Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi,
A bit of assistance if I may - stemming largely from my ignorance of the Marklin system I'm sure.
I took my 78 to test yesterday, and we got not a peep out of it - no noise, no movement, just a few clicks.
Now , the loco I have is from the last of Marklin's production as I understand it, from their 55021 set, and I am attaching below the relevant part of the manual.
Reading this, I have a suspicion that the Marklin system is incompatible with the NCE system we were trying it with (I would also say that we didn't get movement with straight DC either). Can anyone confirm that this is the case?
Since I am going to have to DCC the garden layout, Can I further assume that the optimum solution would be to put in a new, modern DCC chip.
Assuming I want to put in a sound chip, does anyone have any experience in this, or advice as to which would be the best chip to put in, both from a motor control and sound perspective.
Many thanks.
Richard
A bit of assistance if I may - stemming largely from my ignorance of the Marklin system I'm sure.
I took my 78 to test yesterday, and we got not a peep out of it - no noise, no movement, just a few clicks.
Now , the loco I have is from the last of Marklin's production as I understand it, from their 55021 set, and I am attaching below the relevant part of the manual.
Reading this, I have a suspicion that the Marklin system is incompatible with the NCE system we were trying it with (I would also say that we didn't get movement with straight DC either). Can anyone confirm that this is the case?
Since I am going to have to DCC the garden layout, Can I further assume that the optimum solution would be to put in a new, modern DCC chip.
Assuming I want to put in a sound chip, does anyone have any experience in this, or advice as to which would be the best chip to put in, both from a motor control and sound perspective.
Many thanks.
Richard
Richard Spoors
Western Thunderer
Richard, Marklin's system either works on their own controllers or ESU's ECOS. You will need to renew the decoder to use your NCE set up.
Regards
Richard
Regards
Richard
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Noting what Richard has said above, the ESU decoder documentation makes reference to some variants of Lokpilot / Loksound decoders being able to work with Marklin systems...
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
As Richard says the Märklin DCC system is not compatible with NMRA DCC systems as they have different protocols. NCE uses the NMRA protocol and Märklin the Motorola protocol, however, ESU's ECOS system is multi protocol.
If you want to operate both then the only option would appear to be the ESU ECOS base station (expensive?) otherwise install a new decoder (cheaper?). As Dog Star has alluded to ESU's V4.0 decoders are multi protocol so they can be used with both Märklin and NMRA DCC systems.
I only thus far have experience in programming ESU and Lenz decoders (and the odd Quantum QSI decoder) therefore I would go with ESU as they have a sound profile for a BR78 (ref 54522 for the XL version) and have very good motor control which can be tailored to suit the motor. I don't know what motor Märklin use in their large locos but you may be able to get away with the new ESU L v4.0 sound decoder if the current draw is low.
Richard Spoors
Western Thunderer
Richard, you might consider a new motor when you find out the current consumption of the Marklin one in your 78. I have attached a file from sb-modellbau in Germany.
Regards
Richard
Regards
Richard
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi Richard,
Thank you for that. My BR 78 is not on that list, being in production from around 2001 -2008, and described in the blurb as having 'controlled high-efficiency propulsion'. Until I take the lid off I won't know, but I'm not expecting to have to replace the motor as well, or it starts to become a much less economic proposition.
Richard
Thank you for that. My BR 78 is not on that list, being in production from around 2001 -2008, and described in the blurb as having 'controlled high-efficiency propulsion'. Until I take the lid off I won't know, but I'm not expecting to have to replace the motor as well, or it starts to become a much less economic proposition.
Richard
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I think the clue to the exhaust issues may be there in that photo.
How all the technical examiners missed it I'll never understand. Certainly with all that smoke and steam there must be a clue there........
Brian
How all the technical examiners missed it I'll never understand. Certainly with all that smoke and steam there must be a clue there........
