Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Martin - now I've had time to properly absorb the contents of your post, for which I'm very grateful, you've expanded my knowledge of the electrical power supply system. Also, as far as the Modified Hall is concerned, it appears that the SLS are in error as you suggest. The Locoshed Books for April 20th 1957, October 5th 1957, May 15th 1958 and October 3rd 1959 all show 6962 to have been an 81A Old Oak Common engine. Data duly updated and retained.

Thanks, Arun, for picking up on the Westernisation of that WD.

Then thanks, Wagonman, Roger and Dave for that hugely impressive lesson about those tiny shunters. All carefully preserved in a pdf which I've put in the attachments so you can see how the data is being kept. It's still a bit clunky but as a state registered technophobe I'm quite pleased that I've been able to get this far and things can only improve. (Thanks too, Dave, for your identification of the class of Pacific on that passenger train).

Now back to the LMS, including a pair of "quite interesting" pictures.

This is Princess 46207 Princess Arthur of Connaught shorn of nameplates and in store at Willesden on 18th June 1961 looking in wonderful condition. Tim photographed this loco in the same location on 24th February 1962 as shown in post #1742 so it was sadly in store for some time. 46207 was recorded as only a few weeks out of shops by the SLS when in store at Willesden and seen on 1st April 1961 where it had been allocated on the same day. In fact it had received a heavy intermediate at Crewe over 36 days, coming out of works on 3rd December 1960 and then a light casual over 31 days coming out of works on 11th February 1961. That's about six weeks between overhaul and going in to store. We expected to see a couple of years of work out of it at least but it was reinstated at Camden in August 1961 and back to Willesden in September the same year where it was withdrawn in November. It went to Crewe Works where it was scrapped in May 1962. See post #1404 for another photo of the loco at Euston. (All BR Database and SLS).



8F 48020 at Willesden on 18th June 1961. It had been a Bletchley engine since June 1950, went to Shrewsbury in October 1963 and then Northampton in October 1964 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg's, Newport where it was scrapped in February 1966. (WHTS and BR Database).



Two here of Black 5 44697 with self weighing tender at Willesden on 18th June 1961. It was on the Newton Heath allocation from May 1953 and withdrawn from there in November 1967 although it spent a month on loan at Farnley Junction between August and September 1953. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in April 1968. (BR Database).






For our trip to Germany this time there's a rather mixed bag but all still on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974, starting with what I believe to be an 044 2-10-0 on a train of new cars at Emden.

Edit: This is a Br 043 (oil fired). Looking at the numbers probably 043 167-6 - withdrawn from service 20/05/1977 at Rheine.



An unidentified loco on an equally unidentified train at Emden.

Edit: This is a Br 041 or 042 2-8-2 - identified by the running plate being carried across the front. Köf II in the distance on the right.



Finally a detail shot, probably a loco and train coupling up.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Dave. And I'd not noticed that Kof in the background...

Mick - Lovely stuff to expand the info about the Kofs. Will be added to the pdf. Then thanks to Dave for expanding further. That driving from the outside - what would H & S say about that in the UK?

Jubilee 45586 Mysore and the coal plant at Willesden on 18th June 1961. The loco was shedded at Aston from 17th September 1960, Crewe North 23rd June 1962, then Crewe South on 4th August 1962 where it was withdrawn in January 1965. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge in April 1965.



Black 5 44867 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. It was at Rugby from 1948 (BR Database), then Stoke from 5th August 1961 and finally Stockport Edgeley from the beginning of December 1962 where it was withdrawn in June 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in December the same year.



This is Black 5s 45374 and 45288 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. 45374 had been on the Wilesden alocation since December 1960, moved to Bescot in March 1962, Aston in August 1962, Stafford in February 1965and finally Carnforth in August 1965 where it was withdrawn in November 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at McWilliams, Shettleston in July 1968. (Railway Observer).

45288 moved around a lot after leaving Willesden where it had been allocated since November 1960. It went to Rugby in September 1963, Crewe North in June 1964, Bescot in September the same year, Banbury in October 1965, Colwick in February 1966 and finally Heaton Mersey in May 1966 where it was withdrawn in November 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Drapers, Hull, at the beginning of April 1968. (WHTS and BR Database).





Fowler 2-6-4T 42360 in Willesden shed yard on 18th June 1961. It was allocated to Willesden in October 1958 and was withdrawn in August 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in October 1961. (WHTS and BR Database).


Fowler 4-4-0 40657 carrying a 1C, Watford shed plate at Willesden in the long shed on 18th June 1961. It had been at Watford since December 1960 and was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Derby Works in December 1962. (WHTS and BR Database).



A selection of photos here all in Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974, one loco unidentified probably at Emden Station and the remainder from the train.

Edit. Probably 012 063-4.












This one is identified as a parcels handling depot but no evidence of the location.

Edit. This is Lingen (Ems) Güterbahnhof (Güterabfertigung). Source Denkmalatlas Niedersachsen. Güterabfertigung translates as Goods clearance



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Andy. There will be a few people who'll find that very tempting I'm sure. It also spreads the wings of this somewhat parochial thread to pastures new. See what a few photos of German trains has done?

