Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Yes, now to work out how to fit it!!!!!
Roger
A West Midlands Works
- Thread starter Scanlon
- Start date
Roger
demu1037
Western Thunderer
Sorry Roger, too late as usual! (I've put the rest in a gallery thread -http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/br-2-3500-gallon-tender.4535/ )
And no, they are not rows of chocolate buttons.....
Andy
And no, they are not rows of chocolate buttons.....
Andy
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Hi Andy,
Thanks for the photo and yes it is much too late. The DJB locos with BR2 tenders had all the rivet detail on the rear platform, I can only think Dave Sharpe copied this tender detail from another loco in preservation. I've also checked his build instructions and the photos and nowhere are these floor rivets shown. Never mind when it's running you won't miss them, well I won't but other might!
Cheers
Roger
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
There is a phrase we all know, "beware what you wish for" and for me two wishes have or are about to come true. In August 2014 I said I'd like to build another Sans Pareil Lord Nelson and later also wished for a Standard class 5 kit from the same stable. Well the Lord Nelson has arrived and the Standard will be collected at Telford.
The DJB Standard 3 2-6-2t is nearing completion with only the boiler backplate and the valve gear still to build plus a few detailing parts to fit. Currently I'm waiting for an ABC motor and gearbox to arrive and then I can test the frames etc. prior to strip down for painting, this is the current state of play
So are there other developments? Yes. The next engine through my hands will be the Sans Pareil Lord Nelson. My chosen loco is 30856 Lord St. Vincent, saviour of the Royal Navy. Somewhere I have read the kit is not wholly appropriate for the 15 production locos but I can live with this. Having studied the build instructions intensely I will begin with the tender. There are 12 pages of very detailed notes accompanied by an equal number of large build diagrams. Hopefully next week there will be something to show you.
The DJB Standard 3 2-6-2t is nearing completion with only the boiler backplate and the valve gear still to build plus a few detailing parts to fit. Currently I'm waiting for an ABC motor and gearbox to arrive and then I can test the frames etc. prior to strip down for painting, this is the current state of play
So are there other developments? Yes. The next engine through my hands will be the Sans Pareil Lord Nelson. My chosen loco is 30856 Lord St. Vincent, saviour of the Royal Navy. Somewhere I have read the kit is not wholly appropriate for the 15 production locos but I can live with this. Having studied the build instructions intensely I will begin with the tender. There are 12 pages of very detailed notes accompanied by an equal number of large build diagrams. Hopefully next week there will be something to show you.
Last edited:
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
The standard 3 is a lovely looking loco, hobby horse have just done a few new castings for the Nelson kit,
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Roger,
I'd go for the Hobby horse parts and the 'somewhere' was probably me.
The loco bogie isn't quite right either.
Steph
I'd go for the Hobby horse parts and the 'somewhere' was probably me.
The loco bogie isn't quite right either.
Steph
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Construction of the tender has taken up much of this week. I decided to follow the instructions to the letter, well almost and have found them most useful. At the start of each section there is a guide as to how long the particular task should take and generally I have found them to be accurate. The basic tender build has taken about 10 hours against a suggested 9 hours. My departures from the instructions at this stage are that the bufferbeam overlay and the steps have not been fitted.
One of the hardest tasks at the very start was to form the tender frame which required a very narrow and long etch to be folded at 90◦'s. Needless to say the etch kept jumping out of my hold and fold so I resorted to using my vice, with suitable protection for the etch, this method worked. The tender body sides had already been preformed but the rear corners were not entirely accurately formed. To get the body into the etched groove on the frame floor required the use of clamps plus a little heat. Thereafter the build has been straightforward and it now looks like this.
I am now building the bogies and at the start misunderstood the instructions. Fortunately on another web site there is a very thorough review of the build of two of these kits and I'm very grateful to Simon Hill of Hobbyhorse Developments for putting a photo of a completed bogie on the thread. Hopefully next week will see the tender nearing completion.
