7mm Wagons For Westerfield

[hrmspaul]

Looking back at the 4mm thread on RMW I'd say the kit designer has boobed, though no one's mentioned it, and from this photo you can see the solebars protrude below the headstock. IIRC the solebar should be 9" deep (can Paul confirm?) so a quick measure and you'd soon know if the solebar is too deep or the headstock not deep enough and adjust accordingly.

Bit of a faff either way though for what should be a straightforward build

Umm I won't comment on etch kits, I'm sure there are some that are accurate, but I think you'll find far more accuracy from the plastic kit manufacturer's in 7mm, although they tend to use generic underframes which can mean some of the plates and bolts are in the wrong places.

Was it on here that Exactoscale 7mm was mentioned? I was really surprised to see they offered components for 9 in and 12 in solebars. When we were measuring I have a recollection of us finding an elderly wagon with a 9in solebar and being surprised, but 10 in. is the usual standard, and there are 12in. solebars. It was something that went the rounds in my earliest modelling days that solebars were 9in, but as I say something that I believe ended a long time ago. 9 in. is in use for a steel frame on the 1906 RCH minerals of 8, 10 and 12ton but not for a steel frame on a 15 tonner of 1903 - see in your copy of
Watts, A J (1998) Private owner wagons from the Ince Waggon & Ironworks Co. Publ Historical Model Railway Society. 190 pages ISBN 0 902 835 25 4

I don't know much about this manufacturer, but I suspect they are used to elderly prototypes which are accurate for a 9in, solebar
Paul Bartlett

 

[adrian]

Looking back at the 4mm thread on RMW I'd say the kit designer has boobed, though no one's mentioned it, and from this photo you can see the solebars protrude below the headstock. IIRC the solebar should be 9" deep (can Paul confirm?) so a quick measure and you'd soon know if the solebar is too deep or the headstock not deep enough and adjust accordingly.

I found that photo too, irrespective of which bit is wrong and depending on how well the end stanchions are fixed, it might be easier to make a couple of slightly deeper dummy overlays for the buffer beams than filing the solebars.

 

[hrmspaul]

I found that photo too, irrespective of which bit is wrong and depending on how well the end stanchions are fixed, it might be easier to make a couple of slightly deeper dummy overlays for the buffer beams than filing the solebars.

I agree, how could the length of the solebar be reduced without losing the bottom lip? It is very likely that the headstock is wrong. Adding a strip to the bottom of the headstock may be possible.

Paul Bartlett

 

[SteveO]

You are all diamonds. I can now take my self-imposed dunces cap off, thanks to Adrian's excellent research.

Ta very much!

 

[Buckjumper]

When we were measuring I have a recollection of us finding an elderly wagon with a 9in solebar and being surprised, but 10 in. is the usual standard, and there are 12in. solebars. It was something that went the rounds in my earliest modelling days that solebars were 9in, but as I say something that I believe ended a long time ago.

Thanks Paul. LNER wagons are a bit modern for me; I'm more used to dealing with GE wagons with 9" steel and 12" wooden solebars.

 

[SteveO]

I've spent a very pleasant evening with my rivet punch and files preparing the washer plates for fitting - there's quite a few to put on at this stage of the build and all of them are fiddly. I think I'm going to elect to use the torch for fitting these, after tinning. I can't imagine how quickly I'd lose patience soldering 12 plates on to each wagon with an iron - and some of them are half etches too!

Just to clear up previous queries and problems, after measuring, it is indeed the buffer beam which is etched too shallow. If you study the picture Buckjumper linked to you can see the stanchions hang below the buffer beam too, as they do on mine. I've been keeping a pile of waste etch so I'll use some of that to extend the buffer beams. Quite a tricky job I imagine, as I'll have to butt-join on a thin slice.

Also, in the absence of any evidence of the infamous 'Cov B' I'm electing to build a Dia 161, which seems the logical choice. I've just ordered an LNER wagon book from our Simon so I'll have a quick flick through as a sort of last rites on the Cov B when it arrives. Otherwise, hopefully the book should provide some prototype information on the 161 and what was left of them in BR days. Some numbers would be good too.

No pics this time but I'll put some up when they're on.

 

[SteveO]

I managed to snatch a few minutes tonight to bend my corner plates so all my washer plates are ready for soldering.



I have a few questions from more knowledgable folk, if I may?

Firstly, riveting. How on earth do I get the punch to be central in the width? I've worked out that one of two things are the problem: first that the punch is too small, but I don't think it is as I'm using the 7mm punch that came with it; or that the half-etched holes are too big for me to effectively centre the punch reliably. There is a third option, that I may not be taking enough time to find the centre. It would probably take quite a few minutes on each rivet to do this though, and with some sort of magnifying lens. I'm stumped.

Using a picture of my prototype from Paul B's reference here, there are a few more washer plates to make which are not supplied in the kit. Namely, a riveted plate above the vent, one at the height of the top door runner and maybe some sort of door stop in the closed position. So my second question is how do I make a half-etched divet so I could make some washer plates? My guess is to very carefully use a drill from behind until I feel it's deep enough but I'd appreciate anyone with experience of doing this sharing tips or advice.

Cheers

 

[adrian]

I have a few questions from more knowledgable folk, if I may?

Firstly, riveting. How on earth do I get the punch to be central in the width?

I wouldn't really classify myself as more knowledgeable as I've not done that many wagons. However my experience from loco building is that riveting thin thin strips is a nightmare! It usually distorts the metal which ends up being bent in all three dimensions!.

