A new Gauge 3 garden railway
- Thread starter Mike W
- Start date
Mike W
Western Thunderer
The idea is to have an oval-ish track with 2/3 raised and 1/3 ground level, straddling a pierced stone ornamental garden wall at the change of levels, totaling about 160 feet in all. The raised part to be largely non-scenic with passing loops and steaming bays, the ground level to be fully scenic. One Thunderer suggested a simple single track line around the whole garden, but that would be over 600 feet and a lot more maintenance. It would be nice to see trains meandering in and out of the border shrubs, but that could be added at a later date if a longer run was deemed advantageous.
Mike
Mike
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Mike W
Western Thunderer
Well Jamie,
Inside the oval from the non-scenic part where live steam can be more easily managed, but outside on the scenic (ground level) section where the station will be. I could optionally sit on the balcony of the summerhouse (steps in the foreground) with a radio control in one hand a cup of tea in the other, watching trains go by. I hope to have other viewing areas around the track.
The bit which may be of concern is live steam - set off from the non-scenic part, adjust the regulator as best one can - and after maybe 30ft the train goes out of reach, only coming back after going round the ground level part and through the station, by which time it might be going quite fast! That does worry me a little.
Mike
Inside the oval from the non-scenic part where live steam can be more easily managed, but outside on the scenic (ground level) section where the station will be. I could optionally sit on the balcony of the summerhouse (steps in the foreground) with a radio control in one hand a cup of tea in the other, watching trains go by. I hope to have other viewing areas around the track.
The bit which may be of concern is live steam - set off from the non-scenic part, adjust the regulator as best one can - and after maybe 30ft the train goes out of reach, only coming back after going round the ground level part and through the station, by which time it might be going quite fast! That does worry me a little.
Mike
unklian
Western Thunderer
Mike, I don't understand why you think live steam gauge 3 is potentially so uncontrollable . You should have been at the Stafford show where there was a Roundhouse narrow gauge loco fitted with a slow motion device and radio control. It was every bit as controllable as an electric loco, shunting and moving at quite scale walking pace. I think that by the time your railway and the locos to run on it are running, there will be discrete control systems available for you to fit easily, that will do the same thing.
Anyway you've got some digging to do first !
PS what happened to Irchester as a station ?
Anyway you've got some digging to do first !
PS what happened to Irchester as a station ?
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Mike W
Western Thunderer
Irchester as a station is go. Although cited in Little Irchester, it was actually called Wellingborough, later Wellingborough London Road! I would post a map but suspect all O/S maps are in copyright?
I am sure you are right about control of live steam and some I have seen are just superb. When an experts sets a live steam loco off and it gentle gathers speed the effect can be really good. But accidents can and will happen. I've witnessed a couple including one with radio control where a pin fell out of the regulator rendering the R/C useless and the regulator wide open. It was just entering a part of the railway concerned where there was no access and by the time it came back into reach it was going too fact for anyone to stop. Some sort of flywheel would be good and just maybe a slomo is the answer there too - like a sort of safety valve or govenor.
There again I've had an electric loco suffer similar problems when the arial inside the brass boiler touched and my frantic twiddling of the control knobs did nothing at all - it just sedately continued its merry way. Main thing with steam is the potential to do so much more damage IF it does run away.
Mike
I am sure you are right about control of live steam and some I have seen are just superb. When an experts sets a live steam loco off and it gentle gathers speed the effect can be really good. But accidents can and will happen. I've witnessed a couple including one with radio control where a pin fell out of the regulator rendering the R/C useless and the regulator wide open. It was just entering a part of the railway concerned where there was no access and by the time it came back into reach it was going too fact for anyone to stop. Some sort of flywheel would be good and just maybe a slomo is the answer there too - like a sort of safety valve or govenor.
There again I've had an electric loco suffer similar problems when the arial inside the brass boiler touched and my frantic twiddling of the control knobs did nothing at all - it just sedately continued its merry way. Main thing with steam is the potential to do so much more damage IF it does run away.
Mike
Mike W
Western Thunderer
Wellingborough London Road was in the London & Birmingham Railway line from Northampton to Peterborough and opened in 1845. Part of the route is now the preserved Nene Valley Railway and another part is the Northampton and Lamport Railway. Here is a photo taken from the Adjacent Whitworths mill in c1906. Whitworths will be familiar to anyone travelling on the A45 today, but little that is visible in this shot is still there and even the terraced houses behind the station have gone. The road disappearing into the distance goes to Olney. Can anyone please suggest where I might find drawings of the station buildings? I have tried:
Nene Valley Railway.
