A British H0 Miscellany

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

I had a dabble in British HO over 20 years ago; this only surviving photo of some of my efforts makes an interesting comparison between an HO Roco 'Class 11' & Lima rolling stock, rewheeled with Roco wheels, & fitted with Kadee 'scale' #58 couplers, with a 4mm Lima 08 & Mainline wagons, all on 16.5mm gauge track......

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Back in the day I converted one of the Roco NS 500/600 shunters to a Bulleid Ashford 1949-51 built BR class 12 (15211-15236). Even re-wheeled with Alan Gibson Bullied wheels.

 

[Rob R]

My last loco to post here is a former BR class 11, this is from the Roco model of an English Electric shunter used on Dutch Railways.

View attachment 234867
Most of the modifications to the body involve removing unwanted detail.

View attachment 234862
One tool box is shortened.

View attachment 234865
I used the first coat of primer as a witness coat while hiding the worst of my changes.

View attachment 234866
The only new details are the handrails.

View attachment 234864
The wiring for the decoder rather spoils the look inside the cab. One day I might have another go but the pcb is always going to be visible. This decoder is another Lenz Standard V2.

View attachment 234863
I copied the livery from a photograph of a similar loco being unloaded at a preserved railway.

When I started in H0 I went for Kadee couplers. Then I realised the RTR stock with its NEM pockets on cams needed a rigid coupling to make the close-coupling work properly. So at the moment I have Kadees on the stock for the local preservation society, and Roco Universal ones on the stock for the revenue-earning railway. The Fleischmann close coupling heads create a slightly tighter gap between vehicles and I might end up going for these eventually.

Livery looks like an ex ICI loco, there were a few scattered around the various works in Northwich. Not sure if they were ex BR or new build for ICI.

 

[Richard Gawler]

I copied the livery from a photograph of a similar loco being unloaded at a preserved railway.

Livery looks like an ex ICI loco, there were a few scattered around the various works in Northwich. Not sure if they were ex BR or new build for ICI.

I tried to represent the livery of Day Aggregates as seen on loco 12049 on the Mid Hants. There are some photos on Flickr including this one:

https://flic.kr/p/7YAXom

Nowadays I think I could do a better job of the paint and there is still time to highlight things like the white handrails.

 

[Rob R]

I tried to represent the livery of Day Aggregates as seen on loco 12049 on the Mid Hants. There are some photos on Flickr including this one:

https://flic.kr/p/7YAXom

Nowadays I think I could do a better job of the paint and there is still time to highlight things like the white handrails.

Ahh.
I was thinking more along the lines of this (on the other side)
Oakleigh Sidings, Winnington, Northwich
Scroll 3/4 down the page...
Rob

 

[Richard Gawler]

https://flic.kr/p/imNfYe

Staying with the photo by John Stein at Oakleigh Sidings, this reminds me how the chevrons on private locomotives varied from the BR ones. Transfers were always a bugbear for my H0 efforts and I hardly ever applied any. I could try some 7mm scale ones for my class 11.

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

Transfers were always a bugbear for my H0 efforts

The British 1:87 Society did a 'wasp stripes' transfers set for the Roco EE Shunter. I used them & they were very good. It was a long time ago now, though, so no idea if they'd still be available.
I must have used them after I took the photo I posted above, though, which is sans stripes. It did look good in black with wasp stripes, though how prototypical that was I've no idea.

 

[Richard Gawler]

At least one class 11 similar-looking locomotive has appeared wearing black with wasp stripes - 12139 preserved at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. Looks good to me too:

https://flic.kr/p/Ydb2Bw

Edited for correctness.

 

[40057]

At least one class 11 has appeared wearing black with wasp stripes - 12139 preserved at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. Looks good to me too:

https://flic.kr/p/Ydb2Bw

The livery on the NYMR loco is fictitious. It was never a BR locomotive.

 

[Richard Gawler]

Yes a NYMR crest or totem or whatever instead of the BR one would be less likely to mislead people.

 

[Rob R]

The livery on the NYMR loco is fictitious. It was never a BR locomotive.

Is this the ex-ICI loco?

 

[40057]

Is this the ex-ICI loco?

I believe so. Dressed up as a BR class 11.

 

[Richard Gawler]

Is this the ex-ICI loco?

I believe so. Dressed up as a BR class 11.

Yes, from ICI. There are some notes on the provenance of the loco at the NYMR website:
BR Class 11 Shunter 0-6-0 No. 12139

The NYMR describe the locomotive as a "BR class 11", and that it was "privately built to BR class 11 specification". However, a cursory look at period photos shows that the toolboxes on the right-hand side of the Roco NS model are correct for a real class 11 (after you remove the hinge/catch detail); the toolboxes on this side of the ex-ICI loco "12139" are different.

I was mislead by the NYMR paint job and I have edited my post in case anyone reads this again one day.

 

[40057]

Yes, from ICI. There are some notes on the provenance of the loco at the NYMR website:
BR Class 11 Shunter 0-6-0 No. 12139

The NYMR describe the locomotive as a "BR class 11", and that it was "privately built to BR class 11 specification". However, a cursory look at period photos shows that the toolboxes on the right-hand side of the Roco NS model are correct for a real class 11 (after you remove the hinge/catch detail); the toolboxes on this side of the ex-ICI loco "12139" are different.

