Ian Rathbone's Workshop

[Solebay]

I spent a couple of hours at a G scale garden railway yesterday (literally just around the corner), so I was finally able to photograph a steam tram engine that I lined out over a year ago. A Roundhouse model that comes in plain green is much improved by some simple lining in red and black.

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Also finished is Martin Finney’s last coach build, an LSWR Dining Saloon, built from his own kit. It is sitting on borrowed bogies as there were no wheels included in the parts I received. (And the roof is not screwed down).

View attachment 259673


Ian R

Your work is superb. But I am interested in the shade used for the upper panels of the Dining Saloon. Looking at models and preserved vehicles, there seems to be quite a spectrum of colours used. The dining saloon --- and the other models on Semley --- are definitely at the darker end of that range. What was the source of the shade used?

 

[Ian Rathbone]

Hello Ian, I've just been reading an article in the May 1979 issue of Model Railways Magazine, "Have gun - will use it", by Jim Whittaker, about various aspects of painting models. Amongst other techniques he covers using a gas oven - set as low as possible without the flames going out - to dry the paint (he mentions the models getting sufficiently hot during their 12-15 minute drying time - oven door closed - to be only just hand-holdable). He says this hardens the paint (oil based, turps thinned) sufficiently to allow safe handling in 15 minutes, with a finish so durable that masking tape - left on during the oven drying - can be easily and safely removed every time and chipping or removal is very difficult.
I couldn't see any mention of oven drying in your book (please excuse me if it's in there and I missed it!) so I wondered if you've ever done it and/or whether you have any thoughts about it, and about the ways it might affect paint?

Thank you, Chas

Hello Chas, no, I’ve never used heat to dry/cure paint. My workload has always meant that when I have finished spraying an item there is always something else to continue with while the sprayed item is drying. I generally work on a 24 hour cycle, even with cellulose paints. I am presently working on three GWR coaches which, having four colours per side, are going to take eight days. I just fill the gaps with other work, or gardening. In this hobby patience is not just a virtue but a necessity.

Provided the item has been properly cleaned and primed paint will stick to it, and when that paint has cured then masking tape will not harm it. I do put enamelled items on the central heating boiler overnight in the winter, but that is hardly stove enamelling! There’s no reason why you shouldn’t try the heating method but try it on something of little value that does have low melt solder or delicate white metal parts.

Cheers

Ian R

 

[Chas Levin]

Hello Chas, no, I’ve never used heat to dry/cure paint. My workload has always meant that when I have finished spraying an item there is always something else to continue with while the sprayed item is drying. I generally work on a 24 hour cycle, even with cellulose paints. I am presently working on three GWR coaches which, having four colours per side, are going to take eight days. I just fill the gaps with other work, or gardening. In this hobby patience is not just a virtue but a necessity.

Provided the item has been properly cleaned and primed paint will stick to it, and when that paint has cured then masking tape will not harm it. I do put enamelled items on the central heating boiler overnight in the winter, but that is hardly stove enamelling! There’s no reason why you shouldn’t try the heating method but try it on something of little value that does have low melt solder or delicate white metal parts.

Cheers

Ian R

Thanks Ian, sound advice. I too tend to get on with other jobs while things cure and I wouldn't have thought heated drying would be a great idea, but Mr Whittaker is very passionate about it so I thought I'd ask.
Apart from anything else, I'd be very nervous of over heating a model, especially with the over door closed...
I guess things were different in the 1970s!

 

[Ian Rathbone]

Your work is superb. But I am interested in the shade used for the upper panels of the Dining Saloon. Looking at models and preserved vehicles, there seems to be quite a spectrum of colours used. The dining saloon --- and the other models on Semley --- are definitely at the darker end of that range. What was the source of the shade used?

I’m afraid my answer won’t provide a solution. When I first painted a coach for Martin he provided another Semley coach for me to match, so I went from there. LSWR ‘Salmon’ is a bit of a misnomer as it is more of a Tan than a Pink. The salmon probably comes from the use of brown and pink lining which increases the apparent ‘pinkiness’ of the colour. I have a couple of photos of a preserved coach in the NRM but these show a variety of hues due to the lighting. I also have an ancient can of Cherry Paints ‘Salmon’ which to my mind is too pink. I finally matched the colour by mixing Humbrol No. 9 Tan with No. 41 Ivory on a palette, but that’s not the whole story because my can of Tan has a mustard spoon of H19 Gloss Red mixed in, so I can use it for orange lining on locos.

Why the Semley coaches are that colour I can’t answer, but the colour I used was a pretty good match.

Sorry

Ian R

 

[Solebay]

I’m afraid my answer won’t provide a solution. When I first painted a coach for Martin he provided another Semley coach for me to match, so I went from there. LSWR ‘Salmon’ is a bit of a misnomer as it is more of a Tan than a Pink. The salmon probably comes from the use of brown and pink lining which increases the apparent ‘pinkiness’ of the colour. I have a couple of photos of a preserved coach in the NRM but these show a variety of hues due to the lighting. I also have an ancient can of Cherry Paints ‘Salmon’ which to my mind is too pink. I finally matched the colour by mixing Humbrol No. 9 Tan with No. 41 Ivory on a palette, but that’s not the whole story because my can of Tan has a mustard spoon of H19 Gloss Red mixed in, so I can use it for orange lining on locos.

Why the Semley coaches are that colour I can’t answer, but the colour I used was a pretty good match.

Sorry

Ian R

Thanks for that, Ian.

Of the brake composite in the NRM, the Southern Railway email Group says: "... the coach is displayed with its SR number but in LSWR livery, the rendition of which is thought by LSWR experts to be inaccurate - the pink being too dark and the brown too light with both being a shade too red."

The brake third on the Bluebell Railway, and other preserved examples like Stately Trains Saloon no. 17 are a much lighter shade.

Then again, the NRM has a wonderful contemporary model:

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co489466/model-railway-carriage-3rd-class-smoking-compartment

which looks more believable than the pink coaches in preservation. But then it's entirely possible that the paint/varnish has darkened considerably over the past 125 years.

So really, who knows?

 

[76043]

So really, who knows?

Sounds just like the recent GE blue article in the GERS journal. Nobody really knows, so just live with it.
Tony