LNWR Society.
Rushden Railway Museum (Midland but local).
Wellingborough museum.
Wellingborough Archaeological and Histerical Society.
Access To Archives suggests there is a map in Northamptonshire Record office for the purchase of land and I have yet to go there, but does anyone have other suggestions please?
Mike
Nene Valley Railway.
LNWR Society.
Rushden Railway Museum (Midland but local).
Wellingborough museum.
Wellingborough Archaeological and Histerical Society.
Access To Archives suggests there is a map in Northamptonshire Record office for the purchase of land and I have yet to go there, but does anyone have other suggestions please?
Mike
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geoff_nicholls
Western Thunderer
you might try the NRM Search Engine. It seems to be mostly rolling stock, but there may be some building drawings. Their preferred policy is for you to go there and take your own photos of the drawings.
PS.
Claude says she'll take the greenhouse if it's in the way, Could you drop it off at our allotment?
PS.
Claude says she'll take the greenhouse if it's in the way, Could you drop it off at our allotment?
geoff_nicholls
Western Thunderer
Was it built to a standard pattern? it looks a bit like Thrapston, but with different chimneys. Perhaps there are drawings of a similar station?
Alternatively get someone to adjust a couple of the photos to remove the perspective, and make your own drawings from them. The stones used appear to be a standard size.
Alternatively get someone to adjust a couple of the photos to remove the perspective, and make your own drawings from them. The stones used appear to be a standard size.
Mike W
Western Thunderer
It is similar to Thrapston Geoff, and not unlike Wansford either, but I am not sure how similar and the material looks different. The NVR were unable to get a drawing of their Wansford station but I guess I could go there with a tape measure. At least the heights might be similar and enable me to, as you suggest, scale a photograph given length from the O/S map and height from Wansford. Its an option.
Mike
P.S. I have been told that the greenhouse must stay! I am allowed to move it a few feet if needed, but not 50 miles - sorry.
Mike
P.S. I have been told that the greenhouse must stay! I am allowed to move it a few feet if needed, but not 50 miles - sorry.
Mike W
Western Thunderer
Thoughts are now turning to actual construction of the “baseboards” for the raised section of the railway. Wood rots, stone or brickwork sounds like hard work, some say that plastic “Filcris” is good but others disagree, so I am wondering about steel baseboards. The plan is to laser cut the flat deck to the correct curve and weld on side rails about 4in deep, the deck being recessed about half an inch down from the top of the sides. The ends to be full depth and cut with two holes so that sections can be bolted together. The top deck to have 1/4in diameter drainage holes every 6 inches along both sides. I hope that will provide a dead flat and maintenance free platform and the steel posts will have a screw adjustment for height.
Problems I can see so far include whether and how to provide safety fencing – any comments?
and whether it would be noisy? Maybe a loose thin sheet of rubber beneath the track would help? What about expanding foam sprayed underneath?
I am minded to have a couple of sections made to try it out and am awaiting a quote.
Mike
Problems I can see so far include whether and how to provide safety fencing – any comments?
and whether it would be noisy? Maybe a loose thin sheet of rubber beneath the track would help? What about expanding foam sprayed underneath?
I am minded to have a couple of sections made to try it out and am awaiting a quote.
Mike
geoff_nicholls
Western Thunderer
would there be a problem with expansion and contraction with temperature variations?
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Sounds an interesting idea. Some thoughts:
Drainage holes - 1/2 round holes lasered into the outer edge of the deck section during the cutting process would allow water to run down the inside of the lower side rails rather than spread under the main deck plate.
Temperature - I think the only effect will be for the whole curve to grow marginally in radius with expansion, this will easily be accommodated by minute flexing of support legs.
The side rails would only need stitching to deck plate rather than being welded continuously so little risk of distortion during fabrication.
If you had it cut from CORTEN sheet it would quickly rust which could be - no, is a most pleasing colour in the garden and would require no painting or maintenance of any sort by virtue of it becoming protected by its own oxide coating.
Drainage holes - 1/2 round holes lasered into the outer edge of the deck section during the cutting process would allow water to run down the inside of the lower side rails rather than spread under the main deck plate.
