Tinned Copper Wire

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

In our ongoing pursuit for getting the layout finished I was looking, along, with other issues related to track and DCC etc., to use, tinned copper wire to use as 'droppers' to connect with a copper tape BUS bar for certain 'awkward' parts of the layout.

I thought that tinned copper wire would be an old fashioned hard to purchase 'only two sizes available guv' type thing, so when I Googled such there was loadsa the stuff .

My question is how does the quoted SWG sizing relate to AMPS?

Eg. We plan to use our Digitrax Super Chief 5amp system, so need to ensure that the wiring can cope with Heljan locos, kit built locos running I would guesstimate 3-5amps/decoders etc. (or I suppose, multiples thereof if two locos running double heading/banking etc.).

Or should I just get hold of some copper earth wire and make my own up? :scratch:

Any ideas?

Thanks in anticipation.

ATVB

CME :wave:

 

[Old Buffer]

Not done it myself but a friend used cooker cable, he stripped the insulation off, tinned a strand at a time, about 3" in length, soldered each piece to the underside of the rails then used it as a dropper through the baseboards, cut to length and soldered to his buzz cabling. He did this for each length of track, thereby eliminating the problem that is sometimes caused by track joiners.
Hope this helps.
Alan

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Not done it myself but a friend used cooker cable, he stripped the insulation off, tinned a strand at a time, about 3" in length, soldered each piece to the underside of the rails then used it as a dropper through the baseboards, cut to length and soldered to his buzz cabling. He did this for each length of track, thereby eliminating the problem that is sometimes caused by track joiners.
Hope this helps.
Alan

Hi Alan :wave:

Thanks for the tip.

We have opted, for the garden section, not to use jumper cables over the rail joints, as the BUS is a preferred option. When using nickel silver 'fishplates' on un-powered track they seem to last for years, yet on powered track, they seem to wear out/burn out, so cant be relied upon.

ATB

CME :wave:

 

[Steph Dale]

Well, 5 amp fusewire (which is, after all what we're talking about here) is very fine stuff - you'd find it pretty hard to thread down (or up) a hole in a baseboard.

I'd suggest something in the region of 26swg (0.5mm diameter, roughly) would work well as a dropper - it's what I use for that job and also for fiddling wheels for split axles. It'll be simple enough to solder and can be poked through a baseboard...

Steph

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Well, 5 amp fusewire (which is, after all what we're talking about here) is very fine stuff - you'd find it pretty hard to thread down (or up) a hole in a baseboard.

I'd suggest something in the region of 26swg (0.5mm diameter, roughly) would work well as a dropper - it's what I use for that job and also for fiddling wheels for split axles. It'll be simple enough to solder and can be poked through a baseboard...

Steph

Hi Steph :wave:

Thanks for the helpful reply

Yes what you have mentioned is - was - all part of the dilemma.

I thought that fuse-wire was in effect the 'same difference' :scratch: - thanks for confirming such though.

Yet just to clarify, because of the different heights in the garden and thus endeavouring to keep most basebaords level (and access to the underside of the boards etc.), and after much puzzling, I thought that it may be better to use a heavy duty self adhesive copper tape used on/for RT/Mobile Phone Masts etc. for the BUS and mount such on top of certain boards (or on all), then (we had tried to avoid this) ballast the trackwork so as to hide the copper tape.

The advantages of this system are no need to drill the baseboards - and possible water ingress - being able to work from the top of the boards (ease of soldering etc.) etc. etc.... This means that the 'droppers' only need to be bent to shape and go from track to tape rather than through the boards.

So in effect the TCW need to be able to carry the amps, be strong enough to cope with being outdoors/corrosion etc., be flexible and mildy aesthetic/thin enough not to be too noticable. Am I asking too much? :scratch: 

I like the fact that fuse wire/tinned copper wire is easy to bend and use - I am now having a few doubts bout using such outdoors/its longevity

The disadvange is ballasting etc. I have been assured that the tape will stick easily to the mineralised roofing felt used on the top of the boards - and that the bond increases the longer that the tape is down....

Thanks again.

ATB

CME :wave:

 

[iploffy]

Matey be carefull when using thin copper,  wire use something a bit more meaty like 2.5 mm T+E stripped back to the copper wire as this will never break. fuse wire will flex and in time work harden and then you will end up with dead section a devil to find when the feed has broken and you have covered it over with ballast.

 

[marsa69]

Here's a long shot. What about the anti-snail copper tape that garden centres now sell? It's supposed to be designed for outdoor use it's just a case of would it be up to the job electrically?

