Dapol Turbot Wagons Converting to S7

richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
The Dapol Turbot wagons have finally arrived.

20200806_102643.jpg

They look gorgeous if you ask me, and for an early 1980's layout like mine you can treat them as being brand new if you want as that was when they were converted from coil carriers.

20200806_102646.jpg

So for the S7 modeller the big question is, can this convert easily.

The answer sadly is NO !!!!!

Here's the view underneath the model

20200806_102729.jpg

There is lots of great brake detail and the bogie sides look good but the bogie only measures 49mm over the outside of the frames, when it should be more like 58mm and the edge of the frames should line up with the edge of the body the gray moulding in this picture.
So if you want to convert these to S7 you will need to widen the bogie as there is just not enough room to squeeze an S7 wheel between the bogie frames as they are now.

Another job I didn't really want.

Here's a link to one of Paul Bartletts photos of a real one, you can really see how wide the bogies should be.

BR Turbot Ballast open YCV YCW

Richard
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Oh dear, yet another close but not quite design. There is one photo is Paul's collection which highlights the relationship between bogie solebar and underframe... look for a photo of wagon DB978002 at Exeter, 26/07/1982.

So what is the plan? From what you have written it seems to me that the path to useability goes something like this:-

1/ remove bogie from model;
2/ remove wheels from bogie;
3/ separate frames from bolster (look to see if frames are separate moulding to bolster);
4/ widen bolster or widen frames?
5/ find a suitable axle / wheelset;
6/ remake brake block/hanger and yokes;
7/ re-assembly.

Peter has some... their conversion is a low priority at this time so I shall follow your lead!

regards, Graham
 
AJC

AJC

Western Thunderer
Interesting to see that this issue has been included (I think it's a feature o the 4mm version, too - quite a common RTR screw up; both the Oxford and Hattons Warwells have bogies that are too narrow) . In 4mm the stock approach would be to produce a new bolster/subframe and to use the very nicely moulded plastic ones cosmetically. Time for an etch (which could easily serve for both FS and S7 because the width over frames is just as wrong in both)? The kind of thing that Justin Newitt of Rumney Models could be persuaded to do perhaps?

Adam
 
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richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
So this morning I set about doing a simple conversion by using some plastic card to widen the bolster.

Here's the bogie


20200806_115946_HDR.jpg 20200806_120109_HDR.jpg

20200806_120908_HDR.jpg

The screw onto the bolster and hold the 2 springs in place under compression, the brakes clip into the side frames. The axles supplied are not long enough to be of any use if you widen the bogie either for FS of S7.

So I cut the bolster into 3 pieces and glued them back together with some plastic card spacers using some 3.2mm wide square plastic card. I also added a piece of plastic card along one side of the bolster to add some strength, everything was bonded with butanone (MEK), once it has dried this is reasonably strong.

20200808_134745_HDR.jpg

It is quick and dirty and you lose the break blocks etc but I can live with that. I have used slaters wheels running in the original plastic bearing in the frame, this gives a frame that is 6mm wider than the original, you cannot go any wider with this method as the slaters wheels would need a longer axle if you did. It is certainly is an improvement but should probably be 2mm wider still. I would love to find a proper drawing for this bogie tosee exactly how wide it really is.

This is how it looks on the wagon compared to the original.

20200808_134704.jpg


The widened one just in case you can't tell

20200808_134721.jpg


An unconverted wagon

20200808_134730.jpg

It really wants a replacement bolster that is 3D printed and of course the longer axle for the wheels.

The best thing would have been for Dapol to get it right in the first place, I really can't see why they can't !


Richard
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Seems to me that we need to see a prototype drawing so as to understand the bogie frame thickness and the placement of the bearings relative to the front face of that frame (or put another way, does the prototype bogie have a typical length axle?).

regards, Graham
 
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Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Richard,

That's much better. Even as a finescale modeller, I'd be frustrated by your findings; it's flippin' obvious that the frames are too close to the wheels...

As with US-outline in P48, it'd be a relatively simple job to solve with some 3D prints, just another item to add to the cost of the wagon, and one that should have been avoidable.

Steph
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
How long will it take for RTR manufactures to realise that there would be an increase in their market with S7, I've seen an increasing interest in RTR from the S7 guys, not all want to build loco's and stock but they want the fidelity in there track and gauge.
It doesn't take much for models to be produced to take either type of wheel set as Richard has pointed out.
Some kit producers are doing it so why not them.....deafness or defiance !

Nice simple cure Richard, I'm sure you'll be able to stretch the brake cross members as well.

Col.
 
G

George Morris

New Member
I have been looking at 5g3m and thinking expensive . And now I don’t need them after all many thanks !!!! Shame missed opportunity. As not even actually near enough
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
Hi Richard

how did you find removing the safety bar from below the bogie retaining screw? I need to do that exercise to remove the bogie to replace a defective coupling and it looks very fragile, is it a push fit or glued into position?

regards

Mike
 
richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Mike

It is a push fit with a bit of glue so gently pull it out and it should come out, but one of mine broke, but you take a chance with any of this.

Richard
 
richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
I've been thinking about this while out walking the dogs, so this is the fold up etch that I have come up with


upload_2020-8-18_18-16-24.png

The idea is that the existing bolster sits on top of this after you have cut off the sides about half way along the bolster. I will add some holes in side supports so the central part of the bolster can be screwed into this.
The axles supports are inside bearings for 1/8th diameter axles, so slaters or Peartree could be used.

The bogie sides and the other half of the existing bolster sit inside the red part here and rest against the edge of it to give the correct spacing over the outside face of 57mm. You would need to get some 1/8th axle bearings but there are plenty of suppliers as they are 4mm loco axle bearings.

It should be quite quick and easy to make up. I should hopefully get a drawing off to PPD by the end of the week.

Richard
 

Attachments

  • turbot bogie.pdf
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mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Looks like an ASF (American Steel Foundry) bogie.

YKA xxxx_05.JPG

HMRS has a drawing which can be purchased, https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings/a-s-f-ride-control-truck-salmon-wagons-bogie.html

The internet....as yet....does not reveal a free drawing, which is unusual as you can get basic overviews of a vast amount of modern (relative) bogies.

Note, the same bogie suits several vehicles worldwide and varying tonnages, the primary spring 'nests' are adjusted accordingly, a full blown heavyweight can have seven springs each side as noted in the HMRS drawing. The image above has four per side as does the Turbot but laid out slightly differently.

Sadly modern Freightliner wagons do not ride on ASF (not that I have a record of) or else I'd sneak on the terminal and measure one, Y25's we have a plenty, ASF we do not.
 
richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick

One drawing ordered, so the final drawing for the etch will have to wait until it turns up, but at least I will have the correct dimensions.

They will of course be using this on the Bogie Bolster E that shouldn't be too far away.

Richard
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Adam, UK wagons are the thinnest of thin ends of any wedge in my interest profile :p

Y'all lucky I got the correct number of axles :eek:

To be honest, the overall width is probably not going to change much among the many cast truck manufacturers, there is a limit to how far you can push physics 'in general terms'.

I think the ASF drawing is probably close enough for 'government' work.
 
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