Small and Whacky

[Dog Star]

The scenario of negative clearance between wheel boss and inner face of outside frames crops up when utilising Slater's diesel wheels with S7 axles for some of the JLTRT diesels (for example:- Class 37... Class 50). Mr. Paul Penn-Sayers (Locomodels) has re-profiled some wheels for us and found, by experiment, that the wheel boss can be reduced to the same plane as a the front face of a re-profiled tyre (within a gnat's whats-it). OK, the countersink in the boss needed attention... and similarly for the axle end... and the tapped hole was deepened.

I recollect Paul saying that the task was one which required a cool head and a steady hand.

regards, Graham

 

[daifly]

I recollect Paul saying that the task was one which required a cool head and a steady hand.

Thanks, Graham. Paul is no mean engineer so if he needs those attributes, there's little hope for us bodgers. I hope to play around with the Peartree wheels later and will report back.

 

[mickoo]

Luckily for me, the wheel size required is 3' 1", so a wagon wheel works for me. I'm coming round to the Peartree wheel solution above. They do 3-hole 3'1" wagon wheels and 3'7" plain disc and Mansell S7 wheels here if that helps you at all.

They look nice, sadly I need 4' 2" which they do not do in scale 7 but they do them in fine scale, problem there will be sourcing longer axles and they are outside bearings which for me will present problems with the envisaged CSB system, they also have no indication as to the axle size either?

As an aside Slaters only do 4' 3" disc wheels for eight wheel tenders but also quote them as use for Class 76, unfortunately Class 76 have spoked wheels as did some of the AC electrics.

What ever option I choose it'll have to do for the DA Jubilee and Princess and Finney A4

 

[daifly]

There is a large number of rivets to be formed and for that I used my GW Models rivetter. In anticipation of needing to use it, a couple of weeks ago I mounted it on a lump of 18mm ply to give it stability and allow it to be clamped if necessary. But where were all of the extra anvils and punches that it came with.

The inevitable happened this aftrernoon whilst searching for my taper reamer - the errant anvils/punches were found hiding beneath some packs of piercing saw blades. Bother!

 

[Pugsley]

Thanks, Graham. Paul is no mean engineer so if he needs those attributes, there's little hope for us bodgers. I hope to play around with the Peartree wheels later and will report back.

If you're not feeling that brave, or skilled, you can also mill the boss down to within a gnats doo-dah. As a serial bodger, this is the route that I took.



I didn't have to worry about the countersink as I was pressing the wheels onto the extended axles, I guess that could be attended to beforehand.

 

[OzzyO]

Luckily for me, the wheel size required is 3' 1", so a wagon wheel works for me. I'm coming round to the Peartree wheel solution above. They do 3-hole 3'1" wagon wheels and 3'7" plain disc and Mansell S7 wheels here if that helps you at all.

I'm replying to this message as I'm reading it (before I read any of the later replies so sorry if any of this is covered), lets see you model in S7 because you want the better look? So why would he/she want to use a 3'7" wheel when the wheel should be approx. 4'2" (if you wanted to use Peartree wheels he does a 4'2" wheel in 7mm so why not ask to see if he would turn a set up?)

I also thought that the S7 people keep to the true size of the prototype, as this is part of your game. I do know that you will have to make allowances for our tight curves by using gauge widening of the track. As a 6' Rad. curve is a bit tight in 7OF. for a main line.

Going back to your loco, turn the wheel bosses down to the same as the wheel rims and then counter sink the axle ends a bit so that the 6BA screws will still hold the wheels in place.

OzzyO.

 

[OzzyO]

As an aside Slaters only do 4' 3" disc wheels for eight wheel tenders but also quote them as use for Class 76, unfortunately Class 76 have spoked wheels as did some of the AC electrics.

What ever option I choose it'll have to do for the DA Jubilee and Princess and Finney A4

Don't forget that some of the LNER 8 wheeled tenders had spoked wheels as well.



Jub and Princess tender wheels Ref. No. 7851ST if you want the 5/32" axle add MF

LNER tender wheels (disc) 7851g if you want the 5/32" axles add MF.

OzzyO.

PS. I'm building a Lizzy and the only driving wheels that I can get have one to many spokes (and guess where they come from?).

 

[Heather Kay]

PS. I'm building a Lizzy and the only driving wheels that I can get have one to many spokes (and guess where they come from?).

That is a long-running saga. I'm not sure why that company refuses to recognise the error, despite being told over and over again. Ah well.

 

[mickoo]

Don't forget that some of the LNER 8 wheeled tenders had spoked wheels as well.

OzzyO.

PS. I'm building a Lizzy and the only driving wheels that I can get have one to many spokes (and guess where they come from?).

Indeed they did, only a hand full if my memory seves me right, and in some cases a mixed and matched set were seen and I 'think' many were swapped out by BR days.

The issue with Slaters is that the description is a 'disc' (my highlight) wheel for LNER 8 wheel tenders and class 76, correct for the former, wrong for the latter, a class 76 uses the LNER spoked variant.

Like wise, my Princess as just about everyone else who's ever built one, will be fitted with those wheels, theres also an issue with the ones for the Fowler 4P which has webs around the crank spokes, I've gone through all my LMS books and not yet found one photo of that loco with webbed spokes, or even that wheel size with webbed spokes, I did ask Slaters if they could point me to the prototype loco they are fitted to....I might want to model it....but as yet I've had no reply

Sorry for the diversion Dave, I know what you mean about missing tools, I hate loosing things, I find if I tidy up my bench, that's it they're gone forever LOL, or I'll idle muse...where did so and so go as I'm working, I don't need so and so right there but that's it, everything has to stop until I find said item

Pugsey, that's a neat idea, I didn't think of milling the face, I do need to get a milling machine and have my eye on the Proxxon, expensive and perhaps a little small for some of the stuff I do but all the other Proxxon tools I have are very nice to use

 

[richard carr]

Mick

Reducing the boss of the wheel to be flat with tyre is the easy bit whether it is milled or turned down in a lathe, the tricky bit is deepening the countersink, you need to be careful here as it is easy to go too far and ruin the wheel for a square ended axle. You can still rescue them for for a screw in axle.

Rob Thomson is selling some very nice S7 37 wheels but you do need to put them on their axles.

Richard

 

[OzzyO]

Pugsey, that's a neat idea, I didn't think of milling the face, I do need to get a milling machine and have my eye on the Proxxon, expensive and perhaps a little small for some of the stuff I do but all the other Proxxon tools I have are very nice to use

Mickoo,

don't buy a small milling M/C that might just do, add an extra £100 and get one a bit too big for what you want now. It is easer to do a small job on a big M/C than a large job on a small M/C.

OzzyO with his time served milling M/C operator head on.

PS. these two look OK. But then you have to start looking at all of the toys that go with them!

 

[daifly]

If you're not feeling that brave, or skilled, you can also mill the boss down to within a gnats doo-dah. As a serial bodger, this is the route that I took.

I didn't have to worry about the countersink as I was pressing the wheels onto the extended axles, I guess that could be attended to beforehand.

Thanks for that suggestion, Pugsley. I have a box of old, odd Slater's drivers to have a sacrificial practice on before I commit to doing the S7 wheels.