An Unusual Collection

[Pannier Tank]

In the early 60s a few of the Oerlikon units were Stored on the Old Metropolitan Lines at Verney Junction (Bletchley to Oxford Branch) awaiting disposal.

R1261. LMS dc stock at Verney Junction. January,1964.

 

[oldravendale]

Super pictures, David, but these are the LMS units rather than the LNWR Oerlikons. Also the date is, I suspect, a bit later. Nevertheless I've never seen these before and never knew they were stored at Verney Junction.

Brian

 

[Pannier Tank]

Super pictures, David, but these are the LMS units rather than the LNWR Oerlikons. Also the date is, I suspect, a bit later. Nevertheless I've never seen these before and never knew they were stored at Verney Junction.

Brian

My apologies, I didn't realise there were older Units (LNWR) than those shown in the images. I used to travel on the Oxford Branch in the early 60s and remember seeing the Units at Verney Junction.

 

[oldravendale]

Apologies are not appropriate, David. I didn't properly appreciate the differences until I started this thread.

However, on to the submissions for today, and we're moving in to London Transport territory with a vengeance. Firstly, though, another of the Class 24 (guessing that it's the same one) with one of the LMS units on the left (see, I'm learning. I'm guessing that this is also inside Stonebridge Park.



A true "Tube" shot. I'm sure I'll be corrected, but I believe that this is "Standard Stock" or "1923 tube stock" (for the avoidance of confusion two terms for the same thing). The indicator advises that this is bound for Arnos Grove, so certainly on the Piccadilly Line. I remember it well, having taken these trains with my cousin quite frequently from Rayners Lane in my yoof.



I guess this is a bit better than some of the previous ones, but again in the same geographical area. It's T stock, but we don't know where. There's joined up telegraph poles, though, Dave. I was very fond of the T stock - when I worked in London I'd deliberately change from my Bakerloo Line train at Wembley Park to take the T stock to Baker Street (via Finchley Road).



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A true "Tube" shot. I'm sure I'll be corrected, but I believe that this is "Standard Stock" or "1923 tube stock" (for the avoidance of confusion two terms for the same thing). The indicator advises that this is bound for Arnos Grove, so certainly on the Piccadilly Line.

This is Uxbridge. I like the de rigueur duffel bag in the foreground.

I guess this is a bit better than some of the previous ones, but again in the same geographical area. It's T stock, but we don't know where.

I think it's on the Met between Chorleywood and Chalfont. I have checked my post war maps and can only find one overbridge in a cutting where the line curves without many built up areas. This is from Google maps/images and I've circled the possible occupation bridge (bearing in mind it's at least 55 to 60 years between the photo and the image below). However, boundaries and some wooded areas rarely change.



Seeing the telegraph poles on the T stock image make me now think the P stock is on this line rather than the Uxbridge branch. Maps reveal it is very built up along the Uxbridge branch whereas the Met 'main line' passed though more countrified areas.

This collection is becoming more interesting as appears the 'Met' photos are taken immediately after the Amersham electrification and before the wholesale introduction of the A60 stock and the diesel services to Aylesbury.

Incidentally are these photographs from the same collection as some of the LT ones around Amersham and Aylesbury you kindly provided me late last year or earlier this year?

 

[oldravendale]

Dave - thanks again. That's all really very helpful. I'll change my notes on the P stock.

I'd missed the duffel bag! Doubtless the photographer was wearing an anorak!

You are quite correct about the origin of these photos. I'll be including all those you've seen already in this thread as I get to them for completeness and any other comments.

Thanks for your continuing interest which is helping build a lot of info.

Best regards.

Brian

 

[76043]

I've no real idea, but could the Class 24 in the depot with the LMS stock be Croxley Green Depot as Stonebridge Park was LT?

Croxley Green Light Maintenance Depot - Wikipedia

Keep the pics coming!!
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Yes, could be, Tony, as previously pointed out by Yorkshire Dave. But one of the earlier shots, admittedly without the 24, shows Oerlikon stock with a brake van next to Stonebridge Park signal box. If my random use of Stonebridge Park is incorrect - quite likely - where was the electric depot and what was the name that was close? In fact one of the shots also shows the cooling tower which I've always associated with Stonebridge Park. In fact was the BR stock kept somewhere in the Willesden carriage sheds or yard? Was Croxley Green a fuly fledged servicing depot as indicated by the units with bits missing, motors over the floor etc?

I don;t know the answer but would love to do so!