Barry - thanks to you too. You obvious considered a photo of a firebox, didn't you? Come on - own up. I actually used flash for mine as it was a bit dark. OK. Give in. Here's mine. 34104 Firebox. Eastleigh Shed. 23 May 1965. And yes, those grates were a bit big.



For today we're initially going back a bit as I missed one and not, by Tim's standards, a very good one, so here it is now.

Jubilee 45682 Trafalgar arriving at Euston on 5th August 1961. This had been on the Bristol Barrow Road allocation since November 1957 and was withdrawn from there in June 1964. (SLS). It It was scrapped at Bird's, Swansea, around the end of the year according to WHTS or in August 1964 according to BR Database although no scrap yard location is quoted.



G2A 0-8-0 49314 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. It was at Nuneaton from March 1955, then Springs Branch Wigan from May 1962 where it was withdrawn in December. (SLS). BR Database can tell us nothing about disposal but according to WHTS it met its end at Crewe Works although there is no scrapping date.



8F 48114 in Willesden Roundhouse and on the turntable on 18th June 1961. It was at Kirkby in Ashfield from 1947, then Springs Brnch, Wigan, in December 1964 where it was withdrawn in April 1967. (SLS). However, the Locoshed Books advise it was at Edge Hill in April 1957, Kirkby in Ashfield in October 1957, March 1958, December 1959, October 1963 and May 1964. WHTS advises that it was in store at Springs Branch April to August 1967 according to the LCGB. It was then observed right through to September 1967 so would agree that it was scrapped in September 1967 at Cashmore's, Great Bridge. (BR Database).

Edit: Note from Martin Shaw correcting allocations shown above.
48114 Northampton 18/3/39, Toton 23/3/40, Northampton 26/10/40, Kirkby 11/10/41, Heaton Mersey 5/7/47, Kirkby 19/7/47,
Springs Branch 26/12/64, Wdn w/e 1/4/67. From Irwell Book of.

The two weeks at Heaton Mersey seems a bit strange, especially since there is no recorded works activity at that time.





A gathering round the turntable at Willesden on 18th June 1961 of Black 5s 45374 and 45288 with 8F 48114. The two Back 5s were recently in the same location on the same date in post #3045 where details can be found, and details for the 8F are above.



Germany and Rheine - Emden in March 1974 again. Apart from the last two here these are again photos from the train so I suspect from Rheine going north considering the lack of catenary which as Yorkshire Dave pointed out only went as far as Salzbergen at this date. It hadn't reached Emden. The precise locations are unknown.



A train in the opposite direction headed by another Pacific which can be identified as 012 061 but with the last digit indistinct.

Edit:
Loco 012 061 the checksum digit is 8

You can work this out by the following, take the engine number and multiply each digit by alternate 1,2,1,2 etc

012061
121212
=
022062

Add these up = 12, take the last digit away from 10, in this case 10-2, which equals 8.

The engine number is 012 061-8.



Between Rheine and Emden again.



Location is Meppen although I can't read a number. However I suspect this is oil burner pacific 012 063-4 again.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Mick - did you work out the loco numbering or woz you trained? I'll try to remember for the future but there has been so much (for me) new stuff come out of this thread that I'll probably forget. Hopefully my new filing system will be enabling in that regard.

Then, to Mick and Yorkshire Dave. My enormous thanks for dealing with the geography of those photos. Far more than I could ever have expected. I apologise, Mick, for not scanning these photos in frame order - in fact, in retrospect I could have made every contributor's life easier if I'd done just that from the start. The benefit of random scanning was, to my eyes, the variety that would accrue. Additionally, at the time I started I was scanning specific negative strips and slides for Tim so everything was way out of order from the beginning. (BTW, those early scans which Tim always considered his best photographs will appear on here once we've finished the "They're all rubbish, you know" photos . How I wish Tim could have seen the feed back...)

Here's some figures relating to the history of this thread. The whole series of Tim's pre-1968 photos, with the very occasional foray in to blue diesels have been scanned. That's a total of 3915 rubbish images, a few of which are peripheral - cars, buses, traction engines and architecture and will be presented as interesting "extras" to the main thrust of the thread. There remain 1214 to be seen. Then there are another 425 black & white negatives from which Tim wanted a selection printed. While scanned those are yet to be seen. There are 785 colour slides which are scanned and I've not even thought about showing on here yet. I now have two crates of 35mm (mainly) colour slides which I'm actively scanning. Many of these are family photos so of no interest to us, but a large number are of railway subjects, many post 1968, which will eventually get catalogued and see the light of day although of those probably half are on heritage railways.

The thread has been running since October 2020. It was in about April 2021 that I realised posting a single image at a time was simply never going to allow Tim's collection to be completed so after that time I've tried to do about three per post and currently, with the German photos, a lot more than that. On this basis I reckon we still have something like another three years to go - or as long as there remains interest.

