Prototype Barry 1967 and 1968

[oldravendale]

Hi Alan.

Please keep chipping in on this thread. I'm always delighted when it starts to drift away from the defined starting point, and if things get too involved we can set up a new thread at that time.

Two 8Fs today. To start with 48173, in somewhat more complete condition than you remember, Alan. This was withdrawn from Mold Junction in July 1965 and arrived at Barry in October the same year. It was purchased by the Avon Valley Railway and moved to Bitton in September 1988. It's currently under restoration, as described by Alan above, at the Churnet Valley Railway.



This is 48518. It was withdrawn from Willesden in June 1965 and arrived at Barry in the following October. It's been used as a source of parts for, among others, the County of Glamorgan and Unknown Warrior projects. The boiler barrel will be used on 48173 above and the frames are scrapped.



Here's one I took earlier, looking in quite reasonable order for the time, at Willesden on 1st August 1965, so already withdrawn although that's not very apparent. Willesden rarely if ever had a row of withdrawn engines and this is on a working shed road so I wonder whether the quoted withdrawal date may be a bit early. The shed closed 27th August the same year.



Brian

 

[Jordan]

Here's one I took earlier, looking in quite reasonable order for the time, at Willesden on 1st August 1965, so already withdrawn although that's not very apparent.

I note how clean the Overhead warning flashes are compared to the rest of the loco.
Would that be because they were a relatively recent addition? Or were they kept clean anyway as a reminder to 'Old Hands' who might forget about the high voltage knitting just over their heads now on the main line?

 

[oldravendale]

That's an interesting comment on the overhead warning flashes, and not something I'd thought about previously. As the surrounding areas show no evidence of "overspill" cleaning I suspect that they cleaned themselves. In fact I liberated one of these from a withdrawn L1 tank loco and even though the loco was filthy, rusty and all you'd expect the flash was quite clean.

We're coming to the end of the Barry photos but still a few to come. First here's an 8F not seen previously. 48624 is another Willesden loco, withdrawn in July 1965 and it entered Barry in October 1965. It left in July 1981 for Peak Rail where it was restored to service in May 2009. It's now on the GCR and published info says it's awaiting overhaul, although I believe that is currently ongoing.



Here's 53808, details in post # 159. My records do not confirm the loco behind.





Finally for today another of 53809 which was in post # 163.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

When there were around 10,300 steam locos running around on the London Midland Region alone, slight differences in locos of one class were eagerly noted by linesiders. In preservation, it doesn't matter in the slightest. These thoughts were brought about through looking at these photos at Barry.

 

[Osgood]

Well I have to say Brian, the soon to end visits to Barry through your lens have been fascinating - as one who never witnessed the Barry scene for myself I really appreciate you sharing them.

Views of steam scrapyards (and Barry in particular) inevitably solicit a range of reactions: for some it is all too much and does not make for pleasant viewing, but for others like me there is an air of sentiment and serenity about the scenes of rust and decay, of derelict machines slowly being assimilated by nature.

I missed all the railway yards, but always keep an eye out for stuff - it is surprising how much can still be found.
Just a few examples:

Conduit and light switch in the abandoned military installation at Orford Ness:


A WW2 AEC Matador gun tractor, still wearing its demob suit from the Ruddington MOD Sales, at a local sawmill:


An early Chaseside loading shovel at a local yard (recently cut up after sitting for 40 odd years):


Diamond T tank transporter from WW2 at Beke's yard, Paris (recently cleared to make way for a new Paris Metro station):



Another rail yard to have (finally) made it into print is Cohen's at Cransley near Kettering - I can recommend Jeffrey Grayer's recent book: Cohen's

 

[oldravendale]

I agree with you, Tony, dereliction has a certain atmosphere. When I visited Barry those locos were, for the most part, arguably in too good a condition to be considered truly derelict. In fact I suspect that a fire could have been lit in many of them and they'd have steamed. (Not that they'd have gone anywhere without connecting/coupling rods!)

