daifly
Western Thunderer
Why on earth would they need to do that - a classic name if ever there was one?
Dave
Last edited:
Trains in Singapore
- Thread starter John Bradshaw
- Start date
Dave
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Singapore is famous for rules, some have probably seen the joke ' Singapore is a fine city' followed by some of the things you can be fined for. Masks are still mandatory on public transport here, and they have lots of signs like the below, from an MRT train. The funny thing is that for all outsiders might laugh, following these things does make for a nicer ride.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Something often lost in European countries is that there's a reason for the 'rain' in rain forest and why the tropics are so green and lush. Yes, Singapore is warm year round and gets lots of glorious sunny weather. It also gets lots of rain. And thunder. And lightning. When it rains here it can be bonkers, like someone is emptying a bucket of water out of the sky. And the thunder and lightning is crazy, it's not a little bit of half hearted thunder and lightning like in Britain, it's like being in an artillery barrage. The volume can be frightening and it can be sustained. Lightning is like one of those old horror movies. The good thing is it tends to be violent and intense but brief. There are days when it rains all day but it's more normal to have quite brief but very intense rainfall. This picture is from an MRT station at 3 in the afternoon, visibility was probably about 100 meter. There should be a big mall and lots of apartment buildings.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Which is why these are everywhere, seeing them fill up, and the speed they fill up, is quite impressive. One reason floods are relatively unusual despite the rain is that they are very serious about keeping the drainage system clean and well maintained.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Something I noticed about Asia in general many years ago is they have a different concept of efficiency in business. I spent a lot of time in Japanese and Korean ship yards and I suspect a typical European or American manager would have been horrified at the number of people everywhere. The fact that they were building ships very quickly and to the highest quality standards in the world would probably be deemed of secondary importance to the typical management type. My local MRT station is a single island two platform station (the normal arrangement on the MRT) with automated gates and ticket machines. So why have staff, or any more than a token presence? Yet the below poster shows a staffing level that would be considered criminal in Britain. Now I suspect some of this may well be political job creation, but I don't think it is just that. People here take it for granted that the MRT 'just works', is spotlessly clean at all times, that there are staff to assist people in difficulty at stations etc but no complex system works so smoothly that people don't notice it without an awful lot of effort and expertise. They seem to accept people as part of efficiency in Asia.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon
We have 50 staff in our office in Singapore and salary costs are broadly similar to the UK, maybe 10% cheaper depending on the specific role.
I can't imagine that the railway ones are significantly different
Singapore is a relatively expensive city to live in, but tube fares are really cheap.
I'm looking forward to paying a visit back there for the first time in over 2 years in June, if I can find a cheap enough airfare !
Richard
We have 50 staff in our office in Singapore and salary costs are broadly similar to the UK, maybe 10% cheaper depending on the specific role.
I can't imagine that the railway ones are significantly different
Singapore is a relatively expensive city to live in, but tube fares are really cheap.
I'm looking forward to paying a visit back there for the first time in over 2 years in June, if I can find a cheap enough airfare !
Richard
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Salaries here vary by sector, but it's not a low cost economy. Public transport is very cheap as is eating out if you go to the hawker centres, but housing is extremely expensive by any standard and although things like healthcare and education are subsidised people have to pay for services. Perhaps oddly given that eating out is cheap, buying food at the supermarket is expensive, as it is almost all imported. Tax is a lot lower which offsets some of the high costs. For professional and technical people salaries in my sector (shipping) are pretty similar to the UK. I am on local terms, not expatriate terms, after tax, housing and international school fees I am a bit ahead of my position in the UK but it's not a dramatic difference. I think there are cultural factors as both Japan and South Korea are high income economies and they seem to pursue a similar approach to Singapore.
simond
Western Thunderer
I had the pleasure of a brief family holiday in Singapore in the spring of 2000.
The hawkers were fantastic, we should do more of that here!
I recall the storms too.
I wonder what the economic difference is, if staff costs are similar.
Are the transport services subsidised? Presumably difficult if taxes are low.
The hawkers were fantastic, we should do more of that here!
I recall the storms too.
I wonder what the economic difference is, if staff costs are similar.
Are the transport services subsidised? Presumably difficult if taxes are low.
Without trying to get political, it depends what you spend your taxes on. If you rely on traditional Asian values of family support, the social costs of providing for the elderly are low. Similarly having a subsidised (rather than free) healthcare service saves billions. Taiwan, which I know quite well, is similar. Both subsidize public transport. In Singapore's case it is essential as the cost of car ownership is so high.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Public transport is very heavily subsidized here and the government limits car ownership via the certificate of entitlement system which makes car ownership crazily expensive (way more expensive than in the UK).
There is an underside to the country, as is true of anywhere. Singapore is essentially a benign authoritarian state and they rely on people from countries like Bangladesh to do the dirty and heavy manual jobs Singaporean people see as beneath them (again, in that respect most developed countries are similar beneath a surface veneer). Even when I first started coming here in the 90's the 'white boiler suits'' were Singaporean and the 'blue boiler suits' were Bangladeshi, Indian and other lower cost migrant workers. The flip side to the benign authoritarian stuff is that maintaining social cohesion is a major part of government policy. That itself can be a little sinister when you get into social credit ideas. In terms of the economy, the government is quite aggressive in maintaining a business friendly culture here.
I don't want to sound negative as I love Singapore and think Britain could learn a lot from Singapore (public transport shames our metro railway and bus operations) but I am not blind to the fact there is another side to the coin. And it is easy to forget the cultural differences. Having been married to a Peranakan Chinese lady for 20 years I find the sort of cringe orientalism common in the western world rather embarrassing but there are real differences in culture (though for what it is worth I find the tiger mum stereotype bang on.......).