That discounts any interesting photos yet to materialise out of the 35m slides or, indeed, my own collection which is minute by comparison.

"God (whoever she may be) put me on this earth to complete a certain number of projects and right now I'm so far behind that I will never die".

Moving on...

94XX 0-6-0PT 8458 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. This was allocated to Old Oak in November 1960 and withdrawn at the end of August 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon in early November 1963. (WHTS).



43XX 2-6-0 6324 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. Note the "GWR" on the tender of the second photo. At the time it was a Reading loco and had been from the end of December 1957. It was withdrawn at the end of April 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon in August the same year.





57XX 0-6-0PTs 9658 and 9704 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. Both are at their home shed, 9658 having been there since new at the end of December 1946. It moved to Stafford Road in July 1963, then Oxley a week later, being withdrawn in October 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in April 1967. (BR Database).

Condensing 57XX 9704 - according to WHTS it spent from 1957 to Nov 63 at Old Oak Common and then stored withdrawn there until Feb 64. Then stored at Southall until scrapped at Great Bridge by Cashmores in June 1964.

9704 New to Old Oak 10/33.
Martin



A very mixed bag of Germany Rheine - Emden photos in March 1974 here. I suspect this first one may well be the train hauled by the loco in the last shot of the preceding post disappearing in to the distance at Meppen.



Oil fired 2-8-2 042 271-7 at Meppen in March 1974. This is probably an out of sequence photo of the breakdown train at Meppen shown in previous posts. It looks s though the driver is leaning out of his cab, perhaps concerned about the adjacency of photographers between the running lines.



Four frankly scruffy photos in the Rheine - Emden March 1974 series of the un-electrified line which puts these at the Emden end of things. I suspect the qualities of the camera were rather overtaken by the gloomy nature of the weather at the time. The quality will be much improved in the next post!









One of my resources, Rail UK, appears to have gone AWOL. The site is said to be under maintenance - check back tomorrow - but I've been doing that for a week and it appears to have disappeared, which is a great shame. There is a new site called railuk.com which is current railway affairs. Has it nicked or bought the RailUK site name. I wonder.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Those British ones above - rubbish pics, especially the 43xx

Tony - How very could you?

Mick and Dave - yet again... Thank you. I agree with Mick about the beardy one and the one behind him, come to that. If you really enjoy these investigations I'm pretty sure there'll be more to come. Your details are so valuable in putting the photos in to context as well as providing an historical perspective in terms of how these locations have changed. I agree that this was more than a one day trip although I have no absolute proof of that.

Arun. You noticed my deliberate mistake... In fact I took the attributed details and went with them without checking the photo itself. I'll now re-write the details using your write up to attribute them correctly to 9704. I'll be grateful if you'll continue to check my homework. Thanks, Arun.

I wonder what excitement (!) we'll have today.

Three similar shots of a positively sparkling Castle 7017 G. J. Churchward in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961 carrying the Royal Train reporting number headboard. This had been allocated to Old Oak Common from August 1954 and was withdrawn in February 1963 after a period in store at Old Oak from the previous November. It was scrapped in January 1964 at King's, Norwich.







Castle 5091 Cleeve Abbey in Old Oak Common Yard on 18th June 1961. This has previously been in two 1963 photos. It was allocated to Landore in July 1958 and to Llanelli the day before this photos was taken, on 17th June 1961. It moved to Cardiff Canton in October the same year, then Cardiff East Dock in September 1962, Worcester in April 1964 and Tyseley in either late June or early July 1964 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It was scrapped in November at Cashmore's, Great Bridge. (BR Database).



Hall 5942 Doldowlod Hall in Old Oak Common Yard on 18th June 1961. It had been at Shrewsbury since December 1959, then Tyseley in July 1963 where it was withdrawn in late November or mid-December 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in June 1964. (BR Database).



Back to Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and two of oil burning 2-8-2 042 347-5 at Rheine.





Still in Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 but a break from the railways with a Mercedes bus, probably at Rheine. Other details unknown.

Edit: It's Rheine Bahnhofstraße - with the entrance to the goods yard on the right. The bus is the classic first generation Standard-Linienbusse - a Mercedes O 305 built from 1969 to 1988 either as a single deck variant (as shown) or as an articulated single deck bus.

In my eyes the Mercedes bus was a far better design than the two standard british equivalents of the period, the Bristol LH (1967-82) and the Leyland National (1972-85). In respect of the Leyland Nationals when I lived in Aylesbury you would often hear anecdotally the London Country drivers saying if you kicked the rear engine side panels it'd stop working.



Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and an oil burning but otherwise unidentified loco at Rheine.

Edit. The unidentified engine is 012 063-4, it's certainly an 012 class, five wheel tender and rubber bellows are a give away and the checksum digit looks like a 4 and the last loco digit looks like a 3 or 8. The only two engines that match that criteria are 058-4 and 063-4 both Bw Rheine engines, certainly 063-4.

