Wheels for 03 & 04 shunters?

Discussion in 'Talk' started by SteveO, 14 February 2014.

  1. Meld9003

    Meld9003 Member

    I think all wheels where the same. The wheels nearest the cab on the D2041 have the split (I can just make out the vertical line on my monitor), but I think it is hidden on the front wheel by grime.
  2. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    If not they are certainly easily re- profiled :thumbs:;)

  3. pcalkel

    pcalkel Active Member

    I would doubt that he will offer with S7 tyres as the width is narrower than fine scale tyres and this would require a new mould tool

  4. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    The wheels for the 04 are here! Also heard today that the etches are ready for despatch. It's getting closer!

    Pugsley, AJC, lancer1027 and 3 others like this.
  5. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    I don't wish to appear to be to be picky - but the woodgrain moulding detail on the inside of the axle packing crate is noticeable by its absence…...:rolleyes:

    I guess Eastside Pilot will have no trouble creating a Scale 7 variant from these beauties?
  6. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    I'm sure MMP will release a detailing kit for it!

    I think I hear a challenge for Colin. If I have any spares I don't mind posting off a set to him to try out. This message will self-destruct in, well, probably a couple months...
  7. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Any chance of a photo of the rear of the wheel? Also could you measure the thickness so we can work out how much can/needs to be turned off for S7. From the photo it looks like not much will be necessary as Slaters seem to be continuing their gradual improvement of the 'finescale' profile.
  8. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Yep, should not be a problem :thumbs: , if their to Slater's current standard, which I don't doubt they are.
    ATB with your sales Steve.

  9. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    Uploading this from my phone so hope it works. The backs of the 03 and 04 wheels...

    Attached Files:

  10. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Thanks Steve. The wheels look very good, Slaters have done themselves proud and really captured the look of the two types of wheel. It would be easy to add a part overlay if anyone wants to model the version of 03 wheel with different thickness balance weights.
  11. alcazar

    alcazar Guest

    One wonders why Slaters have taken as long as this to produce a genuine wheel...given that 03 kits have been around for a while?
  12. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    I think it's a simple matter of nobody has asked for them before now - that's the most surprising part. Plus there have been a few variations of wheel size, which can be expensive if only, say, 20 kits are going to be sold per year with a total of 5 different wheel sizes between those two prototypes.

    I got the etches delivered today. There seems to be something very wrong with them. I started getting concerned when G&H said that parts were dropping out of the etch, but I was assured that it would be sorted. I don't think it has at all. I'll give them a call tomorrow and find out what's gone wrong. If I have time I'll put a pic up later tonight.
  13. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    This shot shows two of the problems I'm facing – there are a few more. The corner of the footplate has fallen away, as have the tops of the balance weights on the jack shaft crank.


    They are having a look at it right now...
  14. AndyB

    AndyB Western Thunderer

    Hmmm...looks like a combination of some possibly optimistic finished part wall thicknesses in the design, a bit of over-etching and variation in the etching action over the sheet. I have noticed the latter on stuff from PPD to some extent.
    I did read somewhere of an etch designer who actually varied his artwork design parameters across a single sheet in order to account for the different 'aggressiveness' of the etchant in different parts of the tank. I assume they must have had a test sheet done of many nominally identical parts and measured the variation in order to work out by how much they needed to compensate....and had a very good working relationship with their etcher to know that sheets would always be oriented the same.

    You have my sympathies - I know just how annoying / disheartening it can be when your new shiny etch turns up and has problems like this.

  15. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    I agree with Andy, the fret hasn't been 'productionised' to allow for variations/tolerances in the etching process. It is a tricky thing to do well...
    I assume you bought the design (CAD files and artwork) rather than just the photo tools? If so it's not a tricky problem to solve, but you may need to pay for a new set of photo tools.
  16. djparkins

    djparkins Western Thunderer

    Looks like etch-factor not allowed for in the size of the holes/thin areas of metal etc. There are not nearly enough tags either and parts will sooner or later [during the the etching process] get caught and twisted back on themselves on some sheets.

    Not sure if thats an 04 or 03 sheet - but the checker plate style is certainly wrong for an 03. Don't know about the 04 but I thought thay were the same style as for an 03.
  17. djparkins

    djparkins Western Thunderer

    Yeah! - Like Hell!

    I'm sure you will get it well right! Enough for me to probably want a kit!
  18. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    Thanks all.

    Unfortunately, this is hand-drawn artwork from the 90s, so I expect a few discrepancies here and there. In fact, I have the original hand-drawn artwork at home. It's not perfect but it has been proven to work.

    That last sentence is important, as far as I see it. About 350 individual kits have been produced previous to my ownership and there have been no problems producing those. These were done by Chempix. However, Right Price moved their production to G&H, but at the time the 03 & 04 kits were no longer produced.

    This is where I step in and resume production at G&H. Producing the etches is now a problem. So, what has happened – or what is different between these two companies, where one can successfully produce an etch and another cannot?

    G&H say the artwork is wrong. Right Price says there has never been a problem before now. I'm left in the middle with a pile of bought and paid for scrap.
  19. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer


    Not a great situation to be in, I can understand that. I hope you didn't order a production quantity...:confused:

    There are a good few solutions, but the two most obvious to me are:
    1. Move production back to Chempix. If they can produce the fret, use 'em.
    2. Copy the artwork and amend it to allow for greater etching tolerances or (more to the point) greater variability in the etching tolerance. I.e. you want 'graceful degradation' if the fret over etches in that it remains useable even if this happens. I also agree with DJP on the subject of tabs, you probably need a few more to prevent parts being snagged off, but it may only be worth making that change if you're playing with the artwork for other reasons.

    As an aside, it is very rare in production terms to be able to shift suppliers for bespoke items. Different manufacturers will have different ways of solving the problems and producing items. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about photo-etched brass sheets, lost wax castings or (my experience) printed circuit boards, motion picture film, audio cables, integrated circuits, etc. etc. If a client starts talking about moving production to alternative sources that's the point at which things start to get 'interesting'*!

    I hope G&H have provided you with some more positive feedback than just 'it's wrong' so you can apply their thoughts - it has the potential to help so your etch tool becomes more tolerant of production variance/deviation**.


    * For which read 'the point at which Dale has to demonstrate he's worth his fee'!.
    ** You're actually in to 'deviation' territory here; the processes used to produce frets at Chempix will be different to those used at G&H.
  20. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    From your photo it looks like parts are over etched. This could result from being left in the etchant too long but it could also be caused by etching thicker metal or the difference between nickel silver and brass. Varying amounts of etching across the sheet point to production issues, basically lack of control. I am not sure whether Chempix use spray etching, aerated tanks or agitated tanks but everything I have seen produced by them has been extremely consistent, maybe your current etchers aren't quite as well set up to get the most out of older artwork.

    You could try having some thinner brass etched to see if it works. Might be time to scan the original artwork and trace it in CAD and then the footplate and louvre issues could be resolved as well. Happy to help with drafting if you need it.