So it's probably not much help to you but my method for riveting thin strips is for scratch building - I use soft nickel silver so you don't need the half-etched divot, I use the guide on the rivet tool to give me a straight line of rivets and I'll rivet on a sheet of nickel silver a good 1/8" away from the edge. Only when I have finished riveting do I actually mark up either side of the rivets and cut out the component.

 

[SteveO]

Thanks Adrian, I may use the (rather flimsy) guide on the next batch - I'll still have to eye up the centre so trial and error is still involved, but it should be better I hope. I punched these while still on the fret to save the distortion so I'll have to cut them off to use the guide and risk the distortion. Another swings and roundabouts problem!

 

[SteveO]

When I were a lad in Suffolk, my old buddies and I used to spend most of our youth in pubs, bars and clubs chatting up the ladies. One particular mate never got involved in all that - he'd hang back by the bar. However, come chucking out time he would pounce on the biggest and baddest girl there. I can't remember a time when he'd fail to pull. We'd take the p*ss but he'd just say "She's good enough to learn on!" and off he'd go. After a bit of time we'd developed a code word for his 'type'. Back in the late 80s/early 90s it seemed that every driving instructor's car was a Nissan Micra, so Micra became our code word. These kits are my Micras.



This is the first time I've soldered anything so I'm not sure I should be getting out of my depth on my first crack at it. That means the shallow buffer beams are staying as they are, I'll just disguise them somehow. I will add some washer plates, though - one above each vent and maybe more elsewhere. In fact, there are so many missing details I could spend all my time rectifying them. Using this shot as a reference, the corner plates at the roof reach the stanchions but mine don't, washer plates are missing from above the vents and some 2/3rds down the ends, there is some planking all along the body at the roofline which is totally absent on mine and finally, the (closed) door stops.

Following the Micra code, I'm not too worried about these, as long as I'm learning something along the way. These will be modelled as beaten up old vans nearing the end of their lives.

 

[3 LINK]

Hi Steve,

Are you using a riveting tool and if so what make ? Sorry if you have mentioned it earlier, have not got the time to trawl through the threads at this moment.

Firstly there is no exact written rule regarding the size of the half etched holes, they can vary a lot from different suppliers.

I have the GW riviting tool ( local man, Lancing ) and with that tool comes several riveting heads.

What I do is offer the different heads up to the etch to find the one that sits firmly in the half etched hole, then and this might sound crazy but I do not hold the etch tight but I sort of ( hover ) for want of a better word the etch up into the rivet point and as soon as I feel it locate home, I press down and job done.

I have done tender and cab sides you name it and it's always worked for me, hope this is of some help.

Martyn.

 

[SteveO]

Hi Steve,
Are you using a riveting tool and if so what make ?... I have the GW riviting tool ( local man, Lancing )
Martyn.

Hello Martyn, I have the same one from the same chap. I went round to his gaff to pick it up and gave me a lengthy demo on his kitchen table. Really nice bloke. He had some scrap Finney etches that he was demo'ing with and they seemed like a breeze. He gave me a go and they all lined up from the first to last rivet.

I think the problem with these etches are that they are blown up 4mm kits so the half etches are out of proportion and HUGE. All the rivet punches I've got just float around in the divots - there's acres of space in there and lining them up in the centres is really difficult without some sort of aid. Any more that I have to do I will remove from the sheet and try to use the guide, as Adrian suggested - this may help.

 

[Dog Star]

Current issue of Steam Days has a feature on the line between Ipswich and Yarmouth... with two nice photos of Westerfield. One is circa 1937 and one is circa 1956.

regards, Graham

 

[SteveO]

Thanks Graham, I'll see if there's a stockist somewhere round here.

 

[40126]

These are coming along nicely, SteveO

Steve

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Steve, I missed this when you posted it.

They are coming along a treat. Whose castings etc. do you plan to use? I recall that the ones that I had in 4mm you had to source your own. Which wasn't too bad as the Dart castings/MJT range catered for them.

 

[SteveO]

Thanks chaps, although I wish I had more time to get a move on with the soldering. At the moment I manage to salvage an hour or so here and there, which isn't really enough time to heat up the iron, do a bit of work, clean up and cool down - I need 2 or 3 hours at least. And when I do find myself with a bit of time I'm nowhere near my soldering kit!

Rob, I got my bits from a number of sources, most from Reading in December. Haywood wheels, pipes and couplings from Gladiator, vac cylinder from ABS and buffers from Model Graphics (an old defunct brand I think). All they need is for me to get my Rs in gear!

 

[SteveO]

I've been stacked at work recently but today found myself with a couple hours to spare. What to do – I could get ahead of myself on a big project I have in the studio, potentially saving a few headaches further down the road...

Instead I switched the iron on. It's been a while coming as I've taken the vans to the club at least twice hoping to have some quiet time there but it hasn't worked out. So instead of saving myself some grief later at work I sweated the frames to the doors and put the stops on the body. It's been four months since I've actually done anything worthwhile to these!



Here they are fresh from a wash. I'm not sure when my next session will be.

 

[lancer1027]

Great to see some more progress Steve.. They are taking shape now

Rob

 

[SteveO]

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know I haven't been neglecting my duties. On and off for the last couple weeks I've been preparing the door furniture so I can finish them off and solder them to the bodies.

Clockwise from top left we have door handles, rollers, corner washer plates and door locks. The rollers and locks have not been folded up yet so look a bit odd.



I'd like some advice please. As these small parts have been manhandled to punch them, cut them, file and fold them, how can I get them clean for soldering? I can't really use a toothbrush on something a few millimeters across. Can I put them in a container containing a drop of washing up liquid and some water, shake them up a bit and rinse in a strainer? That was my immediate thought but I'm not sure that would do the trick completely.