Brian
Mike Sheardown
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard,
Regarding decoders, I'd suggest looking at the Loksound range, as they have an extensive range of downloadable sound files that are specific to your loco. In addition, you could add your own sounds, and/or others from other sound profiles (you don't have to limit yourself to the sounds of just one loco sound profile).
You can have a look at what's available in the downloads section of their website here:
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/
Of course you'd need a LokProgrammer to add the files to the chip, but I'd be happy to help with that if you don't have access to same.
Also, if there are high current demands, made by the motor you have, their XL chip supplies up to 4amps continuous load.
Just some stuff to consider
Cheers
Mike
Ooops - sorry, just read Dave's reply regarding using Loksound chips above. Didn't realise he'd already recommended these??!!! Still, they are exceptionally good in my view!!!
Regarding decoders, I'd suggest looking at the Loksound range, as they have an extensive range of downloadable sound files that are specific to your loco. In addition, you could add your own sounds, and/or others from other sound profiles (you don't have to limit yourself to the sounds of just one loco sound profile).
You can have a look at what's available in the downloads section of their website here:
http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/
Of course you'd need a LokProgrammer to add the files to the chip, but I'd be happy to help with that if you don't have access to same.
Also, if there are high current demands, made by the motor you have, their XL chip supplies up to 4amps continuous load.
Just some stuff to consider
Cheers
Mike
Ooops - sorry, just read Dave's reply regarding using Loksound chips above. Didn't realise he'd already recommended these??!!! Still, they are exceptionally good in my view!!!
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The SB modellbau page implies the current draw of the original Märklin motor is in excess of 1A.
It'll be interesting to see the motor and how it is mounted in your BR78. Reading the Deutsche forums it appears the newer models are/were fitted with more modern motors. If this is the case then you'll probably get away with the ESU XL decoder if not the newer L.
It'll be interesting to see the motor and how it is mounted in your BR78. Reading the Deutsche forums it appears the newer models are/were fitted with more modern motors. If this is the case then you'll probably get away with the ESU XL decoder if not the newer L.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I took the lid off mine last week....it's a bloody big motor in there LOL
I've already consigned to junking their circuit board and upgrading with more modern technologies, if I can find a decoder that'll take the current draw....not measured yet but on my list of things to do when I get back home.
Loksound was also going to be my preferred route, primarily as a test for some US stuff and the MP15DC sound isn't as nice as I'd like so that set up will be pulled out...possibly.
I've already consigned to junking their circuit board and upgrading with more modern technologies, if I can find a decoder that'll take the current draw....not measured yet but on my list of things to do when I get back home.
Loksound was also going to be my preferred route, primarily as a test for some US stuff and the MP15DC sound isn't as nice as I'd like so that set up will be pulled out...possibly.
Mike Sheardown
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard,
Yes, please don't hesitate to get in touch if you feel I can indeed be of any help.
Kind Regards
Mike
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi,
Most of my time post Telford has been in sorting Heyside and tidying the room in which it lives - 3 car loads to the dump yesterday
However, I have found time to complete the clip-on cylinders for my BR44. The one had been done, although the steam pipe had not been finished, but I have now built the second side, and worked on the cylinder fronts and piston tail rod covers. The cylinder front has a series of holes to clear the bolts attaching the real cylinder ends, and the tail rod covers are an interference fit in case they need to be removed when running round tight curves.
My acid-etch black primer has arrived, so I shall chemically blacken the nickel-silver and then paint the cylinders. There's a few more things I need to work on, but the initial steam test day is getting closer.
Richard
Most of my time post Telford has been in sorting Heyside and tidying the room in which it lives - 3 car loads to the dump yesterday
However, I have found time to complete the clip-on cylinders for my BR44. The one had been done, although the steam pipe had not been finished, but I have now built the second side, and worked on the cylinder fronts and piston tail rod covers. The cylinder front has a series of holes to clear the bolts attaching the real cylinder ends, and the tail rod covers are an interference fit in case they need to be removed when running round tight curves.