I was mislead by the NYMR paint job and I have edited my post in case anyone reads this again one day.

Well, maybe it was built to class 11 specification. Do you have a photo of this particular loco as built or whilst working for ICI? The toolboxes currently fitted to ‘12139’ look at first glance as though they come from an 08. Could they also be a post-preservation alteration?

I think it important to remember this is a working locomotive (usual duty: the shunter for Grosmont MPD). It is ‘preserved’ but really it is still ‘in service’ doing essentially the job it was designed for. Maintaining original appearance is not important, having a reliable loco fit for purpose is. Modifications/repairs will be made as necessary, as with any other locomotive in service.

Declaring an interest, I do a very small amount of volunteering for the NYMR and am a member.

 

[Richard Gawler]

Do you have a photo of this particular loco as built or whilst working for ICI?

Maybe, but probably not. The only book I have with clear photographs of similar BR shunters and their siblings is

MARSDEN C, "The Diesel Shunter, A Pictorial Record", Oxford 1981 (OPC)

None in there.

The best source I have for the Nederlandse Spoorwegen locos is the Dutch version of Wikipedia and I will make a guess, some of the detail there applies to what the NYMR calls their "privately built" loco:
NS 500 - Wikipedia

If the NS locos were built by English Electric (I don't entirely trust Wikipedia), I guess the former ICI loco "12139" was too.

This leaves us to find out whether EE customised the locos they built for customers in British industry; and how ICI and the NYMR may have altered this particular one!

I still think the Roco model is a good starting point for a model of a BR or ex-BR loco.

 

[Firehead]

Maybe, but probably not. The only book I have with clear photographs of similar BR shunters and their siblings is

MARSDEN C, "The Diesel Shunter, A Pictorial Record", Oxford 1981 (OPC)

None in there.

The best source I have for the Nederlandse Spoorwegen locos is the Dutch version of Wikipedia and I will make a guess, some of the detail there applies to what the NYMR calls their "privately built" loco:
NS 500 - Wikipedia

If the NS locos were built by English Electric (I don't entirely trust Wikipedia), I guess the former ICI loco "12139" was too.

This leaves us to find out whether EE customised the locos they built for customers in British industry; and how ICI and the NYMR may have altered this particular one!

I still think the Roco model is a good starting point for a model of a BR or ex-BR loco.

There is a photo of an ICI shunter (not necessarily the same one) on page 66 of 'Industrial Locomotives' (Mortons Media ISBN 978-1-911703-55-6). That makes reference to four being built at Dick Kerr works in Preston for ICI in Northwich in 1951.

Key differences to NYMR loco, no large boxes at front, different style of grilles, and a different cab (door frame is different and I think the windows are larger).

Yes the NS locos were built by English Electric, either at Dick Kerr, Preston or Vulcan Foundry. Link here to a preserved NS600 that was at Ribble Steam Railway English Electric VF2160/D350/1956 ‘663’ – Ribble Steam Railway

Edit: The ICI one in the book is closer in style to the preserved NS600.

 

[Richard Gawler]

Yes the NS locos were built by English Electric, either at Dick Kerr, Preston or Vulcan Foundry. Link here to a preserved NS600 that was at Ribble Steam Railway English Electric VF2160/D350/1956 ‘663’ – Ribble Steam Railway

Thanks @Firehead for the info and the link.

The Ribble Steam Railway claims, "The NS, 600 class is based on the British Railway’s class 08 shunting loco". If Marsden is correct, and I think he has researched his subject, these Dutch locos are closely related to the LMS locomotives built 1945 to 1952 which became BR class 11. The first 08 arrived in 1953. So, "The NS, 600 class is similar to the British Railway’s class 11 shunting loco, from which the later class 08 was derived". I'll wait awhile in case I am corrected here again, then write

 

[Overseer]

Thanks @Firehead for the info and the link.

The Ribble Steam Railway claims, "The NS, 600 class is based on the British Railway’s class 08 shunting loco". If Marsden is correct, and I think he has researched his subject, these Dutch locos are closely related to the LMS locomotives built 1945 to 1952 which became BR class 11. The first 08 arrived in 1953. So, "The NS, 600 class is similar to the British Railway’s class 11 shunting loco, from which the later class 08 was derived". I'll wait awhile in case I am corrected here again, then write

You really need a copy of LMS Locomotive Profiles No 12 - The Diesel Electric Shunters by David Hunt & John Jennison, published by Wild Swan for the background and details of the English Electric 350hp shunters.

Edit: I meant to add that there were very few variations between all the EE 350hp 4’ wheel 2 motor locos no matter which works built the mechanical bits. All had an air compressor for the loco air brakes, and Westinghouse train brakes if required. An extra cabinet on the footplate was added if a vacuum exhauster was required. Taller battery boxes were added to some to enable cheaper batteries to be used. Lots of LMS ordered locos went to the War Department and operated widely around Europe, including with NS.