7mm Welsh Narrow Gauge Quarry Railways in 7mm scale

PhilH

Western Thunderer
So I acquired a Bachmann NG7 UNA without really working out what to do with it, the main reason, or should I say excuse, being that I spent a day driving the prototype some 30 odd years ago on the Festiniog Railway, albeit mainly within the confines of Minffordd Yard. That on its own would not have deserved any mention at all here on WT, but I did decide to get the DCC sound version and after running it up and down on a spare length of 00 gauge track came to the conclusion that this deserves a layout of some sort, more on that later. This is a problem, because with two other layouts in the house I've run out of spare rooms ! Unfortunately I find myself slipping deeper and deeper into this 'rabbit hole' and I've since acquired a second loco and a few wagons, but first a bit of history.

I first 'met' UNA about 1959 at Pen-yr-Orsedd Slate Quarry in the Nantlle Valley. With a school friend we used to spend the summer school holidays exploring the railways of North Wales, including the various slate quarries then still operating with rail transport. In those days before Heath & Safety legislation nobody seemed to mind a couple of schoolboys wandering about unsupervised. At Pen-yr-Orsedd Quarry we were taken to a small shed, the doors were opened and inside were two small steam locomotives by then out of use and replaced by a Ruston diesel loco. These were the two Hunslets UNA and BRITOMART.


1. 049B © PGH.jpg

I took a photo through the doorway showing the front of one loco, but I don't know whether it was UNA or BRITOMART nearest to the door. The date of 1960 has been quoted when they finished working at the quarry but in actual fact its probably slightly earlier than that, the last photographs I have showing them working are dated 1956. UNA was later sold for preservation in 1965.


2. 13618B © PGH.jpg

The next time I saw UNA was in October 1970 when it arrived at Gilfach Ddu, Llanberis, with several other locos acquired by Hills and Bailey, who had taken over the old FIRE QUEEN shed to use as a workshop. It was then just bare frames (minus buffer beams), wheels and cylinders, boiler (minus smokebox) and a rivetted water tank, presumably the original. Its shown above waiting to be unloaded with the ex Penrhyn Quarry O&K EIGIAU. The work to restore the loco is covered in detail in Cliff Thomas' book on the Quarry Hunslets, mostly carried out by Tony Hills with the final assembly completed by the museum staff after its sale to the Slate Museum in December 1977. As initially restored it had a new welded water tank fitted with round sandboxes on each side (as originally supplied by Hunslet) and it was painted red, I think a somewhat brighter red than the livery carried by the Llanberis Lake Railway locos at that time.


3. CS059B © PGH.jpg

UNA with a demonstration freight train on the Lake Railway at Gilfach Ddu in August 1983 waiting to enter the loop line, with the LLR's ELIDIR in the background just running round the passenger train standing in the platform. The first wagon is a Dinorwic slate wagon body and frame mounted on a steel chassis.

I believe the story behind the change to the green livery was that someone from the Nantlle Area, possibly a former quarry worker, told the museum staff that the locos were green. Maybe they were confused with DOROTHEA at the nearby Dorothea Quarry which was originally painted dark olive green, probably faded over time to a lighter shade of green. The tank mounted sandboxes were removed at the same time.

During this 'Green Period' UNA visited the FR for the Hunslet 100 Gala in May 1993 along with DOLBADARN from the Llanberis Lake Railway, and several other Hunslets. Apparently the museum staff were not available for the event so the Lake Railway staff operated UNA over the weekend, and being a regular Sunday driver on the LLR I was asked to drive it on the Bank Holiday Monday. It was to be single crewed (no fireman) as we normally operated on the LLR. The day started early at Boston Lodge and we set off for Minffordd with DOLBADARN leading, followed by IRISH MAIL, a line of empty tip wagons and UNA at the rear. I was told by the Festiniog pilot man don't do any pushing or we'll have the wagons off the track, so I applied a small amount of steam for the cylinder lubricators and then just admired the scenery on the way.