One of the hardest tasks at the very start was to form the tender frame which required a very narrow and long etch to be folded at 90◦'s. Needless to say the etch kept jumping out of my hold and fold so I resorted to using my vice, with suitable protection for the etch, this method worked. The tender body sides had already been preformed but the rear corners were not entirely accurately formed. To get the body into the etched groove on the frame floor required the use of clamps plus a little heat. Thereafter the build has been straightforward and it now looks like this.
I am now building the bogies and at the start misunderstood the instructions. Fortunately on another web site there is a very thorough review of the build of two of these kits and I'm very grateful to Simon Hill of Hobbyhorse Developments for putting a photo of a completed bogie on the thread. Hopefully next week will see the tender nearing completion.
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
The tender is almost finished. Installing the brake hangers and stretchers proved to be fiddly, time consuming and very frustrating. Armed with the knowledge gleaned from Mr Hill's articles that the stretchers are too short I decided to chamfer the backs of the brake blocks to allow them to be moved inwards. This gave a slight interference fit with the stretchers and I have been able to solder everything together. Quite a bit of cleaning up is still required but at least the assemblies are robust and look the part. For the moment I have not fitted the leading brake cylinder and associated linkage until pick-ups on the fixed axles of each bogie have been installed.
Problems fitting buffers seems to be all the rage at the moment but I can report few problems. The holes in the bufferbeam were far too small so were drilled out as far as my Dremel would allow. Fortunately this was just big enough to get a large diameter round file into the now enlarged hole and after about 10 minutes work on each hole the inner shanks fitted snugly. The bufferheads and the buffer housings etc. needed a lot of cleaning up before soldering in place. Two types of buffer housing are provided, the original SR style and the later BR type. Very few locos had the latter fitted but I checked photos of 30856 to ensure the correct ones were used. The only minor issue I had was of my own making in that the strengthening behind the rear footsteps interfered with the nuts retaining the buffers and springs but this is now resolved.
Otherwise detailing has proceeded apace, building and fitting the vacuum cylinders is best described as interesting. The cylinders on the real machine are 3ft long, the castings for the ends after cleaning up are each about 1.5mm deep excluding the pipe connections so I cut three 18mm long pieces of tube. The blank ends to the cylinders were then soldered in place and new measurements taken. Of course each was different but fortunately the shortest was still over length, phew! The three were clamped together and quietly filed down until they were of equal length. The other ends were then fitted but only after the pipe connections were drilled out to accommodate 0.5mm wire. Soldering them in place was tricky and for some reason one cylinder didn't want to lie flat, well it does now! This little exercise occupied most of a morning.
With the tender put to one side work started on the engine frames. Despite Dave Sharpe's warning to read the build instructions carefully before starting work yours truly decided to take shortcuts, will I never learn? Building the various sub assemblies for inside the frames was entirely straightforward but when it came to the basic cylinder assembly major problems arose. The kit has four sets of etches for the cylinders, of course I used the nickel silver set only to find nothing would fit; why? The answer was to use the replacement brass etches which are part of the body etch; obvious, well not to me. This photo shows the frames basically assembled and with the correct cylinders. Everything has been tagged together up to now, only a few of the sub-assemblies are soldered up. It is entirely square!
Alongside the Nelson I have completed the Standard Class 3 build and it has now gone away for lining and numbering.
My Stanier Class 3 2-6-2t has also returned from lining etc. undertaken by David Amias. Photos of the loco have already appeared on the Heyside thread although it has yet to be given a chance to turn its wheels due to pressure of work getting the layout ready for a big show in Shropshire!
Now a plea for help, my kit does not have any castings for the inside cylinders, all the rods and crossheads are there but nothing else. Does anyone happen to have any spare castings? I'm looking for the following
I need two sets of the left hand sprue and one set of the slidebar sprue. I don't propose to make working inside cylinders but as the rods etc. are there I'd like to fit everything in place. Thanks.