Temperature - I think the only effect will be for the whole curve to grow marginally in radius with expansion, this will easily be accommodated by minute flexing of support legs.
The side rails would only need stitching to deck plate rather than being welded continuously so little risk of distortion during fabrication.
If you had it cut from CORTEN sheet it would quickly rust which could be - no, is a most pleasing colour in the garden and would require no painting or maintenance of any sort by virtue of it becoming protected by its own oxide coating.
jamiepage
Western Thunderer
I recall Mike May's raised section was constructed from metal - trough like, some kind of mesh base with edge strips welded on. The whole was supported on rather splendid built up pillars. The pillars were welded up from something like 6- 8mm rod and would no doubt have allowed the sort of flexing Osgood refers to.
I made some notes at the time but unfortunately lost them years ago.
I made some notes at the time but unfortunately lost them years ago.
JimG
Western Thunderer
Mike,
You've got me worried now, having started my baseboards on a wooden frame.
But if you prefer to go for metal instead, have you thought about using an aluminium alloy rather than steel so that you won't have to worry about rust prevention. There seems to be a wide range of extrusions available and it looks as though you can get bespoke sections done as well.Jim.
Mike W
Western Thunderer
Thank you chaps. Never heard of Corten until now, so that's useful.
I've been thinking about expansion all night and think the whole thing will flex as one. Interesting that we provide expansion joints in our rails, but with steel rail and a steel baseboard ... maybe it also will move as one ... ? Aluminium is something I havn't looked into, so thanks for that too.
Mike
I've been thinking about expansion all night and think the whole thing will flex as one. Interesting that we provide expansion joints in our rails, but with steel rail and a steel baseboard ... maybe it also will move as one ... ? Aluminium is something I havn't looked into, so thanks for that too.
Mike
lankytank
Western Thunderer
Mike
Would advocate a look at Hardie Backer board for 'flat surface', a lot of the G1 boys up here in t'frozen North use it - I know of one in the Derbyshire Peak district & one located about 100yds from the beach on the NE coast - each subject to different types of 'foul' weather. The owner of the NE track even went so far as to his own version of destructive testing - he soaked it in boiling water, cold water (frozen) & even tried to set fire to it, apparently it didn't flinch. Fixings can be 'fun' - drill & screw (have a good number of small drill bits to hand, it's a cement based product).
As I've stated elsewhere, it's going to be track bed of choice when my garden railway gets beyond drawing board stage.......
Take care now
Baz
Would advocate a look at Hardie Backer board for 'flat surface', a lot of the G1 boys up here in t'frozen North use it - I know of one in the Derbyshire Peak district & one located about 100yds from the beach on the NE coast - each subject to different types of 'foul' weather. The owner of the NE track even went so far as to his own version of destructive testing - he soaked it in boiling water, cold water (frozen) & even tried to set fire to it, apparently it didn't flinch. Fixings can be 'fun' - drill & screw (have a good number of small drill bits to hand, it's a cement based product).
As I've stated elsewhere, it's going to be track bed of choice when my garden railway gets beyond drawing board stage.......
Take care now
Baz
Mike W
Western Thunderer
I thought long and hard about Hardie Backer Board and it does sound impressive. But it is really just a material for the deck and I would still need a solid framework to support it.
So, after a long chat with my local fabrication company, I decided to investigate stainless steel baseboards which would be bolted together in similar fashion to a portable layout. They suggested that by the time you have steel powder coated the cost would be about the same as making it in stainless. They also suggested lighter sections than I had planned, so it is all 1.5mm thick by 15in wide, whilst the sides are just 3in wide.
They have made up a sample length 18in long on a 15ft radius and the torsional strength is very good whilst the weight is a lot less than I expected although, being a fixed garden line, weight is not important anyway.
Pictures and more notes shortly.
So, after a long chat with my local fabrication company, I decided to investigate stainless steel baseboards which would be bolted together in similar fashion to a portable layout. They suggested that by the time you have steel powder coated the cost would be about the same as making it in stainless. They also suggested lighter sections than I had planned, so it is all 1.5mm thick by 15in wide, whilst the sides are just 3in wide.
They have made up a sample length 18in long on a 15ft radius and the torsional strength is very good whilst the weight is a lot less than I expected although, being a fixed garden line, weight is not important anyway.
Pictures and more notes shortly.