There is an underside to the country, as is true of anywhere. Singapore is essentially a benign authoritarian state and they rely on people from countries like Bangladesh to do the dirty and heavy manual jobs Singaporean people see as beneath them (again, in that respect most developed countries are similar beneath a surface veneer). Even when I first started coming here in the 90's the 'white boiler suits'' were Singaporean and the 'blue boiler suits' were Bangladeshi, Indian and other lower cost migrant workers. The flip side to the benign authoritarian stuff is that maintaining social cohesion is a major part of government policy. That itself can be a little sinister when you get into social credit ideas. In terms of the economy, the government is quite aggressive in maintaining a business friendly culture here.
I don't want to sound negative as I love Singapore and think Britain could learn a lot from Singapore (public transport shames our metro railway and bus operations) but I am not blind to the fact there is another side to the coin. And it is easy to forget the cultural differences. Having been married to a Peranakan Chinese lady for 20 years I find the sort of cringe orientalism common in the western world rather embarrassing but there are real differences in culture (though for what it is worth I find the tiger mum stereotype bang on.......).
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
A 12lb gun pointing at the new container terminal in Pasir Panjang. This terminal is already planned for closure as the new mega port as Tuas is under construction.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Well, John, one thing hasn't changed! The weather. I lived near to Bukit Timah for several years and remember well the "great flood" of the late 1970s. Several people disappeared down the storm drain in the middle of the avenue, never to be seen again. My bosses wife was nearly a casualty, she put a foot down and one leg fell into a manhole. She never saw her purse/handbag again. I was able to drain water out of my rusting Ford Cortina Ghia and it ran just file, it would be written off in today's society. Before that I drove a Ford Escort (coke bottle variety) and took my mother and stefather up to Malaysia (Malacca) one weekend. On the retun we drove into a flood, the local boys were engaged to push us out and we continued our journey. When we got home my mother said she wondered exactly when we should be winding the windows down!
I am so pleased that the old colonial centre next to downtown has not only survived but improved. A funny story about downtown in the evenings then was that the government encouraged oil field workers to congregate at the "Offshore and Land Club". It was on the top floor of a high rise office building, out of sight and hearing of the Singaporeans. This side culture was later celebrated in a book, easily available in the city, entitled "Give me the money, Honey". The mecca later became Orchard Towers which I hear is about to be redeveloped. So where next?
The photos of modern downtown can be contrasted with this, taken in 1974:
I think the old Tanjong Pagar station is down there on the left. There, on subject!
I am so pleased that the old colonial centre next to downtown has not only survived but improved. A funny story about downtown in the evenings then was that the government encouraged oil field workers to congregate at the "Offshore and Land Club". It was on the top floor of a high rise office building, out of sight and hearing of the Singaporeans. This side culture was later celebrated in a book, easily available in the city, entitled "Give me the money, Honey". The mecca later became Orchard Towers which I hear is about to be redeveloped. So where next?
The photos of modern downtown can be contrasted with this, taken in 1974:
I think the old Tanjong Pagar station is down there on the left. There, on subject!
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Amazing how much it has changed!! When I walked around Tanjong Pagar again the only bit I recognized was the elevated expressway and the remains of the old railway station. Bukit Timah is still a nice area, it's almost like a polar opposite of where we live. We live in Westwood which is near Gek Poh and is one of the 'heartland' areas. For people not familiar the heartlands of Singapore are areas heavily developed with HDB apartment blocks. HDB is the Singaporean equivalent of social housing, but it's very different to the UK concept of council housing as although it's subsidized (and with strict occupancy controls, they're for Singaporean nationals) the apartments aren't actually particularly cheap (I think people might be shocked at some of them) and there is none of the stigma attached by some to social housing in Britain (not saying that is right). It's interesting as although Singapore is often cited as a sort of 'Asia for beginners' place the heartlands are rather different and alien. The language is Mandarin and there aren't many non-Asian faces around here. We are in a condo in a small area of landed properties but it's very much a heartlands area, I actually enjoy it as there is a warmth here and despite me sticking out like a sore thumb I've found nothing but a welcoming attitude.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Paul/John
I'm just trying to get my bearings here, I'm thinking that the bottom right hand corner is where Marina bay is now and you can just make out the post office building (now the Fullerton Hotel). A bit further to the left past the first high rise is today the Ascott Hotel, this is where I normally stay on my business visits, in the hotel it says it was once the tallest building in Asia ?
The road running up from there to the left is Shenton Way today, which is where our office is located, but not in any of those buildings.
Or have I got this completely wrong ?
Richard
I'm just trying to get my bearings here, I'm thinking that the bottom right hand corner is where Marina bay is now and you can just make out the post office building (now the Fullerton Hotel). A bit further to the left past the first high rise is today the Ascott Hotel, this is where I normally stay on my business visits, in the hotel it says it was once the tallest building in Asia ?
The road running up from there to the left is Shenton Way today, which is where our office is located, but not in any of those buildings.
Or have I got this completely wrong ?
Richard
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Yes, Marina Bay would be lower right of the picture, it's actually very close to Tanjong Pagar, and is opposite the central business district. Central Singapore is actually very compact, it's a bit like London in being very walkable (if you don't mind the humidity). I took the picture below from very close to the lion.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
Back to transport, this is a very nice feature, older people or those with impaired mobility can get a card which gives them longer to cross.
John Bradshaw
Western Thunderer
The old and new.