4. C8117+18B © PGH.jpg

At Minffordd Yard IRISH MAIL was on 'drive an engine' duty at the far (BR) end of the yard while UNA and DOLBADARN spent the day shunting the tip wagons. The new volunteer hostel was under construction at the time with work in progress excavating for the foundations. The excavated material was loaded into a small dumper and driven round to the high level chute formerly used to transfer coal from main line wagons into FR wagons, where the tip wagons were loaded. UNA and DOLBADARN then exchanged the full wagons for empties in the sidings alongside the FR main line. This was coordinated with BRITOMART running into the yard on the shuttle passenger train between the yard and Minffordd Station, thus there was some movement although intermittent at times in the yard all day. Coincidently acting as guard on that train was the school friend who accompanied me on the 1959 visit to Pen-yr-Orsedd.


5. C8120B © PGH.jpg

During the day I took the opportunity to park UNA in a suitable spot for a portrait.


6. C8121B © PGH.jpg

......and with a wagon being loaded. At the end of the day we returned to Boston Lodge with the loaded tip wagons and the gravity slate train. I caused some amusement to the bystanders on Minffordd Station when approaching the gravity train to couple up. It had just stopped after being pulled out of the sidings by IRISH MAIL and the wagon couplings had started to open up on the gradient. I wasn't sure if I'd left enough room for all the couplings to open so decided to do a quick reverse to avoid being thumped by the end wagon !


7. 002B © PGH.jpg

The change back to red livery, a rather dull dark shade, is probably an attempt to get it back to the livery as supplied by Hunslet, i.e. Midland Railway Crimson Lake, but I'm still not sure they've got it quite right. Photo taken at the museum in 2011.


8. 045B © PGH.jpg

UNA and BRITOMART together at an event on the Llanberis Lake Railway in 2014.


9. Bachmann UNA 2.jpg

With regard to the model itself, my photographs at Minffordd were taken in bright sunshine so it might appear a bit lighter than it actually was, but even so I think the Bachmann green is a little too dark and possibly a different shade. As that colour hasn't existed for some time on the real loco maybe Bachmann have taken the colour from photographs. The other possibility is that they've taken the colour from DOROTHEA at the Launceston Steam Railway which is fairly dark green from photographs (I haven't seen it myself since it was restored) but not used that for the model because it has a different shaped cab opening.
I can understand Bachmann fitting vacuum pipes to this loco as no doubt many modellers will wish to use it with passenger coaches, but UNA has never been fitted with vacuum brakes. The tank handrail has always been polished brass since restored in preservation, but it is too small in diameter - 0.45mm whereas it should be 0.58mm (the prototype is 1" dia.). A quick check on length over buffer beams and wheelbase shows these are about correct, but the overall (footplate) width is about 2½ mm over what it should be - prototype 5'-4" which scales at 37.33mm whereas the model is 40mm, presumably due to being made for 16.5mm gauge track instead of 14mm. I do like the DCC/sound set up with the exhaust sound responsive to very slight changes of power. A delay in start up when power is applied and long coast to a stop with power off controlled by a brake are just like the real thing. The opening firebox door with flickering red/yellow LED inside is a nice touch.

tbc
 
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Osgood

Western Thunderer
The plum colour suits UNA to a T.
The name BRITOMART is unusual, so I had to look it up - Wiki is quite helpful but nothing seems to jump out as an obvious source for the loco name.
But there might be a tenuous link - a character of the same name in a late 1500s play titled Faerie Queen leads me to wonder if there is a link to FIRE QUEEN of the Padarn Railway.
Can you throw any light on it Phil?
 
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timbowales

Western Thunderer
The purple colour suits UNA to a T.
The name BRITOMART is unusual, so I had to look it up - Wiki is quite helpful but nothing seems to jump out as an obvious source for the loco name.
But there might be a tenuous link - a character of the same name in a late 1500s play titled Faerie Queen leads me to wonder if there is a link to FIRE QUEEN of the Padarn Railway.
Can you throw any light on it Phil?
Intriguingly the LNWR also used the name for a somewhat larger loco, an "Experiment" 4-6-0!
 