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

A bit of supplementary info from Wikipedia, so treat it with appropriate suspicion. However, around 1914 "The electricity was generated at the LNWR's power station in Stonebridge Park and a depot built at Croxley Green.[1]" That cooling tower in one of the photos confirms it as Stonebridge Park to me. I then asked my friend Google to look for anything about Stonebridge Park Power Station, and bingo! See stonebridge park power station - Google Search

Sorry, I'll not publish the picture on here as I'm pretty confident it's copyright.

Something else from Wikipedia under Stonebridge Park Station "The line serving the station was opened by the London and North Western Railway as part of their "New Line" project on 15 June 1912. It closed on 9 January 1917 and reopened for Bakerloo line trains on 1 August 1917.[6] One of the generating stations supplying this network was on the site of the current London Underground depot north west of the station. The carriage shed, now without direct connection to the DC line, between Stonebridge Park station and Stonebridge Park LU depot was originally built to house LNWR stock using the DC line."

So, although Stonebridge Park may not have been an operating depot as we'd now consider it there were certainly LMS/BR electric trains associated with it. Was it a workshop as well? Those two nearest sheds look to me like running sheds, with the potential for the taller buildings next to them being workshops. Look at those high level windows in some of the images - not Croxley Green methinks judging by photos of the depot.

I'm pleased for my own peace of mind that I found the image as detailed above as I had a hazy memory of seeing electric units at Stonebridge Park. These photos may, therefore, be of further significance as they seem to indicate the use of Stonebridge Park as a depot which may have faded from most memories.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Here's three for today. Firstly another of a T stock train, possibly again between Chorkeywood and Chalfont (thanks for the suggestion earlier, Dave, and I suspect this is the same location).




What a shame that this cab shot isn't a bit better. I believe it's probably T stock again. Location is difficult to determine.



This one is definitely T stock. The date on the cab, June 1956, is probably when the body was last lifted from the chassis - unless someone knows better. I wonder whether the cab shot above was taken at the same time.

I can't confirm location. My first thought was Chesham, but that building and waiting shelter looks more like Watford and there are sidings to the right of the cab. Additionally, as can be seen from the reflection in the cab window, there's a water tower. I've visited Watford Met only a couple of times but I don't remember a water tower there.

I had the opportunity to bid for one of those Baker Street destination boards at the local auction house in Tring but then missed the auction day. Oh bother!



Brian

 

[76043]

I'd vote for Watford.

That cutting would make a great model location, lots of GC action too.

Keep 'em coming!!

Tony

 

[GWR Jim]

Brian.

More wonderful photos of times gone by that were not recorded, in the main I'm guessing, as much as steam traction of the day. As I said before I wonder how many collections have ended there usefulness at the tip? Thanks once more. Can you please let us know what system you are using to be able to load them into PC/Laptop stuff?

Cheers James.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Chorkeywood

I like it .

It would appear this view is looking south if at the same location between Chorleywood and Chalfont.

I can't confirm location. My first thought was Chesham, but that building and waiting shelter looks more like Watford and there are sidings to the right of the cab. Additionally, as can be seen from the reflection in the cab window, there's a water tower. I've visited Watford Met only a couple of times but I don't remember a water tower there.

As Tony said - it's Watford Met as Chesham is on a curve. The water tower remained at least until 1971 when LT steam was withdrawn. It was used by the Croxley tip trains when they used to reverse here to get into the tip sidings.

What a shame that this cab shot isn't a bit better. I believe it's probably T stock again. Location is difficult to determine.

This one will take a bit of tracking down. The only clues are the building in the background and it's on the Met - obviously.

I noticed a lot of these photos are taken in winter which would account for the lighting and weather conditions. I wonder if the photographer lived around the Watford/Rickmansworth/Harrow area?

 

[Eastsidepilot]

This map Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland of Watford shows a water tank ( WT TR ) on the end of the platform.

Col.

 

[oldravendale]

Brian.

More wonderful photos of times gone by that were not recorded, in the main I'm guessing, as much as steam traction of the day. As I said before I wonder how many collections have ended there usefulness at the tip? Thanks once more. Can you please let us know what system you are using to be able to load them into PC/Laptop stuff?

Cheers James.

That's a true observation of the times, James. I was one of those people! In my early career I was employed by a large photographic company and had access to lots of film at either very advantageous prices or, indeed, free. I photographed a lot of steam, although it was well on its way out when I had a decent camera, but the largesse of my company in supplying so much film meant that I photographed quite a few diesels at the time although they were of very limited interest to me. I never photographed EMUs, though. I had an acquaintance at the time who was an enthusiast for EMUs, particularly those on the Southern. My friends and I thought that very weird. In fact this is the first collection I've come across which is EMU focussed - not exclusively so, but certainly in the majority.