However, your photos show real dereliction. I really like them. 30 - 40 years ago I'd occasionally visit the London docklands with a camera to photograph the derelict warehouses and empty streets which were at risk of demolition before they became gentrified. I remembered them when they were working - not that I have any "then and then" comparisons. if you see what I mean.

For today we're (mostly) on Standards. First is a mixed bag of 71000 with 46428, 5572 and 47406. All have been in previous posts - 71000 in # 163, 46428 in #150, 5572 in # 193 and 47406 in # 155. 71000 also appears in the subsequent two photos.







We've not seen Standard 5 73156 previously and it's one I know well as it's running on the GCR. It was withdrawn from Bolton in November 1967 and arrived at Barry in February 1968 so it hadn't even arrived on the occasion of my first visit. It remained there until October 1986 when it moved to the East Lancs Railway. It moved to Loughborough in 2002 where restoration work was completed and it returned to operation in September 2017.



Finally for today Standard 4 75014 which was the subject of post # 167.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

My view of 'then & now' albums is they were produced by lazy authors who depended on elderly railway photographers. No one really wanted to look at photos of supermarkets, council offices, industrial estates, or plain dereliction.

 

[oldravendale]

I understand your comment, Larry, but I was thinking more docklands working (up to the mid 50s or so), derelict (70s to mid 80s - sometimes beyond) and from 2000 onwards which (Canary Wharf being the major exception) sees the warehouses in use as restaurants and housing.

For me, who knew the docklands from the early 50s onwards, such comparisons would be fascinating.

Historical pictures can be found in certain books but there are few comparing the same building across the decades.

Brian

 

[Osgood]

In which case, Brian, this forthcoming book may be of interest to you:

5928 - DOCKLAND, SMOKESTACKS AND SLUMS | Mortons Books

Dockland, Smokestacks and Slums

www.mortonsbooks.co.uk

My only reservation concerns the quality of print and the layout of this range of books which I thoroughly dislike ( fairly small format with a very wide textured wallpaper-like border that distracts from what becomes an even smaller image ).

 

[Focalplane]

Here's another, Birmingham, Then and Now by Mark Norton. The son put together the book using his late father's photographs. The key to the success of this book must be the ability to use similar camera and lenses, then find the optimum position to take the "now" photo.

An example from the cover:

 

[Simon]

This is not a good picture(!), but it is a bit of relevant history, as going back to Alan's comments regarding Bitton here is Black Five 45379 on the day it arrived from Barry at the nascent Bristol Suburban Railway in July 1974. Photo taken by my friend Brian Clarke.

A group of us teenagers used to go out there every week to volunteer doing track, under the tutelage of Horace Pitt, an ex Midland ganger of great character. We had the best ever laid two sidings after all of the fettling he got us to !!

We used to get the 332 bus back to Bath afterwards and dream of the day our trains would steam back in to Bath Green Park.....

I don't suppose Horace was still around when you first went there Alan, I 'd love to have a good photograph of him



Simon

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I note how clean the Overhead warning flashes are compared to the rest of the loco.
Would that be because they were a relatively recent addition? Or were they kept clean anyway as a reminder to 'Old Hands' who might forget about the high voltage knitting just over their heads now on the main line?

The overhead warning flashes started appearing during the very late 50s early 60s on steam locos which traversed 25kV (and 6.25kV in East Anglia and Glasgow before conversion to 25kV) overhead electrified lines.

From photos I've seen it appears steam locos were fitted with an overhead warning flash plate (enamel?) and by their very nature any water run off will go around and under the plate - thereby remaining relatively clean.

 

[Jordan]

On the slightly off-topic subject of "Then & Now" books, I think they mean more if you're familiar with the area they cover. I have a few that cover Gloucestershire railways, as well as local to me, and they're not always 'doom & gloom' car parks etc in the "Now" shots. Often they are, admittedly, but not always.

As for the Barry photos & 1960s decline of steam, I imagine it's a lot like the World Wars - fascinating times to look back on, but not so great to actually live through?
As I get older and the modern railway scene is nothing like what I was watching/spotting in the 70s & early 80s, I am coming to appreciate how difficult it must have been for steam enthusiasts to have any interest in diesels & electrics of 'my' time.