I'd go along with 012 063-4 as a year earlier 012 058-4 was retired from service on 12/04/1973 or 08/05/1973 (depending upon which record is correct) then transferred to AW Braunschweig on 20/04/1975. dampflokomotivarchiv.de 012 058-4 was delivered to Bw Rheine on 12/12/1972.

It is 012 063-4, it's come off the shed, run up to the throat and backed onto Tims train is my best guess.

Note the oil line along the firebox, 063-4 has a distinct kink in it, (see img4091) now I haven't checked all my 012 photos, but of the few hundred I have, I've not seen any others with a kink exactly like that, plus in this case, same day, same photographer, too coincidental not to be the same engine.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the thought about Wakes Week, Heather, and I must admit that I'd not considered it. However, from memory of driving to Scotland during Wakes Week when Co Durham and north to the borders was shut I have a feeling it was about a month later - ie early July, but memory is not what it was. Wikipedia tells us that it could be any time between June and September. Equally, some of Tim's dates can be a bit "fluid" so I guess it's still possible. I'm just somewhat surprised that I can't find it in Six Bells Junction.

Mick. Thanks for confirmation re-Emden. Also re the BR94 and probable 043.

Then, thanks to Roger, Michael and Dave for further info about the BR94 and particularly Dave for all those references. It's nice to think that the loco in Tim's photo still exists.

A good story about the DB plates, David. In fact I was at the tail end of when you could pick up a name or number plate for less than £1 at one of the railway works when engines were being scrapped. That was, of course, before some smart mind recognised that there was an unfulfilled demand and suddenly the informal supply stopped.

J72 69011 in the shed yard at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. One of the most unlikely British Railways builds in 1949 of a design dating from the turn of the century. This was "at home", having been allocated to Hull Dairycoates in November 1960. It moved to West Hartlepool in February 1963 and was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). I don't have any information about the date of scrapping but this was carried out at Cohen's. Cargo Fleet. (BR Database).



K3 61932 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. This had been allocated to Hull since October 1955 and was withdrawn from there in February 1962. (SLS). It was observed by the Railway Observer in the scrapyard at Doncaster in February so we can assume that it was scrapped shortly thereafter. (WHTS).



V1 2-6-2T 67635 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. This had been on the Hull allocation since June 1959, then moved to Thornaby in December 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It was seen at Darlington Works in January 1964, presumably for scrapping (RO), although BR Database records a scrapping date of November 1963.



Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and three photos of, I believe, 2-10-0s in the shed at Emden.







...and remaining with Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and oil burning 2-10-0 043 666-7 on the turntable at Emden. That looks like a railcar to the right.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Mick. I'm in your debt again for the corrections to the locations of the German photos. Thank you. Corrected on the appropriate posts and the additional info now in the German Railway folder.

Martin. Thank you for yours. The additional and varying info about the V2 gives a choice of references which while still making the subject as clear as mud at least offers alternatives and origins.

Andy - an excellent group of posts about Reckitt, all added to the relevant file, and then to Dave, Adrian and Roger for more and interesting info about Wakes weeks and the local implications. Until my first trip to Scotland in the early 1960s I'd never heard of them, and was very surprised to find that, when we reached certain border towns there was nowhere to stay as everyone was away on holiday. I remember specifically that happening at Jedburgh where we'd have really liked to stay but we had to get back on the road or we'd have been sleeping in the car.

J72s 68672 of the 1898 batch clearly in store with the chimney covered and smokebox door open and 69020 from 1951 also with the smokebox door open so probably in store on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961.

68672 was allocated to Hull Dairycoates from March 1958 and was withdrawn in October 1961. (SLS). The Railway Observer reports it as being at Darlington Works in April 1962 so it was almost certainly scrapped there shortly thereafter.

69020 was allocated to York North when new (BR Database) and allocated to Hull Dairycoates in March 1960. It went to Darlington in November 1962 and was withdrawn at the end of December 1963. (SLS). It was reported by the Railway Observer at Thompson's, Stockton on Tees in March 1965 but there remains a query against that advice.



V3 2-6-2T 67682 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. It had been allocated there since June 1959, moved to Darlington in December 1961 and was withdrawn from there in September 1963. (SLS). This agrees with the Railway Observer which also confirms it was in the works in October and was probably scrapped around that time. BR Database gives the scrapping date as November 1963. The shed plate is 50 - something - possibly B, which Hull Dairycoates became in 1960 . Locoshed Books show it as at 52C Blaydon in May, November 1957 and May 1958, then 53A Hull Dairycoates in December 1959. In the SLS record there is no mention of Blaydon, although I recognise that it predates the photo.



Another J72, 69010, on shed at Hull Dairycoates carrying the 50B shed plate on 11th June 1961. This had been new to Hull Dairycoates in December 1949 and stayed there for the whole of it's working life, being withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). According to the Railway Observer it was at Darlington in May 1963 which is probably representative of the scrapping date.


Back to Germany and Rheine-Emden in March 1974. This is coal burning 2-10-0 044 481-0 at Emden.



A series here, still on the Rheine-Emden trip in March 1974 of 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094 and subsequent.









