Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thanks, Dave, for the advice about the route/destination.

Thanks to Mick as well for confirming the location of the German photos.

And then Arun. I'm better informed than ever!

Thank you, Martin, for that further background. All faithfully recorded.

Thanks to you, too, Paul. The facts rather than the rumours concerning the collapse of those towers is now in plain sight. I had no idea that three of the towers came down. I remember Ferrybridge well, passing it many times on the A1 when on my way to York or Scotland and once from an hotel boat on the River Aire where the derelict loading bay from the river could still be seen. I'm sad it's now gone but I understand that there are some power from waste generators there now. They don't have the majesty of the plants they replaced, though.

This plethora of information from so many sources is giving me a bit of a headache. It doesn't sit comfortably in the German Railway references but then it doesn't sit comfortably anywhere else. I am, however, proceeding to add it to the German Railway file as at least that way it won't get lost and if I can find a better location for it later I'll just extract it.

Once again, thanks to all. Keep it coming!

Brian

 

[mickoo]

Sadly not my photo, I very nearly did travel up and take my own, one of life's small regrets as I do so like industrial night photography.



For me the coal fired power stations (Drax, Ferrybridge, Eggborough etc) were all about 56's and MGR's in the early 80's, but not an area I got to visit sad to say, another of life's regrets.

 

[simond]

Hi Simon,

Another Porsche fan and previous owner here. I'm not sure about the rear wheels lifting of the ground at 120mph, the 2.2 S achieved a top speed of about 140mph and stayed on the road. The front end would get pretty light though. In the earlier days the rear spoilers would improve straight line stability and as they got more powerful, eg 2.7 RS, provided an element of downforce to provide more rear end grip in the corners.

Great cars,
Tim

Hi Tim,

I’ll have to go looking for the reference, if I can find it, perhaps this is a discussion for the Hairy Bikers & Petrol Heads thread!

I’ll add a snap of MrsD’s baby…

cheers
Simon

 

[oldravendale]

Sadly not my photo, I very nearly did travel up and take my own, one of life's small regrets as I do so like industrial night photography.

For me the coal fired power stations (Drax, Ferrybridge, Eggborough etc) were all about 56's and MGR's in the early 80's, but not an area I got to visit sad to say, another of life's regrets.

That's as I remember it, Mick. I'm very fond of well photographed industrial photos.

Hi Tim,

I’ll have to go looking for the reference, if I can find it, perhaps this is a discussion for the Hairy Bikers & Petrol Heads thread!

I’ll add a snap of MrsD’s baby…

cheers
Simon

I'm very happy for any continuation to be on here, Simon, but this won't be the first place petrolheads look for their fix. I'll chuck in to the mix my Jag XK. As I've never had it above 70 I'd not really know what you are talking about but, quite honestly, it's a very well behaved car unless you go through a tight bend and put your foot down too early. I'd always wondered what that rear "spoiler" was for....

Brian

 

[michael080]

Back to Germany and Rheine - Emden in March 1974. Here is oil burning pacific 012 063-4 on a passenger train, probably at Emden.

View attachment 210534

012 063-4 again with its already known luggage coach behind. This engine survived and is on display at the Braunschweig central station.

Michael

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

And here she is at Braunschweig Hbf 2013 (copyright as shown - from Bahnbilder).

You'll just never see this in the UK - a plinthed loco on public display. Imagine an A3 or A4 plinthed on the forecourt of Kings Cross or a Bulleid pacific plinthed at Waterloo! They'd be stripped bare by souviner hunters or covered in graffiti

 

[AJC]

The only one I can think of is this one: Have you met Robert the tank engine at Stratford?

I suppose the Tiverton 14xx falls into the same category.

It’s survived there for 20 plus years now - most of the others that did once exist are now in mainstream preservation, one way or another.

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

Michael, Dave and Adam. Thank you all for the info about locos on display. I share the concern that anything presented in that manner in the UK is likely to suffer at the hands of the vandals - and potentially the scrap man - but the one at Stratford perhaps suggests that is not always the case.

I spent yesterday at the very well attended GOG exhibition at Kettering and pass on my thanks to all those who made a point of commenting on this thread. I don't need any great encouragement to keep it going but it's really good to know that so many people find it valuable and interesting and are willing to contribute with comments and corrections. Thank you.

N Class Mogul 31410 on a local train from Tonbridge at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It had been a Stewarts Lane loco since at least 1948, moving to Norwood Junction in July 1963, Redhill in September and Guildford at the end of December - all in the same year - where it was withdrawn in November 1964. (BR Database and SLS). WHTS records it in store at Eastleigh in February 1965 and the LCGB reports it at Swansea East Dock awaiting transfer to Bird's, Morriston, on 28th February 1965. BR Database advise it was scrapped in March the same year.