 

[parky]

This is not a good picture(!), but it is a bit of relevant history, as going back to Alan's comments regarding Bitton here is Black Five 45379 on the day it arrived from Barry at the nascent Bristol Suburban Railway in July 1974. Photo taken by my friend Brian Clarke.

A group of us teenagers used to go out there every week to volunteer doing track, under the tutelage of Horace Pitt, an ex Midland ganger of great character. We had the best ever laid two sidings after all of the fettling he got us to !!

We used to get the 332 bus back to Bath afterwards and dream of the day our trains would steam back in to Bath Green Park.....

I don't suppose Horace was still around when you first went there Alan, I 'd love to have a good photograph of him

View attachment 157357

Simon

No Horace was just part of the reminiscences back then as I didn't move to Keynsham till 87. Sounds like we could create our own thread with both our photographs of Bitton station through the years

 

[oldravendale]

Interesting stuff since my last posting of photos. Thanks to all.

I'll have a look at that Docklands book when it comes out, Tony. May be a bit generic in location terms for my interests which I have to admit are London-centric. At £35 I'm not placing a reservation without a check on the contents first.

I'll also take a look at the Birmingham book, Paul. It's a city I knew quite well up to the early 80s and has changed hugely since then. I have to admit to not going back in the last 40 years despite having eaten remarkably good curries there. (The best still has to be Bradford.)

Simon - considering it's quite lengthy sojourn at Barry that Black 5 looks in remarkable condition. It's clearly brought back some memories for you and we're lucky that some far sighted enthusiasts had the foresight to get it out of the yard.

Dave. The overhead warning flash I have is in some sort of high gloss composite - certainly not enamel. It looks a bit like Veroboard at the back. It'd clearly been on the loco for a while as there is evidence of painting round it rather than removing it so that the job could be done properly.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Jordan. I was very sad to see the final demise of steam I never really rekindled an interest in locomotives afterwards. I thought the blue period drab beyond belief, but this period is certainly remembered positively by enthusiasts of the time. There were exceptions like the Deltics and Class 40s but that was about it. I took photos of steam and diesel until the end of steam but very little thereafter. You may have seen the thread of Tim Mills' photos (shortly to be resurrected I hope) and Tim very rarely if ever took any photos of diesels while steam was around. Fortunately he took a few afterwards.

Today we are at the end of my Barry photos so anyone who wishes to continue a scrapyard thread as mentioned previously could do so here.

First is BR Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76017. It was withdrawn from Salisbury in July 1965 and was at Barry in January 1966. It was moved to Quainton Road in January 1974. Some work was doe at Quanton but the loco moved to the MHR where restoration was completed by May 1984. It's currently operational on the MHR.





80078 was withdrawn from Croes Newydd in July 1965 and arrived at Barry in June 1966 where it remained until September 1976. It went to Swanage where restoration was completed in October 1999. It's currently operational with a home base at Mangapps Railway Museum but can usually be seen at other railways.



This is 9F 92214. It was withdrawn from Severn Tunnel Junction in August 1965 and arrived at Barry in October the same year. In December 1980 it went to Buxton. It was restored at Butterley by July 2003. Following a further overhaul it is now operational on the GCR, although regrettably named and in the green livery it never carried.





Now to 92240. It was withdrawn from Southall in August 1965 , arrived at Barry in the October and left in October 1978 for the Bluebell Railway. It returned to steam in 1990. It's currently on static display.



Now to the last couple. Someone else will have to fill in the details for this one, as it's D600 and D601.



And finally those wagons I promised to feature as seen in an earlier picture of the S15 and kindly detailed by Adam in post # 204.



That's it, folks. Thanks for all the "Likes" and I'm so pleased that these photos have had some entertainment value for at least a few.

Brian

Edit: To complete the 9F story I've just found this one, of 92240 in its last days at Southall. I took this on 18th July 1965, still in steam, and it was withdrawn the following month.

