Gluing sides and ends of a JLTRT kit

[Dog Star]

(This topic has been extracted from another topic... content diverging from the original posting)

What adhesive did you use to join the cabs to the sides? I've been trying some of these two part epoxys on other small parts, admittedly brass and white metal and they are not playing ball so I don't really trust them on large JLTRT loco parts.

JLTRT recommends super-glue... and I do not get on with the products that are recommended. Far too often the joint fails when the parts get knocked in handling. On the other hand I do have success with the 5 minute Araldite which is supplied in syringe form. I used Araldite to build a JLTRT Cl.37 last week and I am happy with the result.

OK - if the mix ratio is not close to manufacturer's instructions then the mixed adhesive appears to work in that the gloop is sticky yet the glue does not harden and can be removed with a cloth. What this means is that I have to use a minimum volume of adhesive / hardener to ensure a good joint - so if doing small parts have a fair number to hand so as to make best use of the mix (probably about five or six parts to allow time to apply glue and then attach / adjust the parts).

regards, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

I'm not sure how it actually works, but while at Telford Pete Waterman was explaining his technique for using the superglue method.

I think it was a two stage process, using one of the thinner glues to hold the parts, accelerator to fix it, followed by a thicker glue to form a more permanent joint. Sounded complicated to me. I use a similar approach, with a spot of glue on the joint, followed by running thinner glue into the joint from a cocktail stick.

Detail parts really need a pin as well as glue. I also score the mating surfaces for the glue to key into, like a plasterer does on a wall.

 

[Dan Randall]

Dan,

Looking good

What adhesive did you use to join the cabs to the sides? I've been trying some of these two part epoxys on other small parts, admittedly brass and white metal and they are not playing ball so I don't really trust them on large JLTRT loco parts.

Hi Mickoo

I used one of the superglues recommended by JLTRT, in this case, ZAP-A-GAP (which has a green label). I bought mine from Eileen's Emporium. This is the one with gap filling properties - I didn't want to use the thinner version (ZAP CA, pink label), as I had visions of it spreading to unwanted places!


Regards

Dan

 

[mickoo]

Dan, I have some of that and it didn't fair well with Nickle Silver to Plasticard but then JLTRT kits are a different material so I might try and whizz the class 40 body up this weekend and see what happens

I noticed you used Aradlite on your coach and when dry sanded smooth, all my Aradlite 5 min mixes remain slightly rubbery and do not sand well at all

 

[mickoo]

JLTRT recommends super-glue... and I do not get on with the products that are recommended. Far too often the joint fails when the parts get knocked in handling. On the other hand I do have success with the 5 minute Araldite which is supplied in syringe form. I used Araldite to build a JLTRT Cl.37 last week and I am happy with the result.

OK - if the mix ratio is not close to manufacturer's instructions then the mixed adhesive appears to work in that the gloop is sticky yet the glue does not harden and can be removed with a tissue. What this means is that I have to use a minimum volume of adhesive / hardener to ensure a good joint - so if doing small parts have a fair number to hand so as to make best use of the mix (probably about five or six parts to allow time to apply glue and then attach / adjust the parts).

regards, Graham

I've been using the tube stuff you mix and no matter how I mix the gel or hardener the joint invariably fails at some point sooner or later, one is not amused!

 

[Dog Star]

I have some of that and it didn't fair well with Nickle Silver to Plasticard...

A joint between metal and styrene, made using superglue, is going to fail especially if the styrene is in tension. The glue just does not bond well to the styrene. On the other hand, Gordon Gravett wrote a MRJ article about use of ABS as a replacement for styrene and that material does make a good joint with superglue.

... all my Aradlite 5 min mixes remain slightly rubbery and do not sand well at all

That reads as if either the mixing was not thorough or the adhesive/hardener ratio was not close to optimal (see my earlier post here).

regards, Graham

 

[mickoo]

Graham, as noted already above, no matter how I mix it, it does not set well or adhere well, I have 'stuck' eight white metal axle boxes and six have failed and been stuck and re stuck using many variations in mixes and it is all mixed well, but I shall persist!

Regarding styrene, the CA is actually parting off the NS, not the styrene, it sticks to that like the proverbial does to a blanket and needs sanding smooth for re-sticking, now that adhesive does set solid and can be sanded.

 

[iploffy]

I have had the same problem, I noticed that different epoxies had differening consistancies, so now what I tend to do is to try a small amount first and mix it up then wait for it to dry. I have never got on with 5 min setting times as I consider the joint to be still green, so I tend to leave it over night to set, if it does not set correctly and dries rubbery I scrape it off and re do again this time using more hardener. Another thing I was told is to use a scratch to roughen up the surface to be bonded.

 

[mickoo]

I have had the same problem, I noticed that different epoxies had differening consistancies, so now what I tend to do is to try a small amount first and mix it up then wait for it to dry. I have never got on with 5 min setting times as I consider the joint to be still green, so I tend to leave it over night to set, if it does not set correctly and dries rubbery I scrape it off and re do again this time using more hardener. Another thing I was told is to use a scratch to roughen up the surface to be bonded.

Interesting, I just dug out my old mixed left overs and sure enough, some of the mixes used in the past have dried rock solid, others still feel slightly softer. I have roughed up each surface but maybe it needs a little more.

 

[alcazar]

Talking to a guy who uses glues in his job, he opined that joining like materials was always easier than two different ones.

I've never had much success with superglue, except joining skin to skin...when I cut myself quite badly on holiday with a hardpoint woodsaw, the wound was closed with superglue...it WAS a Sunday after all, and nearest hospital was 20 miles. Nicked a vein, but it's healed nicely.

 

[Steph Dale]

To be fair, Jeff, that is what the stuff was invented for. The only problem is that it's very difficult for tissue to grow through it...
Steph

 

[mickoo]

Talking to a guy who uses glues in his job, he opined that joining like materials was always easier than two different ones.

I've never had much success with superglue, except joining skin to skin...when I cut myself quite badly on holiday with a hardpoint woodsaw, the wound was closed with superglue...it WAS a Sunday after all, and nearest hospital was 20 miles. Nicked a vein, but it's healed nicely.

I believe super glue was invented in the Vietnam war as a first level triage response to injuries sustained, so sticking skin to skin, is exactly what it was originally designed for

But yes your right, like to like material is best and using the correct adhesive helps, though in this case were all sticking odd materials to other odd materials, no hope really then LOL.

Doh, just beaten by Steph

 

[alcazar]

Yep...I used it because I've been told exactly that...by my eldest lad, who has more minor scars than enough, being an avid trials bike rider...and I mean pushbike.

 

[Mike W]

Building a model is always a ( v e r y ) long process for me, so the longer drying time of traditional Araldite isn't a problem and it just feels like it is stronger than the 5-minute type. I leave it overnight and add gentle heat if possible - e.g. on top of a radiator. More heat is even better (domestic oven) but rarely practical.

Mike

 

[Neil]

Never had a problem with the five minute epoxies, but I always deliberately overdo the hardener aiming to get about 5-10% more of it in the mix. Having said that if I'm joining styreme to metal then I use evo-stick contact adhesive (the old red tin/tube) by applying the evo-stck to the metal surface only, waiting 'till fully dry and then solvent welding the styrene to the coated metal surface.