mth
Western Thunderer
Brian,
Its the old BR standard.....No two things will be the same........
coat on and heading for door
7mm Newton Chambers Car Carriers
- Thread starter Brian Daniels
- Start date
Brian,
Its the old BR standard.....No two things will be the same........
coat on and heading for door
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
In the photo in this link http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p904823333
Have a look at the photo showing the two N/Cs vehicles with there doors open, The one that you can't see the number on is quoted as been E96299E and this has roof lights on both sides. Looking at E96291E it looks to have is roof light off set to one end of the roof panel.
Regarding the coupling I'd still go with an emergency coupling as I mentioned in this quote. "Well done Brian it looks like an emergency screw coupling to me as well. On some of the NXAs that were branded for Motorail use some of them had drop head buckeyes fitted, but that does not explain the use of the emergency screw coupling. It could have been something in the appendices for the use of these vehicles?"
The vehicle on the right has saddles on the buffer shanks that normally indicates a drop head buckeye is fitted. But looking at this photo in close up I don't think that this vehicle has a drop head as I can't see the gangway buffing plate in shot.
After rereading some of the posts in this thread I'm starting to think that some of our words could be getting mixed up.
Roof lights, down the centre, that is what it is. I've not seen a photo showing this.
Side lights, roof lights down the side, these could be down one side or both (I'd go for both) Set in the middle of the roof panel.
Off set lights, I'd been taking this as the same as side lights, but when I think about it Brian could have been meaning off set to one end as
E96286E shows in the Parkin MK1 book but I'd still go for them down both sides. In Paul Bartlett's set of photos (link http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h9a2005#h9a2005 ) it shows E96286 been cut up and this shows the roof lights in the same position as in the Parkin book off set to one end of the roof panel.
OzzyO.
Have a look at the photo showing the two N/Cs vehicles with there doors open, The one that you can't see the number on is quoted as been E96299E and this has roof lights on both sides. Looking at E96291E it looks to have is roof light off set to one end of the roof panel.
Regarding the coupling I'd still go with an emergency coupling as I mentioned in this quote. "Well done Brian it looks like an emergency screw coupling to me as well. On some of the NXAs that were branded for Motorail use some of them had drop head buckeyes fitted, but that does not explain the use of the emergency screw coupling. It could have been something in the appendices for the use of these vehicles?"
The vehicle on the right has saddles on the buffer shanks that normally indicates a drop head buckeye is fitted. But looking at this photo in close up I don't think that this vehicle has a drop head as I can't see the gangway buffing plate in shot.
After rereading some of the posts in this thread I'm starting to think that some of our words could be getting mixed up.
Roof lights, down the centre, that is what it is. I've not seen a photo showing this.
Side lights, roof lights down the side, these could be down one side or both (I'd go for both) Set in the middle of the roof panel.
Off set lights, I'd been taking this as the same as side lights, but when I think about it Brian could have been meaning off set to one end as
E96286E shows in the Parkin MK1 book but I'd still go for them down both sides. In Paul Bartlett's set of photos (link http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h9a2005#h9a2005 ) it shows E96286 been cut up and this shows the roof lights in the same position as in the Parkin book off set to one end of the roof panel.
OzzyO.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Edit to original post
[Subsequent to posting this comment I have had second thoughts about the content. A later post notes that I have probably made an error when interpreting the weathering of the body side - rather than remove this post I have decided to leave the post so that others can judge accordingly (that is, not to make the same mistake).]
Paul, you have show that there is always something new to be learnt, thank you.
Until now I had accepted the "handed-down wisdom" of others that there was a change in the build process such that the first few vehicles had roof lights offset to the right side of the panel (one light on each side of the vehicle, so two lights per panel) whilst the remainder of the build had roof lights on the centre line of a panel (two lights per panel). Further, that the change took place during build such that those built before a date were offset and those built after a date were central. Until today I was under the impression that the change was either with E96290 or E96291. At this point I feel worth saying that I have not found any indication that roof panels were replaced such that a vehicle built with offset lights received central lights during a works visit.
You have highlighted that either the perceived wisdom is wrong or that (some) vehicles received replacement roof panels after building.
The photo that you have referenced suggests that E96291 has offset lights... whereas a photo referenced by Mickoo shows that E96290 had central lights. There are two ways of reading this information:-
1/ the change in lights was not clean with respect to running numbers, that is, "90" was built with the later style of roof panels whilst "91" was built with the early light layout.
2/ the change took place after E96291 whilst E96290 has had at least one roof panel replaced subsequent to building.
I am stunned... I thought that I had a workable understanding and now I am not so sure.
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OzzyO
Western Thunderer
As the roof panels and the sides were of glass fibre it could have been the the roof lights towards the end of the panels were prone to cracking. I don't know!
The one thing that had always had me going was the refrance to the centre lights I'd always been thinking down the centre line of the vehicle not the centre line of the panels.
ATB
Mate.
The one thing that had always had me going was the refrance to the centre lights I'd always been thinking down the centre line of the vehicle not the centre line of the panels.
ATB
Mate.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Or then again... the photo of E96291 referenced above, maybe I have "read" the situation wrongly. The weathering of the side of the vehicle might be indicating a joint in the body panels and if that is so then the roof light is offset. On the other hand, if the weathering is down to a ripple in the panel, rather than a joint, then the roof light is central.
Woh is me.
Woh is me.
mth
Western Thunderer
OzzyO
Looking at the photo, i cant see any saddle storage or a chain.
I believe all GUV's when built had retractable buffers fitted but had the saddle fixed
2 photo's from my collection.