As for scanning and post processing, I use an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo Scanner exclusively for negatives, slides and in this case small contact prints. Stone age I know, but it's always worked magnificently and I'm very used to it - just don't let the British Museum know that I still have a working one. Photos are all scanned directly in to the lap top of the time - this was replaced at Christmas so is the only piece of equipment which has any currency. Post processing is done using Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 - if the scanner is stone age this software is positively antediluvian but does what I want without bells and whistles and does it reliably. All those prints have an element of image and edge sharpening and the spots, dirt and scratches are painted out with a simple clone tool. Sometimes it's possible to darken the light areas or lighten the dark areas but there's little one is able to change density or contrast on a print - if I had the negatives the world would be my lobster (I think that's right - thanks Arthur Daley).

I've now produced quite a few prints up to A4 size for photo exhibitions using the scanning system as described above and an Epson 560 printer of abut the same vintage as the scanner. They work well as a pair but the old 560 machine is starting to give problems in some areas so will need replacing sooner rather than later. In fact Simon/Launceston Road/Titfield Thunderbolt of this parish used one of my scans from a 35mm negative for a poster size picture at the back of his exhibition stand - hope it's OK to mention that, Simon.

I reckon this is proof of the old truism - it doesn't matter how technically wonderful your equipment, if you don't know how to use it you'll create crap. One of my favourite shots was taken with a Box Brownie! For those who have mastery of the more up to date opportunities it's a pretty wonderful time, though - just look at Mickoo's results both here and in the States, and I'm impressed at how dissatisfied he is with anything less than absolute perfection.

Brian.

PS - more photos will follow later today.

 

[oldravendale]

Tony, Dave and Col. Thank you all for adding to the info. I'm convinced about Watford Met, though! I too wonder whether the photographer was local to the Met, but I'm going for a bit further out - nearer Chorleywood or Amersham perhaps.

This evening there's only two photos. these were really sparkly and needed a lot of cleaning up.

The first is potentially from a T stock train. I wonder whether it's passing Moor Park - another station I didn't visit. However, Moor Park is between Watford and Baker Street so may be from the same train as that photographed at Watford. There's a further guide to date, too, as this photo is after the quadrupling of the Met Line tracks.


Dunno where this is, but I suspect on the Piccadilly Line. The vehicle closest to the camera appears to be numbered 7505. The train is 1923/"Standard" tube stock. Could it be Rayners Lane? I think not, but it's about the only station I can remember which has a vague similarity.



Brian

 

[76043]

The Moor Park shot is interesting as it shows the widening from Harrow being constructed, so again dates it as early 60s.

Fascinating yet again, I'm increasingly pleased you saved the collection the more we see of it.

Tony

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Dunno where this is, but I suspect on the Piccadilly Line. The vehicle closest to the camera appears to be numbered 7505. The train is 1923/"Standard" tube stock. Could it be Rayners Lane? I think not, but it's about the only station I can remember which has a vague similarity.

It's West Ruislip at the end of the Central Line. VIPA West Ruislip

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The Moor Park shot is interesting as it shows the widening from Harrow being constructed, so again dates it as early 60s.

This was just after the line was electrified to Amersham which was the first stage before the widening was completed. This narrows the time period to 1960 - 1962.

 

[oldravendale]

Useful stuff again, Tony and Dave. Thank you.

Here's today's installment.

The first is, in quality terms, about as good as any photos from this collection can be. It's clearly a Standard Stock train bound for Hounslow which makes it Piccadilly Line. Judging by the concrete structure I reckon this could be Uxbridge again. It's certainly a different train with reporting number 212 - the previous one was 221.



The next is "Silver" stock which must have been pretty new when the photo was taken. Just visible on the destination blind is "Cockfosters" which makes this also Piccadilly Line. I don't think it's Uxbridge. Could it be West Ruislip again?



Finally for today another Piccadilly Line train comprising 1938 stock, also bound for Cockfosters. The photo above and this one appear to be taken on the same day across the platform from one another. Personally I don't remember the Piccadilly Line running with Standard stock, 1938 stock and Silver stock all at the same time but the evidence here suggests that happened. It may also narrow down the date significantly. Is this Uxbridge again?



There will now be a discontinuity of service (ie additional photos) for a few days as we're out tomorrow evening, I'm going to Hayling Island on Thursday for a fishing trip on Friday. The weekend is busy too so the first hope of more pics realistically is Monday next week. Hope you can all bear the suspense.

Brian