PhilH

Western Thunderer
The plum colour suits UNA to a T.
The name BRITOMART is unusual, so I had to look it up - Wiki is quite helpful but nothing seems to jump out as an obvious source for the loco name.
But there might be a tenuous link - a character of the same name in a late 1500s play titled Faerie Queen leads me to wonder if there is a link to FIRE QUEEN of the Padarn Railway.
Can you throw any light on it Phil?

According to Cliff Thomas in 'Quarry Hunslets of North Wales' the names BRITOMART and UNA derive from Edmund Spencer's 'The Faerie Queene', in which Una was apparently a beautiful virgin representing truth and virtue.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Ah, well at least Spencer's epic poem is the source (I mistakenly described it as a play) - thanks.
 
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alastairq

Western Thunderer
From wikipedia, quote

Book III is centred on the virtue of Chastity as embodied in Britomart, a lady knight. Resting after the events of Book II, Guyon and Arthur meet Britomart, who wins a joust with Guyon. They separate as Arthur and Guyon leave to rescue Florimell, while Britomart rescues the Redcrosse Knight. Britomart reveals to the Redcrosse Knight that she is pursuing Sir Artegall because she is destined to marry him. The Redcrosse Knight defends Artegall and they meet Merlin, who explains more carefully Britomart's destiny to found the English monarchy. Britomart leaves and fights Sir Marinell. Arthur looks for Florimell, joined later by Sir Satyrane and Britomart, and they witness and resist sexual temptation. Britomart separates from them and meets Sir Scudamore, looking for his captured lady Amoret. Britomart alone is able to rescue Amoret from the wizard Busirane. Unfortunately, when they emerge from the castle Scudamore is gone. (The 1590 version with Books I–III depicts the lovers' happy reunion, but this was changed in the 1596 version which contained all six books.)

1920px-Walter_Crane_-_Britomart_%281900%29.jpg


attributed to:-
Walter Crane - Britomart (1900)
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Great post Phil, and so very lucky to have seen them in their natural habitat.

When last I was at BL, I asked RobCo if he wanted Britomart cleaned, and I’m sure his response, was something along the lines of nah, don’t worry about it. It’s 60 year old paint so won’t get it any shinier than it already is.

Looking forward to receiving the 14mm Britomart, and an Una is very tempting as well. Recently saw that Chaloner was also resident as Pen-Yr-Orsedd.

Oh the possibilities.

JB.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Has the frame width been increased from original on the 16.5mm gauge production model in order to accommodate the wider gauge?
If so, I guess the 14mm conversion does not address this?
 

alastairq

Western Thunderer

Andrew Young

Active Member
@PhilH Cracking photos there.

Regarding the vacuum pipe on the Una model, my suspicion is that it’s part of the chassis casting and they’ve used the same moulding for both the Britomart and the Una models. It being correct on Britomart.

As for the green livery, knowing the chap at Bachmann who’s been heavily involved in bringing these NG7 models to the market, I suspect he’s used colour photos that he took at the time of Una as he was a Talyllyn volunteer in the lates 1980s / early 1990s and told me he’d made trips to Llanberis at the time.

Looking forward to seeing how this diversion unfolds.

Andrew
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
The plum colour suits UNA to a T.
The name BRITOMART is unusual, so I had to look it up - Wiki is quite helpful but nothing seems to jump out as an obvious source for the loco name.
But there might be a tenuous link - a character of the same name in a late 1500s play titled Faerie Queen leads me to wonder if there is a link to FIRE QUEEN of the Padarn Railway.
Can you throw any light on it Phil?
Britomart is also now a shopping centre and hotel in Auckland, NZ. It was so-named after a headland in Waitematā (Auckland) harbour - that has since been quarried away. I've always wondered Britomart got its name (the shopping centre sounds like a brand), and will have to dig further.

Every day's a school day...