Brian

 

[oldravendale]

More fantastic stuff, chaps, so thank you all. It seems that almost all these photos attract new and better information which makes the storing of it an additional task but a very pleasant one.

Yorkshire Dave. Many thanks for the additional stuff about half day closing and the bus timetables. These add significant background to the information we already have so a great diversion. Keep 'em coming! Also the info on the C. I didn't know about it's antecedents despite my interest in things Southern so another item to add to the armoury. Then such a great amount of stuff about the headcode and likely route of the train in the bay. All safely gathered in.

Mike - thank you for kicking off the discussion about the train hauled by the 2-6-4T. It is entirely possible that Tim's notes are in need of correction as we know.

Martin. Thanks for yours about Hull and further info about the C. I think I can explain the sale for scrap from Salisbury - in the run down of Southern steam Salisbury became a concentration point for storage of locos for scrap and I'd put money on that being the reason the loco was sold on from there.

There seems to be a bit of interest in this neck of the Southern so some will be pleased to know that we have quite a few of these to come. I'll try to add some German photos too as long as time doesn't run out on me.

A rather blurred view from the train entering Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961.



Standard Class 4 80066 on a Tonbridge to Maidstone East train at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961. By May 1961 the loco was allocated to Tonbridge, moving to Eastleigh in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in June 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Birds, Morriston, in October the same year. (BR Database).



An unidentified Rebuilt West Country or Battle of Britain on a down express at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. There's what looks like brand new electric stock lurking in the platform next door.

Edit. Possibly West Country 34025 Whimple. It had been allocated to Bricklayers Arms in June 1959 and moved to Eastleigh in May 1961 which may suggest this would not be on the Kent Coast line. However, it then went to Bournemouth in October 1965 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It was disposed of at Cashmore's, Newport, in March 1968. (BR Database).




Two here in the Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 series. I can't identify the nearer of the two locos but the further one is 043 475-3. I believe these are both oil burners so the shed is probably Rheine.






Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974. I believe this is a continuation of the three photos in post #3094 - img 4116 - 4118 - probably hauled by an 043 at Emden.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Mike - that's a lovely geographical memory.

Dave. I'd not noticed the "coal". I guess the tender shows whether it is actually a coal burner or, as Tony has suggested, a tree either in the background or hitching a ride. It certainly appears that the window frame behind is grinning through. Thanks Simon, Michael and Dave again for further comments and I'm leaning towards the loco actually being coal fired.

Yorkshire Dave - thank you for the info about the train of the unidentified Bulleid Pacific and then the excellent stuff about the electric stock. As will become part of the story in a later post I was in the same approximate area (sometimes exactly the same area) at the same approximate time as Tim, just as the steam service were ceasing. I don't remember the new electric stock at all, although I suspect it was there, and it doesn't appear in any of my photos. On the trip I did I left my camera on the train at Waterloo and lost the final sequence of photos - we went to Eastleigh after Ashford. There were T9s and M7s at least on that roll of film and it still hurts to think about it!

The class H we saw recently in post #3116 and which I suspect we'll see more of in the sequence. It's 31305 on a Maidstone East to Tonbridge train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. To repeat the earlier notes: By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).



Now two of the same loco, 31305 on the Maidstone East to Tonbridge train en route on 10th June 1961, fire irons on the tank top and clearly taken from the train window next to the loco.





Class C 31588 on a Hawkhurst to Paddock Wood train South of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. Tim records this as being the final day of services on the line. 31588 was allocated to Gillingham in at least 1947 and moved from there to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. (SLS). The SLS also records it as being allocated to Stewarts Lane two days later but this seems most unlikely. According to WHTS it was observed in Ashford Works on 1st July and BR Database report a scrapping date of July 1962 which all fits quite nicely. The train looks like a Maunsell pull-push set to me.



Finally for the BR scene today what must be something of a rarity with unidentified BR Standard 2-6-4T and Inspection Saloon DS1 at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961.



For some reason I failed to Photoshop this photo which is part of the series of the Rheine-Emden trip in March 1974 and 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094, and subsequent - also post #3112 so here it is now.



Two of the same train in the Rheine Emden March 1974 series of an unidentified Pacific at either Emden or Meppen.

Edit: The last two numbers seem to be 2-4, so this should be 012 082-4, the only engine with these end-numbers. Albert Gieseler -- 01.10 Öl is a valuable source of information. It lists all numbers within every class. If available, there are also pictures of the indiviual engine.

The coach behind the loco is also interesting. This seems to be a Pw4ü 36 "Packwagen" for parcels and luggage. It can be recognized at its split doors and the recessed end doors. This class had a pulpit for the train conductor, but this particular wagon seems to have lost it.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Martin. More useful stuff and safely recorded.

Michael - Thanks for yours too, the potential loco ID and the reference material. The info on that vehicle is really handy too.

Mick and Adam. I agree that it's a West Country, although I'm not so sure about whether it's 34025 as that was shedded at Eastleigh from the preceding May so it would be unlikely on a train in Kent. Nevertheless, with that caveat it's added to the info and thanks for the suggestion.

