7mm US model dabblings

mickoo

Western Thunderer
My Sprog II packed up and in the end I forked out for Sprog III (£70). The latter was easier to set up as it's virtually plug and play, and it has a 2.5 amp booster current output rather than 1 amp with Sprog II.

I do know QSI Quantum chipped locos were notoriously difficult read as they required a bit more power than an ESU or Zimo decoder.

I'm surprised the Dash 8 is not picked up, as I recall it has an ESU decoder.
It does which is why I'm a bit ticked off.

You hit read type from decoder and it comes up with 'no such manufacturer defined'.

Having said that I think I might have got somewhere by pre selecting the GP60 from the menu and then reading the values, if so it says memory address is factory set to 3 but there are two modes, DC conversion enabled or NMRA Digital only. It's got the former selected so maybe it needs the latter selection uploaded.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Back to the GP60, I think the Sprog is now working, it appears to be reading values but I remain convinced as it may just be populating the values from the default 'new loco' profile you set up.

None the less if I change the address on the Dash 8 the LEDS flash and the engine makes little ticks and clicks, on the MP15DC the LEDs flash but no sounds. On the GP60 nothing, or the appearance of nothing. I didn't test the new addresses as yet, that will of course prove that the Sprog is working and communicating, that'll have to wait until tonight. I did try the throttle panel and test the sounds with the screen pad and they do work on the Dash 8 and MP15DC so logically that means the Sprog is at least talking to the model. The GP60 is just dead.
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Mick

With the GP60 it is more likely to be the power just isn't reaching the decoder, often a broken wire inside, either that or the decoder is toast !

Richard
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick

With the GP60 it is more likely to be the power just isn't reaching the decoder, often a broken wire inside, either that or the decoder is toast !

Richard
Possibly, but what's throwing me is that it works fine on DC and the sounds work too (in a DC kind of way, just basic engine sound), so some part of the chip is working but not another.

I'll get the shell off tonight and look around inside, it may be a plug has dropped off somewhere or there may even be a change over switch, though they are none fitted where the instruction manual suggests.

The big holes in the chassis for all the different switches are void, maybe they only come fitted on different spec models and not the Gold model.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Where are you shopping? I never find stuff like that on ebay.. or is it a trade secret now? :))
JB.
Both of these were off Ebay, the GP60 was just over £400 including taxes and postage, which I think is good value for a new DCC sound fitted model (which currently doesn't work) personally. The ATSF Dash8 CW was under £300 all up.

Granted these are near full RTR prices for UK stock but compared to many US stock that is available (very rarely 2 rail) can often go for nearly twice that.

I did kick myself as there was a Samhongsa 4-12-2 up for grabs (I'd already just got one a few weeks back) last week or so; I figured it'd go for four figures overnight but ended up a touch over £600 which is stupid low for an imported brass model.

As I said it's all relative, for me and for what I want, they are good value but I do respect others who'd still find it expensive.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
This is the one I really really really wanted recently..

BRASS O Overland Union Pacific U-50D F/P NO RESERVE | eBay

JB.
I had that book marked too, it's in good condition but it's one of Overlands lesser detailed productions, their U50C is also in the same vein. Price was a bit rich for me in the end.

There's a bare brass one on Ebay at the moment, not a bad price, but it's been listed several times now and no takers....so perhaps not such a bargain.

As much as I want a (fleet of) U50C I keep holding off them as they just don't quite capture the real deal and I do have a spare set of OMI GTEL trucks, so do have the option to scratch build one at some point.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I think this parrot (GP60 DCC) is deceased, dead, no longer alive, it refuses to even reset with the magnet and reed switch to factory default. Not an overly upsetting outcome as the sounds that I can hear on DC do not fill me with sweetness and light. I also think some one has been inside before as one of the shell securing screws has been swapped from a machine screw to a self tapper as the retaining nut has been stripped out.