Cheers

Jan
 

Rob R

Western Thunderer
Has the frame width been increased from original on the 16.5mm gauge production model in order to accommodate the wider gauge?
If so, I guess the 14mm conversion does not address this?
I seem to remember that they are 3ft between frames so perhaps someone could kindly run a rule over one?.(The Bachmann one that is...)
 
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PhilH

Western Thunderer
I seem to remember that they are 3ft between frames so perhaps someone could kindly run a rule over one?.(The Bachmann one that is...)

The Bachmann one is 23.5mm over frames so the whole thing is 2.5mm wider. The slate wagons are also wider by 3mm but OK for length, and they're a compromise anyway because they should have double flanged wheels.

Best not to worry about things you can't alter :rolleyes:
 

PhilH

Western Thunderer
Recently saw that Chaloner was also resident as Pen-Yr-Orsedd.
JB.

Yes, it was ready to leave when I made another visit to Pen-yr-Orsedd in 1960

10. 102B © PGH.jpg

Chained to a Nantlle Tramway flat wagon it would probably been lowered down an incline to the terminus of the Nantlle Tramway where there was road access. Its a bit blurred but it was only the third photo I'd taken on a new 35mm camera and I obviously hadn't got the hang of keeping it steady !
The quarry also still had another DeWinton PENDYFFRYN which is now in the VoR museum at Aberystwyth and the Kerr Stuart 0-4-0T DIANA which I believe is now based at the Amerton Railway.


11. 103B © PGH.jpg

On the same visit I took this photo looking down into the pit. Note the ladders right of centre, down which the men had to climb to get to work and then back up at the end of the day - hardy souls these Welsh quarrymen !
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Has the frame width been increased from original on the 16.5mm gauge production model in order to accommodate the wider gauge?
If so, I guess the 14mm conversion does not address this?
A recent review in Railway Toddler confirmed the frame is over width, for that very reason. Also, the piston rods are off-centre in the cylinders, also to accomodate over-wide RTR wheels as well as the gauge.
Once seen, cannot be un-seen.....
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Hi Phil,

is that part of the Dorothea pits? I used to scuba dive in there quite regularly, 30-odd years back. Looking at Google maps just now, it seems to have filled up a bit more over the intervening years, and it looks like someone has built a jetty! Perhaps it’s reached a level where more rain drains off into the river.

The visible path turned left, into the bay to the East, there were two huts, and then the path continued down, turning tightly to the right.

In the “bay” at the north, there is a 360 degree dragline excavator/loader, it had tracks, and wasn’t very big, but I don’t remember much more about it. The jib was demounted and lying to one side, maybe about 25’ long? When I was diving, it was about 30metres deep, I’d guess it’s a bit more now.

The quarry is very deep, 200 metres or more. Sadly a number of divers have pushed things too far and died in there, and I know there were efforts to close the place off. A shame because it was, when treated with respect, an ideal training location. The water is incredibly clear, but it’s very dark, of course.

atb
Simon
 

PhilH

Western Thunderer
Hi Phil,

is that part of the Dorothea pits? I used to scuba dive in there quite regularly, 30-odd years back. Looking at Google maps just now, it seems to have filled up a bit more over the intervening years, and it looks like someone has built a jetty! Perhaps it’s reached a level where more rain drains off into the river.

The visible path turned left, into the bay to the East, there were two huts, and then the path continued down, turning tightly to the right.

In the “bay” at the north, there is a 360 degree dragline excavator/loader, it had tracks, and wasn’t very big, but I don’t remember much more about it. The jib was demounted and lying to one side, maybe about 25’ long? When I was diving, it was about 30metres deep, I’d guess it’s a bit more now.