Problems fitting buffers seems to be all the rage at the moment but I can report few problems. The holes in the bufferbeam were far too small so were drilled out as far as my Dremel would allow. Fortunately this was just big enough to get a large diameter round file into the now enlarged hole and after about 10 minutes work on each hole the inner shanks fitted snugly. The bufferheads and the buffer housings etc. needed a lot of cleaning up before soldering in place. Two types of buffer housing are provided, the original SR style and the later BR type. Very few locos had the latter fitted but I checked photos of 30856 to ensure the correct ones were used. The only minor issue I had was of my own making in that the strengthening behind the rear footsteps interfered with the nuts retaining the buffers and springs but this is now resolved.
Otherwise detailing has proceeded apace, building and fitting the vacuum cylinders is best described as interesting. The cylinders on the real machine are 3ft long, the castings for the ends after cleaning up are each about 1.5mm deep excluding the pipe connections so I cut three 18mm long pieces of tube. The blank ends to the cylinders were then soldered in place and new measurements taken. Of course each was different but fortunately the shortest was still over length, phew! The three were clamped together and quietly filed down until they were of equal length. The other ends were then fitted but only after the pipe connections were drilled out to accommodate 0.5mm wire. Soldering them in place was tricky and for some reason one cylinder didn't want to lie flat, well it does now! This little exercise occupied most of a morning.
With the tender put to one side work started on the engine frames. Despite Dave Sharpe's warning to read the build instructions carefully before starting work yours truly decided to take shortcuts, will I never learn? Building the various sub assemblies for inside the frames was entirely straightforward but when it came to the basic cylinder assembly major problems arose. The kit has four sets of etches for the cylinders, of course I used the nickel silver set only to find nothing would fit; why? The answer was to use the replacement brass etches which are part of the body etch; obvious, well not to me. This photo shows the frames basically assembled and with the correct cylinders. Everything has been tagged together up to now, only a few of the sub-assemblies are soldered up. It is entirely square!
Alongside the Nelson I have completed the Standard Class 3 build and it has now gone away for lining and numbering.
My Stanier Class 3 2-6-2t has also returned from lining etc. undertaken by David Amias. Photos of the loco have already appeared on the Heyside thread although it has yet to be given a chance to turn its wheels due to pressure of work getting the layout ready for a big show in Shropshire!
Now a plea for help, my kit does not have any castings for the inside cylinders, all the rods and crossheads are there but nothing else. Does anyone happen to have any spare castings? I'm looking for the following
I need two sets of the left hand sprue and one set of the slidebar sprue. I don't propose to make working inside cylinders but as the rods etc. are there I'd like to fit everything in place. Thanks.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Call Ian Young, he'll sort the castings for you.
Eventually.
Steph
Eventually.
Steph
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Thanks Steph, I've already tried and will keep on trying! This is a belt and braces appeal.
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Work on the frames has progressed given demands on my time recently. Before soldering up the frames I decided to check them again to ensure everything was still square. It was, so followed a morning of soldering and cleaning up the frames. The latter was particularly tricky because there are no outer frame overlays a la later MOK kits. Fortunately 90% of the fixings are obscured by the wheels which were tackled next. I use 10BA bolts for crankpins with Gladiator threaded bushes and by the evening I had an 0-6-0. This work was followed by construction of the bogie and then the motion brackets.
Having fitted the latter the instructions said "now check their fitting against the running plate". Naturally that had not been built so I quickly put the frames aside and sought out the etches. Construction of the running plate was straightforward, just the drops at the cab and bufferbeams proving difficult. My loco will have deflectors and the etch has a slot for them to fit into. This makes the etch very fragile but with care everything went together properly. Now I could try the frames in the running plate and minor adjustments to the motion brackets could be made.
The next major task was to fit the springs, each of which is made up of three castings which took quite a bit of cleaning up before they could be built up.
I made a very simple jig to ensure the spring hangers would be level against the frames. This little exercise took a good five hours to finish.
The last two days has seen work resumed on the frames with the cylinder detail added, slidebars and crossheads made up and coupling and connecting rods built. Easy to say but most castings needed a lot of cleaning up and of course the slidebar to crosshead interface had to be perfect. The slidebar castings are superb and only needed polishing. The crosshead casting was of a similar quality but needed the piston rod to be added and time and patience were required to ensure the rods were perfectly true. As you can see today I have achieved a working chassis.