Rebuilt Battle of Britain 34082 615 Squadron on a down boat train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Dover Marine in April 1958 and then to Nine Elms at the end of May 1961 - I suspect another book transfer in advance of the Kent Coast Electrification. It moved to Eastleigh in September 1964 and was withdrawn in April 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Newport in September 1966. (BR Database).


N Class 31404 on a Tonbridge to Dover local train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Tonbridge in February 1961, then Salisbury at the end of May 1962 (probably another transfer in advance of the electrification) and finally Guildford in September 1963 where it was withdrawn in December the same year. The Railway Observer reports that it arrived at Eastleigh between 9th December and 3rd January 1964 and was cut up there week ending 4th January 1964.



I'm sorry to say that, in view of the enthusiasm for these German photos, this part of the collection is coming to an end - probably only a couple more posts to go.

A sadly rather out of focus (probably) pacific at Rheine on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974.

Edit: Definitely an 012 - more than likely 012 063-4 as seen in previous posts (could also be 012 08x, or 012 06x).

Dave



Modern motive power - 220 079-8 probably at Rheine in March 1974.

Edit: Confirmed at Rheine.



...and more modern power with 110 407-4 at Rheine in March 1974.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

...and more modern power with 110 407-4 at Rheine in March 1974.

This is more like it, proper power ......

Originally E10 407 and is in as delivered blue livery here. One of Bügelfalte cab variants (creased/folded cab rather then the flat Einheits cab). Built by Krauss-Maffei in 1966. Allocation: 09/03/1966 Hamburg-Eidelstadt; 01/10/1979 Dortmund Hbf; 10/06/1998 Frankfurt (Main); 26/02/2007 withdrawn; 06/03/2007 scrapped. Liveries: 09/03/1966 stahlblau, 06/1980 ozean-blau/beige; 29/11/1993 orientrot; 30/11/2001 verkhersrot. During her time at Frankfurt (Main) she was fitted with wendezug (push -pull) equipment (30/11/2001).

There is a website dedicated to the E10 and also includes E40, E41 and E50 - Baureihe E10 e.V. » - which includes works record cards.

Modern motive power - 220 079-8 probably at Rheine in March 1974.

This is Rheine. The loco is a DB V200 built by Krauss-Maffei 02/07/1959; withdrawn 20/08/1980 and scrapped in 1986. Chances are this was based at Hamburg Altona. @mickoo do you have a copy of the EK book Die Baureihe V200. Die erste Großdiesellokomotive der Deutschen Bundesbahn
with more detail?

The coaches on the left are the classic silberling (silverfish) n-Wagen (n = nahverkehrs = local). These were built from 1959 to 1980 and at 26.4m (86' 7") a tad longer than the British Rail Mk 1 & 2 at 19.6m (64') and Mk 3 at 23m (75').

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A sadly rather out of focus (probably) pacific at Rheine on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974.

Definitely an 012 - more than likely 012 063-4 as seen in previous posts (could also be 012 08x, or 012 06x).

 

[Roger Pound]

A couple of memories regarding the " modern motive power". My late German friend told me that enthusiasts referred to the locos with Bugelfalte cabs as 'creased pants' cabs. It would seem that enthusiasts world wide have the habit of giving classes of locos nicknames.

The 220 reminded me of one afternoon in Bonn in 2011 when the sound of a heavy diesel engine was heard.The noise level increased and a preserved 220 with a similarly preserved train of passenger stock thundered through the station.

Happy days!

Roger.

 

[mickoo]

The only sound that beats a Maybach is a EMD 567 block

Deltics follow behind those two for me.

Dave, yes I do, will check later

 

[michael080]

The 220 reminded me of one afternoon in Bonn in 2011 when the sound of a heavy diesel engine was heard.The noise level increased and a preserved 220 with a similarly preserved train of passenger stock thundered through the station.

The only sound that beats a Maybach is a EMD 567 block

Actually two Maybachs engines in the V200 class.

 

[timbowales]

Sorry mickoo, I have to disagree there.
NOTHING beats a pair of Maybachs!
My 2nd place is a pair of Nimbus whilst my 3rd place is anything by ALCO/MLW thrashing north from Vancouver on BC Railway
Tim T

 

[adrian]

You'll just never see this in the UK - a plinthed loco on public display. Imagine an A3 or A4 plinthed on the forecourt of Kings Cross or a Bulleid pacific plinthed at Waterloo!

Not so quick there - we have the Pilling Pig.

 

[SimonT]

The only sound that beats a Maybach is a EMD 567 block

Trump that! Six Merlins and two Daimler-Benz DB601E in formation. North Weald at some anniversary of the B of B. Galland was the Guest of Honour.