The quarry is very deep, 200 metres or more. Sadly a number of divers have pushed things too far and died in there, and I know there were efforts to close the place off. A shame because it was, when treated with respect, an ideal training location. The water is incredibly clear, but it’s very dark, of course.

atb
Simon

Simon,
No that photo was of the Pen-yr-Orsedd Pit, the photo below is Dorothea:


12. 336B © PGH.jpg

This was taken from the south side of the pit about 1960, and I think it shows your excavator on the far (north) side, shown in a cruel blow up of the photo below


13. 336BB © PGH.jpg

Its obviously a crane or dragline and I suspect the latter, with the dark object behind it being the bucket. Maybe it was used to remove loose material round the higher edges of the pit levels to prevent it falling down into the working area below.
Another photo looking further down would have been useful but maybe I was reluctant to lean over as the south side of the pit had more of a vertical drop, protected only by a low wall, a blurred section of which is just visible in the bottom left hand corner of the photo.
Note the wooden frame just on the lower right hand edge of the photo. This would be the headframe of an inclined rope (originally chain) system used to raise and lower wagons from the lower reaches of the pit. To place wagons on or take them off the rope a platform would be pushed out on the horizontal timbers projecting over the edge. This type of system would have preceded the 'Blondin' ropeways which spanned across the full length of the pit.


14. 336B © PGH.jpg

This view is from the opposite side of the pit taken at the same time, unfortunately looking into the sun, showing the almost vertical wall of the upper reaches of the south side of the pit. On the top edge of the pit from right to left is first the beam pumping engine house (now a scheduled ancient monument) which drained the pit until its replacement by electric pumps; then three inclined rope system headframes; with two more on top of the high revetment in the centre of the photo. These latter two would have been used to raise waste up to the top of the tip level extending off the photo to the left, where the Hunslet DOROTHEA worked until circa 1942, and was then left derelict in its shed just behind the building on top of the revetment. It was rescued for preservation in 1970 from the ruins of its shed which by then had collapsed around it. The main slate mill is on the lower level just off the photo to the left. The Blondin ropeways are top right and across the centre of the photo. Behind the beam engine house on the right is the separate pit of the South Dorothea Quarry.

An article in the Quarry Manager's Journal in 1964 on the modernisation scheme introduced at that time gave the maximum depth at 500 feet, but working at that depth became uneconomic due to difficulties with water ingress, and other accounts give the depth of the pumping engine shaft as only 155 yards. The lower level was therefore used for dumping waste and it gave the current (1964) depth of the pit as 440 feet. The scheme included the provision of a Chaseside hydraulic loader and two Dodge trucks fitted with rock bodies to untop a new area of slate in the north east corner of the pit, the area top right in the first photo. However it was apparently unsuccessful as the quarry closed in 1970.
 
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simond

Western Thunderer
Thanks Phil, that’s very interesting.

The excavator looks exactly as I remember. It was surely a dragline as it had the drag winch arrangement (and the guide rollers) centrally on the front of the main body, roughly at driver‘s foot level. The tracked bogie is smaller than the main body, again as I recall.

I’m struggling a little to orient myself, it doesn’t appear quite as I recall! Is your top photo looking North East, with the pointed promontory to the right? The road/ramp was in the NW, and curved down to the left around the peninsula, could be the road in your photo, but it does not appear steep enough. There were two huts, quite close together, (about 18m down, which I recall to be a SE of the jetty, could be the huts in your photo) and then there was a hairpin right that took one to the plateau where the excavator (about 30m) was. If you search on Google maps, there appear to be a couple of buoys in the northern “bay”, and I think the excavator is the southern one - roughly in the middle of the bay.

I guess the excavator had moved down, and quite a long way to the left (NW) in your photo, by the time I visited.

IMG_2729.png

I also recognise the old pumping house. It’s good to hear that it is being protected, but how that will take place, from a funding point of view, remains to be seen. There’s a story that there was a gallery between the two pits well below (200’?) the pump house in which a couple of early mixed gas divers pushed their luck too far. I can’t see it in your photo.

Talking of depth, I’d heard “600 feet” and “500 feet”, I do recall a post dive discussion with a pal who had got some info from the library. Our conclusion was that the bottom of the quarry was significantly below sea level. I recall he had a photocopy picture with a dump truck which despite being obviously a decent sized bit of kit, appeared very tiny indeed!

There may have been remains of the blondins when I was visiting, but I don’t recall them. The massive buttresses were (probably still are) very obvious.


thanks again
Simon
 
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