead, that a small 0-6-0T 68309 was allocated there in Nov 58 makes it highly unlikely to be elsewhere and 60865 is really the only logical choice. Bearing in mind that it has a clean shed plate it is possible that whilst the official allocation date to Tweedmouth was September I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gateshead had only just got around to it.
From Yeadon,
60865 New England 29/6/39, March 24/6/51, Copley Hill 14/10/51, Tweedmouth 14/9/58, Heaton 30/12/62, Gateshead 16/6/63, Wdn 14/6/65,
Sold for scrap to Ellis Metals, Swalwell 7/65.
Arun can maybe confirm Swalwell and Derwenthaugh are or are not the same location.
Martin
From Yeadon,
60865 New England 29/6/39, March 24/6/51, Copley Hill 14/10/51, Tweedmouth 14/9/58, Heaton 30/12/62, Gateshead 16/6/63, Wdn 14/6/65,
Sold for scrap to Ellis Metals, Swalwell 7/65.
Arun can maybe confirm Swalwell and Derwenthaugh are or are not the same location.
Martin
BillyRuffian
Member
Hi Brian,
I haven't enough (yet!) to determine if Heaton is the location for the B16, though the fact that the B1 is on a line at a slightly higher level might help when I search a bit further. I would suggest that the B16 and V3 aren't on freight, as there are no headlamps on the B16, unlike the B1 in the background. Also, I've never seen a combination of such locomotives, and the V3s were generally used on Tyneside suburban trains, and (I think) the Tyne Commission Quay boat trains.
Looking at the sequence of photos, is that 67646 behind the B16, and in the background of the J72 photograph? As 67646 is at the head of at least a couple of coal wagons, perhaps this is why Tim identified this as a freight?
As for the photograph of the D49 and J27, this one bothers me a bit! I feel I can say that 62714 and 65877 are standing at the east end of Gateshead shed, with part of the Greenesfield Works behind them. The windows of the building seem right here and as surviving and modernised here.
My problem is the building behind the works, between the two chimney stacks at left. If I'm right, that is probably on the Newcastle side of the river . It could be the building at the right in the background of the photo of 60075 in #4,510, and more clearly, 60021 in #4,514, just doesn't quite seem high enough.
Sleeping on this one I think,
Paul
I haven't enough (yet!) to determine if Heaton is the location for the B16, though the fact that the B1 is on a line at a slightly higher level might help when I search a bit further. I would suggest that the B16 and V3 aren't on freight, as there are no headlamps on the B16, unlike the B1 in the background. Also, I've never seen a combination of such locomotives, and the V3s were generally used on Tyneside suburban trains, and (I think) the Tyne Commission Quay boat trains.
Looking at the sequence of photos, is that 67646 behind the B16, and in the background of the J72 photograph? As 67646 is at the head of at least a couple of coal wagons, perhaps this is why Tim identified this as a freight?
As for the photograph of the D49 and J27, this one bothers me a bit! I feel I can say that 62714 and 65877 are standing at the east end of Gateshead shed, with part of the Greenesfield Works behind them. The windows of the building seem right here and as surviving and modernised here.
My problem is the building behind the works, between the two chimney stacks at left. If I'm right, that is probably on the Newcastle side of the river . It could be the building at the right in the background of the photo of 60075 in #4,510, and more clearly, 60021 in #4,514, just doesn't quite seem high enough.
Sleeping on this one I think,
Paul
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
Brian and Martin
The reference for 60865 is the hard copy version of WHTS volume 8. The full disposal from WHTS is: Ellis Metals Ltd., Swalwell, Derwenthaugh 11.65
My 1:25000 OS map extract of the area is attached
It certainly looks as though they are co-located. I imagine that a visit to the NLS map site might further fine tune the actual scrapyard site - Who knows, there might be all sorts of steam engine bits under the Gateshead Metro Centre!BillyRuffian
Member
Bit of digging makes me think I've confirmed the Heaton one at least:
Heaton
The slight rise behind the B16 intrigued me. I thought the B1 was on the East Coast Main Line perhaps, but I think it could be in the sidings north of the shed. The smoke is rising vertically, and not sure if the loco is in mid-gear? The absence of the yard lamps in the later photo doesn't help, but Heaton closed to steam in 1963 for re-development, so I wonder if that is a stub of a lamp below the buffer beam or maybe just part of the retaining woodwork? The presence of the coal wagons in both photos, also leads me to feel this is the same location.
Heaton map from BR Database
Paul
Heaton
The slight rise behind the B16 intrigued me. I thought the B1 was on the East Coast Main Line perhaps, but I think it could be in the sidings north of the shed. The smoke is rising vertically, and not sure if the loco is in mid-gear? The absence of the yard lamps in the later photo doesn't help, but Heaton closed to steam in 1963 for re-development, so I wonder if that is a stub of a lamp below the buffer beam or maybe just part of the retaining woodwork? The presence of the coal wagons in both photos, also leads me to feel this is the same location.
Heaton map from BR Database
Paul