 

[oldravendale]

Not so quick there - we have the Pilling Pig.

Thank you Adrian. You've reminded me about one of our own, although it's a half size repro. It's quite lovely, though, and although I've not inspected it looks as one drives past amazingly accurate.



Details are here. Metropolitan No.1 Train - Visit Amersham

Perhaps, with all the bad news, we get a biased view about the youth of today. However, Amersham is hardly an inner city ghetto, or maybe they just have a better class of hooligan.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

012 063-4 again with its already known luggage coach behind. This engine survived and is on display at the Braunschweig central station.

Michael

I failed to acknowledge your information on which Yorkshire Dave commented further. Apologies and thanks to both.

Thanks to Dave, Roger, Mick, Michael, Tim and SimonT for your enlightening and subjective discussion about the noise of various engines. However, nothing beats a Princess Coronation at full chat, and as I'm the owner of this thread I am, of course, correct. Thanks to Yorkshire Dave in particular for your objective comments on the diesel and electric locos.

Adrian - thanks for yours too. Any other un-vandalised plinthed locos we should now consider?

N Class 31854 as a Tunbridge Wells arrival in the bay at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. At first sight I thought this was the same location as the photo of a Standard 2-6-4T in post #3116 but that was at Tonbridge. 31854 had been allocated to Stewarts Lane since late in May 1961, moving to Exmouth Junction in August 1963 where it was withdrawn in June 1964. It was scrapped at Cohen's, Morriston, in December 1964.

Edit: Certainly Ashford, however the headcode indicates Ashford and Hastings. Therefore the train has arrived from Hastings via Rye.



West Country 34100 Appledore on the penultimate Saturday Golden Arrow at Tonbridge on 3rd June 1961. This was not strictly true as the Golden Arrow continued to be operated until the end of September 1972 so I believe this should read the penultimate Saturday steam hauled Golden Arrow... In fact Tim was linesiding again a week later and photographed the Golden Arrow again behind the same locomotive - see post #3144. The notes regarding the loco read: One of the BR built and then rebuilt West Country class locos 34100 Appledore had been a Stewarts Lane engine since February 1958 moving to Brighton in November 1962 where it was withdrawn on the cusp of the end of Southern steam in early July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport in October the same year. (BR Database).

Edit: This is Tonbridge as the name states on the end of the canopy.

This will be the penultimate steam hauled Saturday Golden Arrow. The last steam hauled Saturday Golden Arrow was on 10th June 1961 as in post #3144 with the last one being on Sunday 11th June 1961, again by 34100 Appledore. After which which it became electric hauled by the HA class of electric locos E5000-E5023 (Class 71).

The DEMU in the platform on the left is one of the 6 car Hastings 8' wide sets.

The Golden Arrow was a non-stop service between Victoria and Dover/Folkestone as passport control and customs checks were carried out at Victoria, sometimes on the train and on the ferry.

Likewise, as with the Night Ferry from Victoria to Dover. Again this was a non-stop train and it only ever stopped once in it's history at another station en-route to pick up a passenger - one Winston Churchill at Sevenoaks, being the closest station to Chartwell. In 1951 to attend a West European Defence conference in Paris.



Schools Class 30936 Cranleigh which Tim describes as on a Tunbridge to Ashford train arriving at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. However, that can't be correct as there is clearly a Standard 2-6-4T on a train immediately behind the Schools hauled train (see next photo). 30936 has been on these pages previously - see post #2627. It had been in and out of store at Bricklayers Arms since at least 1948 and went to Nine Elms in November 1961 where it was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). BR Database suggests that it also spent time at Ashford from June 1959 but that is not confirmed by the SLS. There are various sightings by SLS and LCGB of the loco in store at Eastleigh between May and September 1963 and WHTS records it as being scrapped there week ending 2nd November 1963.

Edit: 30936 Cranleigh Bricklayers Arms 6/35, Ashford 14/6/59, Nine Elms 9/11/61, Wdn 29/12/62, Stored Nine Elms 12/62 - 7/63,
Stored Eastleigh works 8/63 - 9/63, cut up Eastleigh works w/e 2/11/63. Irwell book of.

At Tonbridge as the lines in the background heads straight for Redhill and diverge right towards London. The Headcode on the Schools indicates Folkestone or Dover so this is likely to be forming a local service.