 

[parky]

Wagons you say Even back in the late 80's there were still wooden bodied wagons being cut

 

[oldravendale]

I'm glad someone had the foresight to take some pictures!

Brian

 

[AJC]

Wagons you say Even back in the late 80's there were still wooden bodied wagons being cut

View attachment 157398

BR-built Tube wagons: BR Tube wagons - LMS design diag 1/447

Adam

 

[Arun Sharma]

Interesting stuff since my last posting of photos. Thanks to all.

I'll have a look at that Docklands book when it comes out, Tony. May be a bit generic in location terms for my interests which I have to admit are London-centric. At £35 I'm not placing a reservation without a check on the contents first.

I'll also take a look at the Birmingham book, Paul. It's a city I knew quite well up to the early 80s and has changed hugely since then. I have to admit to not going back in the last 40 years despite having eaten remarkably good curries there. (The best still has to be Bradford.)

Simon - considering it's quite lengthy sojourn at Barry that Black 5 looks in remarkable condition. It's clearly brought back some memories for you and we're lucky that some far sighted enthusiasts had the foresight to get it out of the yard.

Dave. The overhead warning flash I have is in some sort of high gloss composite - certainly not enamel. It looks a bit like Veroboard at the back. It'd clearly been on the loco for a while as there is evidence of painting round it rather than removing it so that the job could be done properly.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Jordan. I was very sad to see the final demise of steam I never really rekindled an interest in locomotives afterwards. I thought the blue period drab beyond belief, but this period is certainly remembered positively by enthusiasts of the time. There were exceptions like the Deltics and Class 40s but that was about it. I took photos of steam and diesel until the end of steam but very little thereafter. You may have seen the thread of Tim Mills' photos (shortly to be resurrected I hope) and Tim very rarely if ever took any photos of diesels while steam was around. Fortunately he took a few afterwards.

Today we are at the end of my Barry photos so anyone who wishes to continue a scrapyard thread as mentioned previously could do so here.

First is BR Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76017. It was withdrawn from Salisbury in July 1965 and was at Barry in January 1966. It was moved to Quainton Road in January 1974. Some work was doe at Quanton but the loco moved to the MHR where restoration was completed by May 1984. It's currently operational on the MHR.

View attachment 157388

View attachment 157389

80078 was withdrawn from Croes Newydd in July 1965 and arrived at Barry in June 1966 where it remained until September 1976. It went to Swanage where restoration was completed in October 1999. It's currently operational with a home base at Mangapps Railway Museum but can usually be seen at other railways.

View attachment 157390

This is 9F 92214. It was withdrawn from Severn Tunnel Junction in August 1965 and arrived at Barry in October the same year. In December 1980 it went to Buxton. It was restored at Butterley by July 2003. Following a further overhaul it is now operational on the GCR, although regrettably named and in the green livery it never carried.

View attachment 157391

View attachment 157392

Now to 92240. It was withdrawn from Southall in August 1965 , arrived at Barry in the October and left in October 1978 for the Bluebell Railway. It returned to steam in 1990. It's currently on static display.

View attachment 157393

Now to the last couple. Someone else will have to fill in the details for this one, as it's D600 and D601.

View attachment 157394

And finally those wagons I promised to feature as seen in an earlier picture of the S15 and kindly detailed by Adam in post # 204.

View attachment 157395

That's it, folks. Thanks for all the "Likes" and I'm so pleased that these photos have had some entertainment value for at least a few.

Brian

Edit: To complete the 9F story I've just found this one, of 92240 in its last days at Southall. I took this on 18th July 1965, still in steam, and it was withdrawn the following month.

View attachment 157397

Back in early '64? when Stratford's Jubilee Shed was full of preserved steam locos waiting restoration/final home, I saw Britannia there with half its nearside front warning flash broken and hanging off. It was stiff white formica with a grainy brown reverse side.

 

[parky]

Saw the genuine warning flash article in the pub on Tuesday night. It came off a loco being restored at KWVR years ago. It's a laminate of various plastics, white front and back on a black core material
A friend brought it in as it's going to Ellis Clarks to make sure their planned Black 5 has it spot on