Now a plea for help. There are no instructions for locating the bogie pivot and two are supplied. Can anyone give me some help to get this right?
Having fitted the latter the instructions said "now check their fitting against the running plate". Naturally that had not been built so I quickly put the frames aside and sought out the etches. Construction of the running plate was straightforward, just the drops at the cab and bufferbeams proving difficult. My loco will have deflectors and the etch has a slot for them to fit into. This makes the etch very fragile but with care everything went together properly. Now I could try the frames in the running plate and minor adjustments to the motion brackets could be made.
The next major task was to fit the springs, each of which is made up of three castings which took quite a bit of cleaning up before they could be built up.
I made a very simple jig to ensure the spring hangers would be level against the frames. This little exercise took a good five hours to finish.
The last two days has seen work resumed on the frames with the cylinder detail added, slidebars and crossheads made up and coupling and connecting rods built. Easy to say but most castings needed a lot of cleaning up and of course the slidebar to crosshead interface had to be perfect. The slidebar castings are superb and only needed polishing. The crosshead casting was of a similar quality but needed the piston rod to be added and time and patience were required to ensure the rods were perfectly true. As you can see today I have achieved a working chassis.
Now a plea for help. There are no instructions for locating the bogie pivot and two are supplied. Can anyone give me some help to get this right?
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
I now have a 4-6-0 chassis. Years ago I built one of these locos for a colleague and fortunately I keep a photographic record of each build. Unfortunately I had not taken detailed photos of the bogie but was able to identify the parts to form the pivot. My confusion was that the castings have three different forms of pivot, two were obvious but would not work in any way. The third I had discounted and this was the one to use!
This week work has been concentrated on the boiler, firebox and cab assembly. Both the boiler and firebox went together very well but the cab was and still is a different matter.
Aligning the boiler and firebox correctly requires them to be in place on the running plate. This was relatively straightforward with only 10 tabs to fit into 10 slots. Initially the firebox was too high and to be fair the instructions did say the middle splashers might need attention. This proved to be an understatement because I think the firebox must have been in and out of the running plate at least 12 times! However for the final fit it was necessary for the cab frame on the back of the firebox. This added another 10 tabs to slot-in but now on two different plains. You can imagine the language.
The air turned even bluer when I started to form the inner frame for the cab. The instructions say this is a fiddly and delicate job and they are right. But with the necessity to keep trial fitting everything the assembly became steadily less robust. A further issue was the rear plank to the cab floor was too long and 3mm had to be taken out to get the cab square. Work on the cab is ongoing and maybe tomorrow it will be ready for fitting.
Before the final fix between firebox and boiler lead was added to the boiler. Then with patience everything was got into the correct alignment and selective tabs turned to hold each unit in place. A temporary fixing bolt under the smokebox holds the boiler in place. I used expoxy to glue the firebox to the boiler. After allowing four hours for the glue to fully set the cab frame was removed.
A minor issue has arisen with the motor and gearbox. I am using an ABC assembly and the suggested alignment in the instructions for the motor to be almost upright has proved to be impractical. The motor and gearbox will now be in the horizontal plain which will require a new motor restraint plus minor alterations to the framing inside the firebox.
This week work has been concentrated on the boiler, firebox and cab assembly. Both the boiler and firebox went together very well but the cab was and still is a different matter.
Aligning the boiler and firebox correctly requires them to be in place on the running plate. This was relatively straightforward with only 10 tabs to fit into 10 slots. Initially the firebox was too high and to be fair the instructions did say the middle splashers might need attention. This proved to be an understatement because I think the firebox must have been in and out of the running plate at least 12 times! However for the final fit it was necessary for the cab frame on the back of the firebox. This added another 10 tabs to slot-in but now on two different plains. You can imagine the language.