To me it looks like the GUV coupling is being used.
Re the Carcarrier's, If im reading this correct, as built 96286-89 had the roof lights offset to the right side of the body panel and 96290-99 the centre. In the photo's i've found they appear to have been ether, a:- platted over, b:-painted over or c:- covered in c*** over the years
.
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
Without a doubt the GUV's couplings in use. As Graham pointed out the end towards the GUV isn't sitting in the hook itself but from the hole further back. The GUV's were not fitted with saddles originally as the underframe, whilst based on the BR Standard series short version, wasn't built with the ability (unlike most Mk1 loco hauled stock) to take buffing loads either through the drawhook when the buckeye was in use or through the side buffers where a screw coupling was used, nor of course were they equipped with buffing plates. Like most "wagons" they were only designed to pull through the drawhook.
As built the GUV's used otherwise standard buffers and buffer housings however instead of having the removable saddle, were fitted from new with fixed collars to keep the standard buffer permanently in the extended "long" position and had an inverted U shaped bracket welded to the top of the housing to allow the bottom door to sit level when opened. The conversion to some of the GUV's in the 1980s was however made all the easier by them using the (almost)! standard underframe though they still required a fair amount of modification to the headstock and buffer beam to allow them to fit the additional buffing plates and drawhook needed for the drophead couplers - The buffers themselves only required the collar removed and replaced with the removable saddle....
As built the GUV's used otherwise standard buffers and buffer housings however instead of having the removable saddle, were fitted from new with fixed collars to keep the standard buffer permanently in the extended "long" position and had an inverted U shaped bracket welded to the top of the housing to allow the bottom door to sit level when opened. The conversion to some of the GUV's in the 1980s was however made all the easier by them using the (almost)! standard underframe though they still required a fair amount of modification to the headstock and buffer beam to allow them to fit the additional buffing plates and drawhook needed for the drophead couplers - The buffers themselves only required the collar removed and replaced with the removable saddle....
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
over on the other side it was mentioned about these photos, all photo the copyright remains with the owner and are only used for information .
One in maroon showing roof lights on both sides looking to be in the centre of the roof panels.
A photo showing six in one train.
Ex-works, they look a bit odd having the roofs blue, you can just make out on the one on the left that the roof light is offset to the right of the panel and the one on the right has it in the centre of the panel,
The last two photos were taken at Perth in 1967.
I keep wounding what the two "white" flashes on the end donate?
OzzyO.
over on the other side it was mentioned about these photos, all photo the copyright remains with the owner and are only used for information .
One in maroon showing roof lights on both sides looking to be in the centre of the roof panels.
A photo showing six in one train.
Ex-works, they look a bit odd having the roofs blue, you can just make out on the one on the left that the roof light is offset to the right of the panel and the one on the right has it in the centre of the panel,
The last two photos were taken at Perth in 1967.
I keep wounding what the two "white" flashes on the end donate?
OzzyO.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
The white flashes are associated with UIC registered vehicles and are just a corner marker. They make it easy to see where the corner of the vehicle is with reference to the 'mushroom*' marker in the track.
*Sorry, don't know what the UK term is as I don't think we have them over here. They're markers which show the point at which corners of vehicles are clear of each other, used at points and crossings. Oh and they look like a mushroom, painted red and white...
*Sorry, don't know what the UK term is as I don't think we have them over here. They're markers which show the point at which corners of vehicles are clear of each other, used at points and crossings. Oh and they look like a mushroom, painted red and white...
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
is that a bit of Stephism creeping in there LOL
I believe they are called gauge clearance markers or overhang clearance markers, we have some down here but less sophisticated, an orange painted wooden 2×2" stake in the ground.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Naw Mick,
There's a lot of Stephism in that one
Thanks for the clarification.
Steph
There's a lot of Stephism in that one
Thanks for the clarification.
Steph
Brian Daniels
Western Thunderer
Nice pictures Ozzyo but I am not painting mine with all that blue on it, that would look wierd on a model. Just get on with the weathering after Bristol I think.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Now I was thinking that the clean one looked very attractive with the blue roof and the blue well.
What was a surprise to me was how much colour is apparent in the photo at Perth 1967... red for the backing to the lever under the solebar and yellow for the axleboxes.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
All roller bearing axleboxes were painted yellow if I recall correctly.
I may hazard a guess at the red-backed lever being the empty/loaded brake selection.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I got a message from one of my mates about the end marking on the newton Chambers vehicles and it makes interesting reading on the two white marks. It's section 2 starting on page 2 subsection e on page 3. This link should take you to it; http://blainestrains.org/pdfs/RIV2.pdf
Although this document is dated 1985 (last page), I'm inclined to think that these marks are more to do with the brakes than corner markers. It would be good if we could find the same sort of document for about 1960 or so.
Thanks for the pointer Chris.
I got a message from one of my mates about the end marking on the newton Chambers vehicles and it makes interesting reading on the two white marks. It's section 2 starting on page 2 subsection e on page 3. This link should take you to it; http://blainestrains.org/pdfs/RIV2.pdf
Although this document is dated 1985 (last page), I'm inclined to think that these marks are more to do with the brakes than corner markers. It would be good if we could find the same sort of document for about 1960 or so.
Thanks for the pointer Chris.
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Wow, I want, I want! Cracking job 
Richard Spoors
Western Thunderer
Just for those who like the ECML with A4's, here's the weekday up Anglo Scottish car carrier in May 1963 departing Newcastle central station on time at 1.30pm. I was at school in Newcastle and could only leave in my lunch break with a signed "Exeat" form. Happy days!