More concerning is why this damn Sprog won't work, it's certainly trying to communicate, the little LEDs flash gaily (not sure the power LED is supposed to flash mind) but it refuses to read the chips or even program a simple address change. It'll happily let me activate the sounds and even drive at bare creep speed so I know comms are good.

I'll get it all set up on my laptop shortly and then at least it'll be mobile and I can take it somewhere where somebody has a clue on how to do this stuff.

Anyway, onward.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Against my better judgement I went back to the Sprog and like the blind leading the deaf I stumbled along.

The Sprog is working correctly with the PC and I can connect to a model and sound sounds etc. What I couldn't do was change addresses, seems not all write to module buttons actually write to the module :rant: So, I can now change an address.......yaaaah, but, it still will not let me read decoders at all. I still suspect it's a power issue as reading the Dash 8 makes a clicking noise, exactly the same noise when you first place the engine on the track, why it will let me edit the address and not read it is still a mystery.

I've also read that the GP60 might be Lionels TMCC coding which may....or may not....work with the Sprog and JMRI.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
A little more retail therapy today.

The Lionel/K line SD75M finally arrived in blighty.

For Lionel it's actually a nice detailed model, that'd be because it was originally manufactured by K Line and due to legal battles and all sorts of :shit: ended up being acquired by Lionel. They only shipped 345 units according to urban myth, initially to K Line owners club only but then generally at the end. The whole batch was only shipped in three Railroads and only a hand full were TMCC DCC fitted, this one isn't so at best guess it's one of perhaps 100 or so models.

If we go back to my previous retail therapy post about the OMI SD75M there are a few details about the real engines, but I'll repeat what's necessary from there to here.

ATSF ordered the initial batch of SD75M's which came with road numbers 200 - 250 and went back for more, unfortunately during that process ATSF merged with BN and became BNSF, the second order progressed and units were delivered post merger in ATSF warbonnet scheme, they differed only in road numbers (8251 - 8275) and the change of lettering on the side, BNSF instead of Santa Fe.

Still following? Good, BNSF went back for more but by this time EMD was fitting the whisper cab and the new engines came with a slot in the nose which was the forward vibration isolation joint, to differentiate from the older models EMD listed these as SD75I with road numbers 8276 - 8301.

Later on BNSF regrouped all the earlier engines into the 82xx series (8200 - 8301) and then all back to 200 - 301, confused, easily done.

Lionel dropped the ball in two respects, the model is not an SD75M, it is an SD75I, as such it never carried Santa Fe on the sides, only BNSF in red, further more road numbers can only be 8276 - 8301 or later 249-50 / 276 - 299.

There is no real easy way around this fudge, you could re number and re logo the unit to make a genuine SD75I or fill the nose slot and back date to a SD75M of which there is little point as I already have the OMI version.

The other issues are all down to compromises for three rail and the 'play' trains brigade, plastic handrail posts that flex and do not break when you grab the model, split pilot to accommodate tight curves, massive claw coupler, enormous wheels....with traction tyres :eek: and a fuel tank that's been on a health farm for six months.

IMG_9959.jpg

IMG_9960.jpg

IMG_9963.jpg

IMG_9962.jpg

IMG_9967.jpg

Oooohh those wheels.......nice to see a full transom modeled on the truck mind, new wheels will make room to narrow the trucks to the correct width but that transom will need reducing to suit.

IMG_9964.jpg


IMG_9965.jpg

Skinny line fuel tank, should be almost double that depth as below, despite being a SD70 the tank is the same between the two models, as is much of the car body, especially those with the original slab radiators.

IMG_4707.jpg

The choices are, keep as original even with all it's faults, it is in mint condition and the inner shop shelf is near perfect, the outer shipping one isn't to shabby either. Or, get stuck in and do a decent job of a SD75I.
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
You forgot the choice where you strip it, flare the radiator, and repaint in UP Armor Yellow.....:oops::rolleyes::eek: . Better yet if you swap to the phase II cab, which I've always preferred to the version the model currently sports. Would solve all of your problems!