The air turned even bluer when I started to form the inner frame for the cab. The instructions say this is a fiddly and delicate job and they are right. But with the necessity to keep trial fitting everything the assembly became steadily less robust. A further issue was the rear plank to the cab floor was too long and 3mm had to be taken out to get the cab square. Work on the cab is ongoing and maybe tomorrow it will be ready for fitting.
Before the final fix between firebox and boiler lead was added to the boiler. Then with patience everything was got into the correct alignment and selective tabs turned to hold each unit in place. A temporary fixing bolt under the smokebox holds the boiler in place. I used expoxy to glue the firebox to the boiler. After allowing four hours for the glue to fully set the cab frame was removed.
A minor issue has arisen with the motor and gearbox. I am using an ABC assembly and the suggested alignment in the instructions for the motor to be almost upright has proved to be impractical. The motor and gearbox will now be in the horizontal plain which will require a new motor restraint plus minor alterations to the framing inside the firebox.
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
A quick update from yesterday, today the cab was tackled, a job I was not looking forward to as you may have gathered! This photo shows the cab frame and one of the outer "skins".
In fact construction while still being fiddly was straightforward once the floor was installed. This gave the flimsy "cage" some stability and at last it could be handled with confidence. All of the basic interior fittings have been added, i.e. cab seats and oil box cupboard as they would be the devil to try and fit at a later stage. The cab overlays are brilliant half etches which only required their slots easing for the tabs on the cab roof ribs to get a near perfect fit at the first attempt. With the cab overlays in place and soldered up there is a gap in roof which is covered by another half etch making the entire structure near bomb proof!
This photo shows the engine body in its most basic first fit with still a lot of cleaning up to do but everything is going together very well.
The boiler and firebox require work to fill the tiny gap between them; yes the instructions do say filling will be required. Once this is done I can then tackle fitting the 20 tags into their respective slots and finally soldering everything in place.
There will now be a short intermission to collect a 76XXX from Warren Haywood. Maybe a photo might appear in the near future!
In fact construction while still being fiddly was straightforward once the floor was installed. This gave the flimsy "cage" some stability and at last it could be handled with confidence. All of the basic interior fittings have been added, i.e. cab seats and oil box cupboard as they would be the devil to try and fit at a later stage. The cab overlays are brilliant half etches which only required their slots easing for the tabs on the cab roof ribs to get a near perfect fit at the first attempt. With the cab overlays in place and soldered up there is a gap in roof which is covered by another half etch making the entire structure near bomb proof!
This photo shows the engine body in its most basic first fit with still a lot of cleaning up to do but everything is going together very well.
The boiler and firebox require work to fill the tiny gap between them; yes the instructions do say filling will be required. Once this is done I can then tackle fitting the 20 tags into their respective slots and finally soldering everything in place.
There will now be a short intermission to collect a 76XXX from Warren Haywood. Maybe a photo might appear in the near future!
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
In the very near future
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Work has resumed on the Lord Nelson following a week off. The first task was to fill the slight gap between the boiler and firebox front. Warren suggested using cellulose stopper and a tube was quickly acquired, I used a fine stopper which worked well. While this was curing more work was carried out on the cab and I mistakenly thought to fit it to the running plate without the boiler etc. in place. You've guessed, I had to undo that work, there was no way the boiler would now fit into the running plate.
With the cab removed and finally attached to the back of the firebox better progress could be made. Everything fitted together perfectly and the seam on the cab front overlay soldered to the cab sides. The entire assembly was then offered up to the running plate starting with fitting the smokebox front in its slots and working backwards. Of the 20 tabs that required fitting 19 went home perfectly, the other was cut off!
A few of the tabs were turned to hold everything in place and all looked well until a straight edge was put on the running plate. There was a distinct bow on both sides. The problem was with the middle splashers interfering with the firebox front. I thought my earlier work in this area was fine but with everything "tight" it proved not to be. The drivers side required minimal attention and the problem disappeared. The firemans side required considerable work as the issue was not exactly the same as on the other side. The band over the front of the firebox also required shortening and the location was a devil to get at.