This is the train behind the Schools hauled train. It's Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80144 and Tim advises it to be on a Tonbridge to Eastbourne local train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. The loco moved to the Southern Region from Neasden in January 1960. The SLS does not advise the first shed allocation on the Southern but BR Database proposes it to have been Brighton. The SLS then picks up the story advising allocation to Redhill in December 1963, Salisbury in June 1965, Eastleigh in December 1965 and Nine Elms in February 1966 where it was withdrawn in May the same year. It was scrapped at Bird's, Bridgend, in September 1966. (BR Database).

Edit: The Tonbridge to Eastbourne train will go via Tunbridge Wells and Tunbridge Wells West to Eridge then either via Uckfield and Lewes or more than likely the 'Cuckoo Line' via Heathfield and Polegate. Note it is formed of restriction 0 Hastings stock.

There is a slight alarm bell in the distant recesses of my mind about the restrictions through Grove Tunnel between the Wells and West which I thought prevented Std 4 tanks passing through, more research I think.
Martin



I regret that I've run out of time to put up more German photos today - I want to get in to the workshop to do a bit more on the Royal Scot!

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

N Class 31854 as a Tunbridge Wells arrival in the bay at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. At first sight I thought this was the same location as the photo of a Standard 2-6-4T in post #3116 but that was at Tonbridge. 31854 had been allocated to Stewarts Lane since late in May 1961, moving to Exmouth Junction in August 1963 where it was withdrawn in June 1964. It was scrapped at Cohen's, Morriston, in December 1964.

Certainly Ashford, however the headcode indicates Ashford and Hastings. Therefore the train has arrived from Hastings via Rye.

West Country 34100 Appledore on the penultimate Saturday Golden Arrow at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. This was not strictly true as the Golden Arrow continued to be operated until the end of September 1972 so I believe this should read the penultimate Saturday steam hauled Golden Arrow... In fact Tim was linesiding again a week later and photographed the Golden Arrow again behind the same locomotive - see post #3144. The notes regarding the loco read: One of the BR built and then rebuilt West Country class locos 34100 Appledore had been a Stewarts Lane engine since February 1958 moving to Brighton in November 1962 where it was withdrawn on the cusp of the end of Southern steam in early July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport in October the same year. (BR Database).

Ermmmm.... this is Tonbridge as the name states on the end of the canopy.

This will be the penultimate steam hauled Saturday Golden Arrow. The last steam hauled Saturday Golden Arrow was on 10th June 1961 as in post #3144 with the last one being on Sunday 11th June 1961, again by 34100 Appledore. After which which it became electric hauled by the HA class of electric locos E5000-E5023 (Class 71).

The DEMU in the platform on the left is one of the 6 car Hastings 8' wide sets.

The Golden Arrow was a non-stop service between Victoria and Dover/Folkestone as passport control and customs checks were carried out at Victoria, sometimes on the train and on the ferry.

Likewise, as with the Night Ferry from Victoria to Dover. Again this was a non-stop train and it only ever stopped once in it's history at another station en-route to pick up a passenger - one Winston Churchill at Sevenoaks, being the closest station to Chartwell. In 1951 to attend a West European Defence conference in Paris.

Schools Class 30936 Cranleigh which Tim describes as on a Tunbridge to Ashford train arriving at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. However, that can't be correct as there is clearly a Standard 2-6-4T on a train immediately behind the Schools hauled train (see next photo). 30936 has been on these pages previously - see post #2627. It had been in and out of store at Bricklayers Arms since at least 1948 and went to Nine Elms in November 1961 where it was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). BR Database suggests that it also spent time at Ashford from June 1959 but that is not confirmed by the SLS. There are various sightings by SLS and LCGB of the loco in store at Eastleigh between May and September 1963 and WHTS records it as being scrapped there week ending 2nd November 1963.

This is the train behind the Schools hauled train. It's Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80144 and Tim advises it to be on a Tunbridge to Eastbourne local train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. The loco moved to the Southern Region from Neasden in January 1960. The SLS does not advise the first shed allocation on the Southern but BR Database proposes it to have been Brighton. The SLS then picks up the story advising allocation to Redhill in December 1963, Salisbury in June 1965, Eastleigh in December 1965 and Nine Elms in February 1966 where it was withdrawn in May the same year. It was scrapped at Bird's, Bridgend, in September 1966. (BR Database).

These two are also at Tonbridge as the lines in the background heads straight for Redhill and diverge right towards London. The Headcode on the Schools indicates Folkestone or Dover so this is likely to be forming a local service.

The Tonbridge to Eastbourne train will go via Tunbridge Wells and Tunbridge Wells West to Eridge then either via Uckfield and Lewes or more than likely the 'Cuckoo Line' via Heathfield and Polegate. Note it is formed of restriction 0 Hastings stock.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Brian,

sorry I missed you on Saturday, always surrounded by punters.

Agree with Dave, the last two are definitely Tonbridge.

regards

Mike