Mike. That model of DS1 is rather lovely. In fact my son Steph (lately of this parish) had one to build but when he sold his UK stock I forgot to ask him to keep it for me. However, I believe Roxey Mouldings now has the Southwark Bridge range so not all is lost. That press stud fixing of the bogies is, I understand, quite traditional. Thanks too for your observations regarding DS1.

Thanks for yours, Yorkshire Dave. As the corridor connection has been removed I'm pretty convinced that it's a pull-push pair which were converted, I believe, quite late on. In fact there's an image a bit later in this group where the same loco and a set number of 616 is clearly visible. Edit: I misunderstood your note, Dave, and now I look at the photo again I ca see the carriage you are talking abut behind the H hauled train. Apologies!

I may only have time for a few BR/SR photos today but we'll see how it goes.

Original air smoothed Battle of Britain 34083 605 Squadron on a down Ramsgate train at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961. It was allocated to Ashford in May 1961 and then Exmouth Junction in November the same year where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It was observed in store at Exmouth by the Railway Observer in early and late September 1964, then at Hayes/Bird's Bridgend where it was reported by the LCGB in February 1965 and by the Railway Observer in June 1965. According to WHTS it was last seen intact at Bird's on 27th September 1965.



Last seen very recently in post #3131 is Class C 31588 backing stock in to Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961, the final day of services on the Paddock Wood to Hawkhurst line. To repeat the earlier comments: 31588 was allocated to Gillingham in at least 1947 and moved from there to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. (SLS). The SLS also records it as being allocated to Stewarts Lane two days later but this seems most unlikely. According to WHTS it was observed in Ashford Works on 1st July and BR Database report a scrapping date of July 1962 which all fits quite nicely.



Another of the same loco on a Hawkhurst train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961, new electric stock much in evidence. That signal box just cries out to be modelled.


An unidentified N Class 2-6-0 on a local train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961 using set 549. It seems to have the number chalked just above the buffer beam but it's still difficult to read. The C Class can be seen in the platform on the extreme left and what appears to be Bulleid stock to the right, but doubtless (and with luck) that description will be put right.

Edit: I think the last digits on the Class N are '24'. If so this could be 31824, which , as far as I can ascertain, spent it's time at Bricklayers Arms (73B) (at least since June 1947) until a final allocation to Stewarts Lane (after it became 75D) (in July 1960). The SLS then reports it at Redhill from July 1963 where it was withdrawn in the following October. Once again - just an educated guess, but this is the only N with last two digits '24'.

The Railway Observer reports it at Eastleigh Works in January 1964 where it was cut up in week ending 18th January 1964.



Well, there is time for some Germany so, once again, Rheine - Emden in May 1974. Once again a couple of 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094, and subsequent - also post #3112 and #3131.





I'm assuming this is a 2-10-0 and at Emden although I have no other details.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for your thoughts on the N Roger. Incorporated "just in case".

Yorkshire Dave - once again many thanks for filling so many gaps. All now incorporated in the full descriptions.

David - I'd not even thought about the smoke issue with that box. I wonder what the atmosphere was like inside the Clapham Junction box... Thanks for the comment.

One of the BR built and then rebuilt West Country class locos 34100 Appledore on the down Golden Arrow south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. It had been a Stewarts Lane engine since February 1958 moving to Brighton in November 1962 where it was withdrawn on the cusp of the end of Southern steam in early July 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport in October the same year. (BR Database).



Seen recently on the same trip and recorded in post #3116 is H Class 31305 seen here on a Maidstone East to Tonbridge train comprising a pull-push set of modified Maunsell coaches south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).



Class Q1 33031 on a Tonbridge to Maidstone East train south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. This was a Tonbridge engine and had been since April 1948. It moved to Nine Elms in May 1962 and then Three Bridges in November where it was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). The Railway Observer reports it at Eastleigh Works where it was cut up week ending 9th November 1963.



Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and now, according to the board which can be seen through this building, at Lathen. This looks like a huge mashalling yard which is, I believe, between Meppen and Rheine.



Same location and date with possibly the train featured in the next two photos approaching.



At Lathen and oil burning pacific 012 075-8 passes on a passenger train in March 1974.





Brian

 

[oldravendale]

It's probably the long grass, but that last image looks like it's standing there, cold and forgotten.

Maybe it's just part of a diorama.

Dave - again, thank you for expanding the detail to go with the photos. This will be attached to the images in the normal way...

Rebuilt West Country 34101 Hartland on a down boat train south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. In May 1961 it was a Bricklayers Arms loco having been recently rebuilt at Eastleigh (in 1960). It moved to Brighton in June 1962, Nine Elms in June 1963 and finally Eastleigh in September 1964 where it was withdrawn in July 1966. It went to Woodham's, Barry in October 1966 and was rescued in July 1978 for preservation - see 34101 Hartland for details.



