Hop on a bus
- Thread starter Peter Insole
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- 7mm road vehicles
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Hi Andy
The letters on the left hand hand side is the garage code to which the vehicle was allocated. Initially these were removable stencils but later the garage code was painted on. The right hand stencil, as John says, is the duty/diagram number allocated to that bus.
These were carried on all London buses up to recently and I don't think they are any more.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Nice photographs Peter, in the days when we had summers. Interesting not only from the bus but also the fashions, street furniture, vehicles etc.
I can only think she was at Aldenham at the time when I took my photograph in Edgware.
Talking of AEC Regents, this Bradford variant was one of the three preserved buses used for the shuttle service between Haworth station and village at the 1940's weekend earlier this year.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
That's a really nice example of an early 3RT3 that just happens to have retained an appropriate licence number as well! It is quite pleasing that the current owners have resisted the temptation to restore it to it's original London Transport livery.
I like the thinking; after all, if that particular bus hadn't been sold to a provincial operator it would have been scrapped many years ago. The same can applied to GWR pannier tanks in railway preservation, courtesy of London Transport!!
Pete.
I like the thinking; after all, if that particular bus hadn't been sold to a provincial operator it would have been scrapped many years ago. The same can applied to GWR pannier tanks in railway preservation, courtesy of London Transport!!
Pete.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Interestingly (or not, depending on your point of view) here's the history picked up from
IAN'S BUS STOP: RT
RT172 HLW 159 9/47 new, roofbox body 1421, Park Royal 3RT3
9/47 TC into service on 115, 130, 197 (Croydon)
repainted red, cream band
1954 used on 93
1/57 TC to Aldenham overhaul
1/57 RD from o/h, (Hornchurch), roofbox body 1418: Park Royal, 3RT3
3/58 RD withdrawn into store..
3/58 SW ..change store
3/58 ..sold to Birds (Stratford on Avon)
3/58 ..bought by Bradford Corporation, #410
10/68 withdrawn
11/68 bought for preservation: G.Rhodes, Birkenshaw
11/78 bought for preservation: J.Fozard, Baildon, W.Yorks
bought for preservation: Sutcliffe and Roskuss, W.Yorks
*/86 preserved: Bradford Corporation blue/cream
at West Yorkshire Transport Museum
4/01 preserved, St Helens
2008 preserved in museum, T.Leighton, Keighley
10/11 at Nocturnal Heart of the Pennines Rally, Halifax
I have to say that I had no idea that RTs were being withdrawn as early as 1958, as they continued in service, as a class, for years. Also, was the West Yorkshire Transport Museum mentioned above the late lamented (well, not very lamented actually) "Transperience" at Bradford? Steph and I went there when he was at Uni full of expectation having seen the wonderful collection crammed in at the tram depot in Bradford before that was demolished. It turned out to be a totally sterile experience - I seem to remember that the best they could do for the bus experience was a Leyland Atlantean, although I guess that, by now, they are quite a rarity. At that time they looked the same as any other bus. I seem to remember that there was a tram too, and that was from an Eastern European system so had no connection whatsoever with Bradford or Yorkshire. There were only one or two other visitors and, frankly, I was not too surprised to learn that it had closed after a few years.
But here's a question for the busophiles. What does the acronym RT stand for? And, for that matter RLH, RF, STL, T, TD etc etc? I actually don't know the answer, so this is not an opportunity to demonstrate any sort of superiority!!
Brian
IAN'S BUS STOP: RT
RT172 HLW 159 9/47 new, roofbox body 1421, Park Royal 3RT3
9/47 TC into service on 115, 130, 197 (Croydon)
repainted red, cream band
1954 used on 93
1/57 TC to Aldenham overhaul
1/57 RD from o/h, (Hornchurch), roofbox body 1418: Park Royal, 3RT3
3/58 RD withdrawn into store..
3/58 SW ..change store
3/58 ..sold to Birds (Stratford on Avon)
3/58 ..bought by Bradford Corporation, #410
10/68 withdrawn
11/68 bought for preservation: G.Rhodes, Birkenshaw
11/78 bought for preservation: J.Fozard, Baildon, W.Yorks
bought for preservation: Sutcliffe and Roskuss, W.Yorks
*/86 preserved: Bradford Corporation blue/cream
at West Yorkshire Transport Museum
4/01 preserved, St Helens
2008 preserved in museum, T.Leighton, Keighley
10/11 at Nocturnal Heart of the Pennines Rally, Halifax
I have to say that I had no idea that RTs were being withdrawn as early as 1958, as they continued in service, as a class, for years. Also, was the West Yorkshire Transport Museum mentioned above the late lamented (well, not very lamented actually) "Transperience" at Bradford? Steph and I went there when he was at Uni full of expectation having seen the wonderful collection crammed in at the tram depot in Bradford before that was demolished. It turned out to be a totally sterile experience - I seem to remember that the best they could do for the bus experience was a Leyland Atlantean, although I guess that, by now, they are quite a rarity. At that time they looked the same as any other bus. I seem to remember that there was a tram too, and that was from an Eastern European system so had no connection whatsoever with Bradford or Yorkshire. There were only one or two other visitors and, frankly, I was not too surprised to learn that it had closed after a few years.