Alongside the body work progress has been made with the frames. All the rods for the drain cocks and sandboxes has been installed and a start made on the brakes. Here a snag has arisen. The location holes for the leading and middle hangers are perfect but the rear hangers need to move back about 1mm to give some clearance. This will be next week's work.
With the cab removed and finally attached to the back of the firebox better progress could be made. Everything fitted together perfectly and the seam on the cab front overlay soldered to the cab sides. The entire assembly was then offered up to the running plate starting with fitting the smokebox front in its slots and working backwards. Of the 20 tabs that required fitting 19 went home perfectly, the other was cut off!
A few of the tabs were turned to hold everything in place and all looked well until a straight edge was put on the running plate. There was a distinct bow on both sides. The problem was with the middle splashers interfering with the firebox front. I thought my earlier work in this area was fine but with everything "tight" it proved not to be. The drivers side required minimal attention and the problem disappeared. The firemans side required considerable work as the issue was not exactly the same as on the other side. The band over the front of the firebox also required shortening and the location was a devil to get at.
Alongside the body work progress has been made with the frames. All the rods for the drain cocks and sandboxes has been installed and a start made on the brakes. Here a snag has arisen. The location holes for the leading and middle hangers are perfect but the rear hangers need to move back about 1mm to give some clearance. This will be next week's work.
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Despite the loco only being a 4-2-0 there has been a fair degree of progress with Lord St. Vincent.
The frames have not been touched this week but following a discussion with Dikitriki I do have a way forward with the brakes! To my relief he experienced the same issues with the brake block castings being far too generous in size and by "savage" thinning down everything can be made to fit. Time will tell.
Meanwhile work on the engine body has proceeded apace and almost all of the fiddly detailing has been fitted. Rather than use the very flimsy etched lamp irons I have fitted Laurie Griffin's cast versions. The other castings required minimal cleaning up before fitting but a little filling will be required around the dome and chimney. A recurring problem has developed with the ejector pipe coming adrift from the casting on the smokebox. Despite a generous application of solder any movement of the pipe during handling results in a fracture of the joint. I'm going to have to give this problem more thought. Forgive the blob around the joint on the above photo, this is work in progress - honest!
A start has been made on the valve gear with the reverser and rod fitted and the lifting arms in place. The only work left on the engine is to fit cab doors and handrails and build the backhead.
Hopefully next week these final chores can be cleared up and real progress made on the frames.
When everything is finished Lord St. V will go away for painting and lining. I'm intending completing him/her in 1958 condition which is prior to speedometer and AWS fitting but if a suitable battery box can be found then an upgrade to 1960 condition will be considered. The speedo crank etc. is already present in the kit.
Once this build is out of the works the next loco will be a Scorpio 2021 Pannier Tank.
Cheers
Roger
The frames have not been touched this week but following a discussion with Dikitriki I do have a way forward with the brakes! To my relief he experienced the same issues with the brake block castings being far too generous in size and by "savage" thinning down everything can be made to fit. Time will tell.
Meanwhile work on the engine body has proceeded apace and almost all of the fiddly detailing has been fitted. Rather than use the very flimsy etched lamp irons I have fitted Laurie Griffin's cast versions. The other castings required minimal cleaning up before fitting but a little filling will be required around the dome and chimney. A recurring problem has developed with the ejector pipe coming adrift from the casting on the smokebox. Despite a generous application of solder any movement of the pipe during handling results in a fracture of the joint. I'm going to have to give this problem more thought. Forgive the blob around the joint on the above photo, this is work in progress - honest!
A start has been made on the valve gear with the reverser and rod fitted and the lifting arms in place. The only work left on the engine is to fit cab doors and handrails and build the backhead.
Hopefully next week these final chores can be cleared up and real progress made on the frames.
When everything is finished Lord St. V will go away for painting and lining. I'm intending completing him/her in 1958 condition which is prior to speedometer and AWS fitting but if a suitable battery box can be found then an upgrade to 1960 condition will be considered. The speedo crank etc. is already present in the kit.
Once this build is out of the works the next loco will be a Scorpio 2021 Pannier Tank.
Cheers
Roger