Class N 31406 on a Dover to Tonbridge local train south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. It was a Tonbridge engine in February 1961, moving to Weymouth Radipole in May (which may have been a book transfer brought about by the electrification of the Kent Coast line with physical transfer occurring somewhat later. This would account for this sighting at Paddock Wood) and finally Exmouth Junction in March 1962 where it was withdrawn in September 1964. It was in store at Exmouth in August and September (Railway Observer). The RO also noted it in a siding close to Bristol Barrow Road while in transit to Bird's, Morriston in late December 1964. BR Database report a scrapping date of December 1964 and with the earlier observation at Bristol I think we can assume that it was shortly after.



Q1 33031 on a Maidstone East to Tonbridge train south of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. I think we can safely assume that this is the returning train shown in post #3144. To repeat the earlier comments: This was a Tonbridge engine and had been since April 1948. It moved to Nine Elms in May 1962 and then Three Bridges in November where it was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). The Railway Observer reports it at Eastleigh Works where it was cut up week ending 9th November 1963.



Some rather less than exciting shots on the Rheine - Emden trip of May 1974 featuring 2-10-0s. The weather looks to have been appalling but Tim was only occasionally blessed with good weather on his trips - reference the previous sequence in Scotland. I suspect these are shots from his hotel and probably somewhere near Emden.









Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Just to further my education about wind pressures/cooling towers... There were, I seem to remember, seven cooling towers at Ferrybridge. Only one fell down and folk law says that was due to the relationship one with another. Bearing in mind all the great stuff here why would one tower fall down and other identical towers at the same distance apart on the same site not fail?

Thank you all for extending this treatise on wind effects as a spin off from the discussion about the effect of wind direction on trees! IMHO this is really interesting and well worthy of its place in these columns. I'm now debating with myself whether this should all appear in the German Railways record - I've included everything up to and including the details about brothels and prevailing winds and their effect on the trees but I'm not sure whether this extended discussion should live there or not. I don't want to lose it so unless I can think of somewhere more appropriate it'll probably end up there. I remain delighted by the way this thread occasionally disappears down rabbit holes. Long may it continue to do so!

Gateman 49 - thanks for your kind comments and your interesting post. Additional information is always welcome and it has no bearing on whether the original post was recent or years ago. I'm really pleased this thread is enjoyable for you. I'll be adding your information, about which I was entirely ignorant, to the details attached to the photo of 7013/4082.

C Class 0-6-0 31004 on Ashford Shed on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Ashford at the end of May 1961 and withdrawn in November the same year. (SLS). BR Database advises a scrapping date of November and WHTS suggests this was completed at Ashford, which seems very likely, but still needs confirmation.



Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80042 arriving at Ashford from Maidstone East on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Tonbridge from the end of May 1961, having been transferred from the LMR. It moved to Exmouth Junction in June 1962 and was withdrawn in February 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Hayes, Bridgend, in May 1965. (BR Database).



One of the last remaining Class L 4-4-0s, 31760, piloting original Battle of Britain 34067 Tangmere on a heavy down Dover Boat Train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. 31760 was allocated to Nine Elms in June 1959 from Tonbridge where it had lived since 1948. This train must have been one of its last in revenue earning service as it was withdrawn just two weeks after this photo was taken. Why a Nine Elms engine was working on the Kent Coast lines is open to conjecture so perhaps there was an allocation after that recorded at Nine Elms or the transfer to Nine Elms happened "on the books" but not in actuality. (SLS). The Railway Observer records the loco as scrapped at Ashford Works week ending 15th July 1961.

Tim photographed 34067 a week after this image - see post #3145. It was allocated to Salisbury from Stewarts Lane at the end of May 1961 so this must be considered another of the book transfers made in advance of actuality. It was withdrawn on 2nd November 1963. (SLS). There is advice that it was allocated to Exmouth Junction in September 1963 where it was immediately withdrawn. (Preserved British Steam Locomotives). In any event it went to Woodhams in Barry in April 1965. It came out of the scrapyard in January 1981 and further details can be seen in 34067 Tangmere (SR 21C167, BR s21C167 & BR 34067)





Back to Germany and Rheine - Emden in March 1974. Here is oil burning pacific 012 063-4 on a passenger train, probably at Emden.



This could be the marshalling yards at Rheine - the OHLE suggests so. Oil burning 2-10-0 043 475-3 in March 1974.



This is probably the train from the photograph above.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Michael, Dave and Adam. Thank you all for the info about locos on display. I share the concern that anything presented in that manner in the UK is likely to suffer at the hands of the vandals - and potentially the scrap man - but the one at Stratford perhaps suggests that is not always the case.

I spent yesterday at the very well attended GOG exhibition at Kettering and pass on my thanks to all those who made a point of commenting on this thread. I don't need any great encouragement to keep it going but it's really good to know that so many people find it valuable and interesting and are willing to contribute with comments and corrections. Thank you.