My acid-etch black primer has arrived, so I shall chemically blacken the nickel-silver and then paint the cylinders. There's a few more things I need to work on, but the initial steam test day is getting closer.
Richard
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
Are even the latest Marklin decoders (mfx?) not NMRA compatible?
Tim
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Hi Tim
Having trawled t'internet the latest generation of the Märklin MFX decoders are multi protocol (they were developed with ESU). However to use them with the standard NMRA DCC it appears you'll have to reprogram some of the functions as they may not work. You'll have to use their system I believe SPROG does not support Märklin MFX decoder programming .
The link here is to a Märklin HO conversion decoder and pages 6, 7, 8, 14 and 18 look at the protocols. http://www.rjftrains.com/technical/60965_6_7_en.pdf.
This link is to Märklin.de for a conversion decoder https://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60975_betrieb.pdf . It is a 96 page document (D, UK & US) and, again, it refers to multi protocol.
I trust this assists.
Having trawled t'internet the latest generation of the Märklin MFX decoders are multi protocol (they were developed with ESU). However to use them with the standard NMRA DCC it appears you'll have to reprogram some of the functions as they may not work. You'll have to use their system I believe SPROG does not support Märklin MFX decoder programming .
The link here is to a Märklin HO conversion decoder and pages 6, 7, 8, 14 and 18 look at the protocols. http://www.rjftrains.com/technical/60965_6_7_en.pdf.
This link is to Märklin.de for a conversion decoder https://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60975_betrieb.pdf . It is a 96 page document (D, UK & US) and, again, it refers to multi protocol.
I trust this assists.
TheSnapper
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave
Sorry I didn't reply earlier - been out today.
Thanks for all this info - it all seems very complicated, but it looks as though an MFX fitted loco may well work with my NCE system, albeit with some fiddling.
My intended loco will be Gauge1 - anyone out there with had any experience of this?
Cheers
Tim
Sorry I didn't reply earlier - been out today.
Thanks for all this info - it all seems very complicated, but it looks as though an MFX fitted loco may well work with my NCE system, albeit with some fiddling.
My intended loco will be Gauge1 - anyone out there with had any experience of this?
Cheers
Tim
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
It's been a while since I have posted yet my German steam fleet continues to expand. The latest addition is a Kiss Class 38 4-6-0 bought as used via Ebay. In fact all the manufacturers packaging was still in place and the wheels are pristine. The only missing item was the operating instructions. I have written twice to Kiss to try and obtain a copy but their customer care department does not appear to be being staffed
I wanted this particular model because I wish to eventually renumber it as 38 3863 and the new Märklin model with a Wannen tender does not fit the bill, the cab is different. The detail etc. is superb except for the gap between engine and tender.
and on a curve it looks like this
These photos show the problem, all my other tender locos are close coupled but not this one. Moving the coupling on the engine is a non starter because it would obstruct the cam which works the cylinder sound equipment. The only option looks to be to move the tender coupling back and this photo shows the loco on a 6ft curve
There appears to be some scope to modify the drawbar. Has anyone experience of this particular loco configuration and has the instructions booklet? Is there a second fixing point under the tender which is only shown in the booklet? Any ideas?
By the way I have exactly the same coupling arrangement on another loco and the gap between loco and tender is minimal.
I wanted this particular model because I wish to eventually renumber it as 38 3863 and the new Märklin model with a Wannen tender does not fit the bill, the cab is different. The detail etc. is superb except for the gap between engine and tender.
and on a curve it looks like this
These photos show the problem, all my other tender locos are close coupled but not this one. Moving the coupling on the engine is a non starter because it would obstruct the cam which works the cylinder sound equipment. The only option looks to be to move the tender coupling back and this photo shows the loco on a 6ft curve
There appears to be some scope to modify the drawbar. Has anyone experience of this particular loco configuration and has the instructions booklet? Is there a second fixing point under the tender which is only shown in the booklet? Any ideas?
By the way I have exactly the same coupling arrangement on another loco and the gap between loco and tender is minimal.