But here's a question for the busophiles. What does the acronym RT stand for? And, for that matter RLH, RF, STL, T, TD etc etc? I actually don't know the answer, so this is not an opportunity to demonstrate any sort of superiority!!
Brian
David Varley
Western Thunderer
One and the same, I think, Brian - £11.5m for a museum that was open for two years. Most of the collection can now be found at Keighley Bus Museum - Home - Keighley Bus Museum Trust
David
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Brian, it does seem a bit mad, but LT were desperate to renew their massive and clapped out pre war fleet. So much so that they ended up getting as many companies building vehicles under sub contract as possible. Amongst many other factors, slow post war recovery and politics, suburban expansion not materialising at anticipated pre war levels and of coarse the new fangled idea of ordinary folks owning a motor car led to LT overestimating the numbers required! I think a number of RT's were delivered in 1953/4 and placed directly into storage, some not finally entering service until 1960/61!
As for the class designations, nobody really knows what RT, or any of the others actually mean either. There are an awful lot of theories rattling about out there!
Pete.
As for the class designations, nobody really knows what RT, or any of the others actually mean either. There are an awful lot of theories rattling about out there!
Pete.
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Also for transfers try Radley models,
Osgood
Western Thunderer
In case this is remotely of interest to others (I reckon it is probably the single most effective way to improve the Hachette bus, other than to replace the adverts), I give you:
Paint for your Routemaster indicates the paint coding policy of LT, and
ROOF leads to a current useable paint code.
So BS448 Deep Indian Red should do the job.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I've been researching long and hard for transfers for my Met Electric loco in London TransporT livery and can only get to what I want in two stages. First, buy the bus (trolleybus) London TransporT bodyside script from Fox. This is in the correct gold. Then buy the numbers from Radley. The Radley London TransporT is not correct being in yellow, although their numbers are right with the correct clipped tops and are sold as suitable for numbering the LT steam locos. To make the number 18 I needed the full set at £24.
This info came from Ron Harper who entered a very convincing Met electric loco in the modelling competeition at Guildex. These numbers may actually be good for LT trolleybuses too - I believe they are - but they are expensive so check their accuracy carefully before purchasing. Fox list trolleybus numbers in their catalogue.
Here's a section of a photo of "Sarah Siddons" which demonstrates the importance in character of getting the gold and yellow correct. Although this was taken after withdrawal and preservation the livery is correct.
This is the two sets of transfers. The difference between the gold of the Fox transfers and the yellow of the Radley ones may not be immediately obvious but will be by the time they are on the side of a loco! The cruel enlargement rather confirms it, I think.
Brian
This info came from Ron Harper who entered a very convincing Met electric loco in the modelling competeition at Guildex. These numbers may actually be good for LT trolleybuses too - I believe they are - but they are expensive so check their accuracy carefully before purchasing. Fox list trolleybus numbers in their catalogue.
Here's a section of a photo of "Sarah Siddons" which demonstrates the importance in character of getting the gold and yellow correct. Although this was taken after withdrawal and preservation the livery is correct.
This is the two sets of transfers. The difference between the gold of the Fox transfers and the yellow of the Radley ones may not be immediately obvious but will be by the time they are on the side of a loco! The cruel enlargement rather confirms it, I think.
Brian
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
For LT wheels I used Humbrol Matt 70 "Brick Red" on my Revell Routemaster. It is a bit on the light side, but very reasonably represents the slightly faded version! Satin varnish might even restore the balance, though I've not tried it!
Pete.
Pete.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Thanks for photographs of the decals for comparison.
Now Radley has produced an O scale RF perhaps they may produce the correct bus London TransporT fleet name, bus numbers and garage plates.
Did the Bo-Bo's have black edged numbering as It's not apparent from your photograph.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I believe that the Bo-Bos did, indeed, have black edged numbers but I can't find any photos to confirm that absolutely.
A trip to Covent Garden is in order, but when??????
B
A trip to Covent Garden is in order, but when??????
B
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Sorry Osgood, my memory is failing me!
Yesterday I was over at Love Lane painting yet more bricks, and opened a tin of... HUMBROL 113 "RUST"... and thought oops! That looks suspiciously more like the colour I used for LT bus wheels rather than number 70?!!
Pete.
Yesterday I was over at Love Lane painting yet more bricks, and opened a tin of... HUMBROL 113 "RUST"... and thought oops! That looks suspiciously more like the colour I used for LT bus wheels rather than number 70?!!
Pete.
AJC
Western Thunderer
Yes, I think you're right - which is as well, because it looks very unlike any sort of iron oxide to my eye at least. I suspect that the 'new', unfaded version of the colour would be fairly close to BR post-64 freight stock brown, a colour I rather like.
Adam
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I am also getting rather confused too! Maybe it's all down to the thinners fumes that I have been inhaling for the last few days?!
Sorry again Osgood for taking a while to answer your email. I was a bit puzzled to receive it via WT, with a note at the bottom saying "Do not reply to this email..."! I waited until yesterday and asked the guys for advice at Love Lane? They all shrugged their shoulders!