N Class Mogul 31410 on a local train from Tonbridge at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It had been a Stewarts Lane loco since at least 1948, moving to Norwood Junction in July 1963, Redhill in September and Guildford at the end of December - all in the same year - where it was withdrawn in November 1964. (BR Database and SLS). WHTS records it in store at Eastleigh in February 1965 and the LCGB reports it at Swansea East Dock awaiting transfer to Bird's, Morriston, on 28th February 1965. BR Database advise it was scrapped in March the same year.



Rebuilt Battle of Britain 34082 615 Squadron on a down boat train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Dover Marine in April 1958 and then to Nine Elms at the end of May 1961 - I suspect another book transfer in advance of the Kent Coast Electrification. It moved to Eastleigh in September 1964 and was withdrawn in April 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Newport in September 1966. (BR Database).


N Class 31404 on a Tonbridge to Dover local train at Ashford on 3rd June 1961. It was allocated to Tonbridge in February 1961, then Salisbury at the end of May 1962 (probably another transfer in advance of the electrification) and finally Guildford in September 1963 where it was withdrawn in December the same year. The Railway Observer reports that it arrived at Eastleigh between 9th December and 3rd January 1964 and was cut up there week ending 4th January 1964.



I'm sorry to say that, in view of the enthusiasm for these German photos, this part of the collection is coming to an end - probably only a couple more posts to go.

A sadly rather out of focus (probably) pacific at Rheine on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974.

Edit: Definitely an 012 - more than likely 012 063-4 as seen in previous posts (could also be 012 08x, or 012 06x).

Dave



Modern motive power - 220 079-8 probably at Rheine in March 1974.

Edit: Confirmed at Rheine.



...and more modern power with 110 407-4 at Rheine in March 1974.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Well, updating all the information for those photos kept me busy this afternoon so I've not been out to the workshop - again! That will actually need an effort of will as I'm trying to fit the brake gear around the water scoop gear on the Royal Scot tender and it's not working out. I'll go out there again with an ice pack to go on my fevered brow in a day or two... However, having re-read all this "stuff" I'm absolutely delighted with the detail that's come out. WT is truly the repository for a huge amount of knowledge and I'll very much welcome all the details about times and train movements in future (and for any of the photos in the past as well) - all the records are updatable.

Pull-push fitted H Class 31263 on shed at Tonbridge on 3rd June 1961 with a Q1 peeking out of the shed behind (if a Q1 could ever be said to peak!). This is an H that moved around a bit towards the end of its life. At the time of the photo it was allocated to Tonbridge where it had been since April 1960, moved to Ashford in February 1962, Three Bridges in June, Tunbridge Wells West in September (all 1962) and back to Three Bridges in September 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1964. (SLS). It was the last H Class in service and when withdrawn was stored at Three Bridges until purchased in November 1964. It's now on the Bluebell - see 31263 (SECR 263, SR A263, SR 1263 & BR 31263) for more details.



C Class 0-6-0 31588 on a local to Maidstone West from Tonbridge on 3rd June 1961. This loco has been seen in this recent batch of photos in posts #3131and #3138. 31588 was allocated to Gillingham in at least 1947 and moved from there to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. (SLS). The SLS also records it as being allocated to Stewarts Lane two days later but this seems most unlikely. According to WHTS it was observed in Ashford Works on 1st July and BR Database report a scrapping date of July 1962 which all fits quite nicely.



U1 31907. The notes on this are a bit confused to me so I'll list them as Tim did. At least he's not suggesting this is Ashford! They say Tunbridge - Tunbridge Wells Tunbridge Stn West. Please pull the bones out of that one for me and I'll update the description accordingly!

What is indisputable is that it is hauling Pull Push set 652 and the date is 3rd June 1961.

31907 was allocated to Tonbridge in June 1959 and was then allocated to Nine Elms in May 1961 which was, I suspect, another of the early book transfers in advance of the Kent Coast electrification. It was withdrawn from Nine Elms at the end of December 1962. (SLS). According to the SLS it went in to store at Norwood Junction with the instruction that it stay there until further advised and WHTS say it was observed there in March 1963. The Railway Observer then advise it left Norwood Junction for Eastleigh in November 1963 and arrived between 4th November and 5th December. The RO further report that it was cut up week ending 6th December 1963 which agrees with BR Database who advise it was scrapped in December.

Edit: This is Tonbridge.

Tunbridge Wells West (ex-LBSC) and Tunbridge Wells Central (ex-SER) were not electrified at the time. Furthermore Tunbridge Wells Central is situated in a cutting both stations were double rather than four track between the platforms.

The headcode indicates a Reading-Tonbridge train via Redhill.



I warned you- we've come to the end of this sequence of photos Tim took in Germany. Don't be sorry it's over, just be glad he went there and took some wonderful photos. Sad to say he only made the one trip and judging by the response on these pages he's made quite an impression. Thank you for your comments and enthusiasm.

Oil burning 2-10-0 043 476-3 at Rheine on the Germany Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974.



Once again the Germany Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974. I believe this is the same location as seen in img4110, post #3081.

Edit - Now confirmed.



Oil burning 2-10-0 043 475-3 again at Rheine in March 1974.



And very finally 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden March 1974.



Can't say much more.

Brian