Mark

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Matey be carefull when using thin copper,  wire use something a bit more meaty like 2.5 mm T+E stripped back to the copper wire as this will never break. fuse wire will flex and in time work harden and then you will end up with dead section a devil to find when the feed has broken and you have covered it over with ballast.

Hi Ian :wave:

Many thanks, I had a bit of a feeling that something like that may lurk (for garden rly usage) with tinned copper wire.

Thanks 

ATVB

CME :wave:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Here's a long shot. What about the anti-snail copper tape that garden centres now sell? It's supposed to be designed for outdoor use it's just a case of would it be up to the job electrically?

Mark

Hi Mark :wave:

Thanks - that maybe a goer, yet ZTC (just checking with them again - awaiting an email reply), state that their's is industrial strength with different coatings etc. (the self adhesive makes a better bond with age and goes round corners well too ).

Every aspect of this layout - and moving up to 7mm - has challenged us/me, I just hope that it is all worth it in the long run.

Thanks again

ATB

CME :wave:

 

[iploffy]

Oh it will be worth it, the only thing is that with the preparation time and the weather by the time the track has had a clean it might be raining . But seriously, hopefully I intend to spend all day Saturday in the garden hopefully with my volunteers doing the final bit of woodworking, felting and laying the final pieces of track finish constructing the lift out section and then if the midnight bell has not tolled run summat round the whole garden. the track will ride like a tramway but I should at least get it running

Ian

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Oh it will be worth it, the only thing is that with the preparation time and the weather by the time the track has had a clean it might be raining . But seriously, hopefully I intend to spend all day Saturday in the garden hopefully with my volunteers doing the final bit of woodworking, felting and laying the final pieces of track finish constructing the lift out section and then if the midnight bell has not tolled run summat round the whole garden. the track will ride like a tramway but I should at least get it running

Ian

Hi Ian :wave:

Good for you - sounds great

Down Ampney has two lift-out sections, still yet to puzzle how to wire such and keep connectors clean when bridges are packed away when not in use etc.... :scratch:

I keep thinking of 2002 when dad started his H&BLR one sunny - and very warm - week in March at that. Baseboards up in a week and track in two weeks and thus running in three. Of course being SM32 there was no need for trackpower (and we still havnt electrified point motors yet! ) lots of test running a fun, then we clad the viaduct and bridges later adding detail as we went (the garden was nigh on perfectly flat which helped . I cant help but feel that we have neglected the H&BLR in favour of Down Ampney - which is a shame as the H&BLR is ripe for a line extension etc. and I am begining to wonder why, muggins here, chose to model in 7mm! :scratch:

ATVB

CME :wave:

 

[iploffy]

To add to your query, two ways either by using a waterproof plug very expensive the best type to use would be a self sealing military type (used for trailers and generators ) or loop the wires under the path and then bridge out the lift out section using brass tubes AKA Phill Dyson's sector table both methods work Phill's  having an added bonus that it also lines up the ends of the rails as well!!!!!!!!! 

 

[Simon]

To add to your query, two ways either by using a waterproof plug very expensive the best type to use would be a self sealing military type (used for trailers and generators ) or loop the wires under the path and then bridge out the lift out section using brass tubes AKA Phill Dyson's sector table both methods work Phill's  having an added bonus that it also lines up the ends of the rails as well!!!!!!!!!

Good to hear you're about to have a tracklaying session on your line. I look forward to the pictures of Brush type 4 hauled engineers trains trundling off to Bescot in the wee small hours as they give up the possession - make sure you photograph 'em!

Steve Cook has given me one of those posh military connector jobbies for my lift out bridge, but needless to say I haven't got around to using it yet :-[

Instead I am using wires connected by normal "chocolate block" connectors and confirm that contrary to plated finish and expectations of brassery they rust extremely effectively!

 

[Old Buffer]

For joiners, why not use the aluminium 7 pin plugs and sockets from Halfords etc. When making them up use copper grease on the internal and external connections, or the other alternative is to use vasalene. As a retired motor mechanic we used to do it this way all the time and never had any problems.
Hope this helps.
Alan

 

[alcazar]

Have a look here:  http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... inwall.php

This stuff is sold for modern cars.
0.5 mm sq can carry 11A, while 1 mm sq is rated at 16.5A and 2mm sq at 25A.

Should ALL be enough for our purposes?

 

[Old Buffer]

Another sauce for cable and 7 pin sockets/plugs are motor factors, worth getting quotes.
Alan