I have decided stick my neck out and post my answer here, for all to see!:
What do I think of the Sun Star RT model?
I would never make a good teacher as I am far too polite and find it extremely difficult to criticise any individual's efforts, but when it comes to commercially produced models can cheerfully heap scorn upon every error, however slight!
The problem for me with the Sun Star model (I would include their Routemaster and Bedford OB as well incidentally) is that it is beguilingly big, blousy, shiny and apparently beautifully detailed! It may have been well received, but then how often do reviewers, for whatever reason, rave cheerfully about almost every product presented to them?
I am happy to accept that there must always be compromise. Production and material problems should always be taken to account when making a fair judgement. I am one of those who are rarely satisfied with "Out of the box" and tend to immediately look at things to modify and improve!
This model, and it's previously mentioned forebears are so fundamentally flawed that I feel no amount of cutting, filing and filling can resurrect them! The issue for me is one of general proportions rather than mere detail. This seems to be a weakness of the company's designers. There are two points that are most infuriating;
One, The designers do not seem to have used or paid particular attention to any available engineering drawings. Even the most basic "general arrangements" published do not show similar mistakes! when Revell produced their RM, they appear to have assumed that the Sun Star model was accurate rather than the glorified toy that it is, and faithfully copied it whilst successfully piling on even more errors of their own making!
Two, Sun Star's research for their first 2RT2 release coincided with the Newman's (Ensign of Purfleet) restoration of "prewar" RT8. Mr. Steve Newman informed me (in his office) that he had an arrangement with the owners of RT113 to assist with his own project, but was also delighted to have been able to provide the Sun Star "chaps" with both perfectly appropriate vehicles for them to accurately measure and photograph and was much looking forward to their subsequent production!
I feel therefore Sun Star can have precious little excuse in getting it wrong in so many areas?
I could post photo's of the model to compare with the prototype, but as I was too disappointed to purchase one I can only provide internet images, and fear copyright issues in addition to the possibility of offending someone!!
Pete.
Sorry again Osgood for taking a while to answer your email. I was a bit puzzled to receive it via WT, with a note at the bottom saying "Do not reply to this email..."! I waited until yesterday and asked the guys for advice at Love Lane? They all shrugged their shoulders!
I have decided stick my neck out and post my answer here, for all to see!:
What do I think of the Sun Star RT model?
I would never make a good teacher as I am far too polite and find it extremely difficult to criticise any individual's efforts, but when it comes to commercially produced models can cheerfully heap scorn upon every error, however slight!
The problem for me with the Sun Star model (I would include their Routemaster and Bedford OB as well incidentally) is that it is beguilingly big, blousy, shiny and apparently beautifully detailed! It may have been well received, but then how often do reviewers, for whatever reason, rave cheerfully about almost every product presented to them?
I am happy to accept that there must always be compromise. Production and material problems should always be taken to account when making a fair judgement. I am one of those who are rarely satisfied with "Out of the box" and tend to immediately look at things to modify and improve!
This model, and it's previously mentioned forebears are so fundamentally flawed that I feel no amount of cutting, filing and filling can resurrect them! The issue for me is one of general proportions rather than mere detail. This seems to be a weakness of the company's designers. There are two points that are most infuriating;
One, The designers do not seem to have used or paid particular attention to any available engineering drawings. Even the most basic "general arrangements" published do not show similar mistakes! when Revell produced their RM, they appear to have assumed that the Sun Star model was accurate rather than the glorified toy that it is, and faithfully copied it whilst successfully piling on even more errors of their own making!
Two, Sun Star's research for their first 2RT2 release coincided with the Newman's (Ensign of Purfleet) restoration of "prewar" RT8. Mr. Steve Newman informed me (in his office) that he had an arrangement with the owners of RT113 to assist with his own project, but was also delighted to have been able to provide the Sun Star "chaps" with both perfectly appropriate vehicles for them to accurately measure and photograph and was much looking forward to their subsequent production!
I feel therefore Sun Star can have precious little excuse in getting it wrong in so many areas?
I could post photo's of the model to compare with the prototype, but as I was too disappointed to purchase one I can only provide internet images, and fear copyright issues in addition to the possibility of offending someone!!
Pete.
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Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Hi Adam, I am relieved that you are happy with the correction.
I will admit that I have not researched BR wagon colours, so should not comment! However, the description of "oxide" as the wheel colour could be misleading?
I always suspected that LT's original version of "Indian Red" had a rather more pinkish tinge to it.
I am slightly frustrated that I never got round to acquiring a genuine paint sample when I had more than enough opportunity, so am relying on a memory that has already been proven to be a bit unreliable!!
Pete.
I will admit that I have not researched BR wagon colours, so should not comment! However, the description of "oxide" as the wheel colour could be misleading?
I always suspected that LT's original version of "Indian Red" had a rather more pinkish tinge to it.
I am slightly frustrated that I never got round to acquiring a genuine paint sample when I had more than enough opportunity, so am relying on a memory that has already been proven to be a bit unreliable!!
Pete.