I don't think TMCC was ever supposed to be compatible with DCC. Which isn't to say that you couldn't use it for 2-rail, I've read where that has been done. I also seem to recall that way back in the early days of Atlas O scale, they did offer some 2-rail models with TMCC. Either way, TMCC, certainly as licensed by Atlas, is miles behind currently DCC capabilities and sounds. I'd bin it straight away and go with something modern.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
You forgot the choice where you strip it, flare the radiator, and repaint in UP Armor Yellow.....:oops::rolleyes::eek: . Better yet if you swap to the phase II cab, which I've always preferred to the version the model currently sports. Would solve all of your problems!

I don't think TMCC was ever supposed to be compatible with DCC. Which isn't to say that you couldn't use it for 2-rail, I've read where that has been done. I also seem to recall that way back in the early days of Atlas O scale, they did offer some 2-rail models with TMCC. Either way, TMCC, certainly as licensed by Atlas, is miles behind currently DCC capabilities and sounds. I'd bin it straight away and go with something modern.

Or...I could just paint it red and black and be done ;)

The GP60 certainly works on 2 rail DC but not 2 rail DCC, I think the chip is knackered, but before splashing out I'd like to make sure my Sprog set up is not the issue, there simply may not be enough grunt from my little 45 year old half wave rectified DC controller :eek:, even though it kicks out 13v it is at the lower end of what is need for a Sprog II.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
The GP60 certainly works on 2 rail DC but not 2 rail DCC, I think the chip is knackered, but before splashing out I'd like to make sure my Sprog set up is not the issue, there simply may not be enough grunt from my little 45 year old half wave rectified DC controller :eek:, even though it kicks out 13v it is at the lower end of what is need for a Sprog II.

For the Sprog set up I'd be using the Dash 8 as it has an ESU decoder - or another DCC loco with either an ESU, Zimo or Lenz decoder if you have one.

I'll try and get my Sprog decoder programmer set up over the weekend and send some screenshots if you're still having issues.
 

Brian McKenzie

Western Thunderer
Not knowing of "K-LINE Electric Trains" past existence, its history at Wikipedia K-Line - Wikipedia was an interesting read.

The twists and turns of large model railway manufacturers, on both sides of the Atlantic, became even more complicated when manufacturing partners were established in Asia.

A Wikipedia reference leads to a US Consumer Product Safety Commission recall notice for K-Line passenger cars:

"If the train derails, the coupler coil spring could overheat creating a potential fire hazard."
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
For the Sprog set up I'd be using the Dash 8 as it has an ESU decoder - or another DCC loco with either an ESU, Zimo or Lenz decoder if you have one.

I'll try and get my Sprog decoder programmer set up over the weekend and send some screenshots if you're still having issues.
Dave, much appreciated.

The Dash 8 is my test engine right now as I'm confident is has the lowest power draw so is the least load on the system and it's the one you programmed with a Sprog so I'm confident it should work.

If I hit read all sheets it does so but the values then populate with -1, 0, 192 or 255 which are arbitrary numbers for those CV settings, I.E. not real values, it simply hasn't read them is my guess. It will also not read the chip with the simple read decoder button, comes back with some error syntax.

I'm currently using Sprog II and JMRI 4.22 but it's the same results on 3.xx and 2.2 which shipped with the Sprog DVD.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
though it kicks out 13v it is at the lower end of what is need for a Sprog II

I haven’t used a Sprog, but I’d expect any DCC unit to need an amp or more, in running mode. My Lenz unit is 5A. As I understand it, if you’re using a programming track the current is strictly limited to prevent damage, so a less grunty power supply should suffice, and the Sprog website suggests a 1.25A 12V wall wart at a tenner. https://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/sprogii

Atb

Simon
 
Top