Tony Overton
Western Thunderer
I will watch this build with interest. Do you plan to make many alterations/improvements?
Assembling a ragtag fugi-fu-f-freight fleet
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Overseer
Western Thunderer
Not sure yet. I would like to use Exactoscale W irons and brake gear but don’t think I have any spare, hopefully they will be back in production sometime soon.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
As mentioned previously, a JEC Lord tar tank has been under consideration for some time. There are at least two photographs of JEC Lord tank no. 63 from different angles so 63 it will be. Starting with two Slaters rectangular tank kits I have made one longer tank and have parts left over for a short tank. One under frame will be lengthened for this tank and the other used under a yet to be built scratch built tank.
The standard Slaters kit has a 15' long tank. I need a 15' 9" long tank so a bit of cutting and shutting was called for, three pieces each side and top to keep the intermediate rivets in the right places. The height and width stay the same. I wasn't sure the extra length would be noticeable but I think the change in proportion is quite visible. The additional diagonal braces no. 63 had will add to the different look.
The standard Slaters kit has a 15' long tank. I need a 15' 9" long tank so a bit of cutting and shutting was called for, three pieces each side and top to keep the intermediate rivets in the right places. The height and width stay the same. I wasn't sure the extra length would be noticeable but I think the change in proportion is quite visible. The additional diagonal braces no. 63 had will add to the different look.
AJC
Western Thunderer
That’s coming on nicely. From the drawings included in Tourret, the domes are all in the region of 2’ 6” so that sounds about right.
Adam
Overseer
Western Thunderer
For those not familiar with tar tank wagons operating around Manchester during the 1950s 
I have decided to add a few photographs for research/education purposes. The first is a photograph which has been found in two places on the web, showing the JEC Lord tank being modelled at Cloughfold gas works. There is another photograph of this tank on page 180 of Tourret (Petroleum Tank Wagons of Britain - revised edition). Note the similar Lancashire Tar Distillers Ltd tank No. 709 which is useful showing the lettering used.
This leads to this image, part of an Oldham Evening Chronicle photograph taken on 19 June 1958 and published in Modelling Aspects of the Coal Industry by Rob Johnson. The rake of tar tanks is interesting and a useful view of the domes etc. The lettering on the Lancashire Tar Distillers tank in the previous photo convinces me that the tank next to the brake van is also a Lancashire Tar Distillers tank, but what is its number? I am building a Slaters tank kit to represent this tank as it is a very close match. And is that JEC Lord no. 63 just about visible as the third rectangular tank after 537?
Tourret is no assistance with Lancashire Tar Distillers tanks, only including a single paragraph with no information. If anyone has more information or knows of a source I would be grateful.
Instead of working on the rectangular tank I decided to convert some wheels from Finescale to S7. These are Slaters European 3'3" 9 spoke wheels which are only available in Finescale.
Why 9 spoke metre wheels? One of the vans I think is necessary for a representation of British Railways in the 1950s is a European ferry van. There are plenty to choose from carrying fruit, Vespas, Austin spare parts etc seen around the country. My choice for a representative is a Societe Belgo Anglaise des Ferry Boats (I can't resist a bit of franglais) as seen in this photograph from the cover of Larkin's Non-Pool Freight Stock 1948-1968 taken at Stratford in 1956. This has the earlier fancy axle guards, many were modernised with solid axle guards and slightly increased wheelbase. It should be a nice scratchbuild project.
I have decided to add a few photographs for research/education purposes. The first is a photograph which has been found in two places on the web, showing the JEC Lord tank being modelled at Cloughfold gas works. There is another photograph of this tank on page 180 of Tourret (Petroleum Tank Wagons of Britain - revised edition). Note the similar Lancashire Tar Distillers Ltd tank No. 709 which is useful showing the lettering used.This leads to this image, part of an Oldham Evening Chronicle photograph taken on 19 June 1958 and published in Modelling Aspects of the Coal Industry by Rob Johnson. The rake of tar tanks is interesting and a useful view of the domes etc. The lettering on the Lancashire Tar Distillers tank in the previous photo convinces me that the tank next to the brake van is also a Lancashire Tar Distillers tank, but what is its number? I am building a Slaters tank kit to represent this tank as it is a very close match. And is that JEC Lord no. 63 just about visible as the third rectangular tank after 537?
Tourret is no assistance with Lancashire Tar Distillers tanks, only including a single paragraph with no information. If anyone has more information or knows of a source I would be grateful.
Instead of working on the rectangular tank I decided to convert some wheels from Finescale to S7. These are Slaters European 3'3" 9 spoke wheels which are only available in Finescale.
Why 9 spoke metre wheels? One of the vans I think is necessary for a representation of British Railways in the 1950s is a European ferry van. There are plenty to choose from carrying fruit, Vespas, Austin spare parts etc seen around the country. My choice for a representative is a Societe Belgo Anglaise des Ferry Boats (I can't resist a bit of franglais) as seen in this photograph from the cover of Larkin's Non-Pool Freight Stock 1948-1968 taken at Stratford in 1956. This has the earlier fancy axle guards, many were modernised with solid axle guards and slightly increased wheelbase. It should be a nice scratchbuild project.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
I presume this must be a pre WWII vehicle if it has a short wheelbase.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I assume so. From the diagrams I have found which seem to match this the body is 25' long on a 4m (13' 1 1/2") wheelbase. I need to draw it to confirm whether the 4 metres is the earlier or later wheelbase as I think the diagrams had the dimensions altered without being redrawn.
AJC
Western Thunderer
There's a bit more on J.E.C. Lord/Lancs Tar Distillers and British Tar Products here with some photographic references:
www.rmweb.co.uk
The Tourett scrapbook lacks the documentary research that would make it the ultimate reference book though in this case he's clearly been through some documentary record: by the looks of it the Chas Roberts order book which hints that the usual registration process Lord went through was with the LNWR. I'm not sure where - or if - their PO registers survive (archival references welcome!). I've worked out where some of the appropriate information is and noted it here: 4mm - An EM Workbench - Oxford Railtank revisited
That's not a lot of help in Melbourne, I realise, but that could be - yet another - picture on no. 63, yes.
The Ferry Vans are also interesting - Jonathan Weallans has done a whole rake of the Belgian ones in 00 and details of that are somewhere on RMWeb. This isn't that thread, but there are some useful images here: Belgian ferry Vans on Eastern Region and also here (with some useful captioning detail): Type 5030 - I would be interested in the drawing/sketch if you can share that, of course? My Italian van could do with some company.
Hope some of that helps!
Adam
EDIT: Another RMWeb thread here: Pre-nationalisation Ferry Vans / Continental Freight
Tar Distillers tank wagons: British Tar Products, Lancashire Tar Distillers and J.E.C. Lord (1960s or earlier)
I'm currently researching tar tank wagons for my Manchester Ship Canal theme, with a view to making a short train of varied tar tanks. So I am looking for photos of tank wagons belonging to three tar distilling firms in the Manchester area. This was inspired by finding a block train of tank wagon...
www.rmweb.co.uk
The Tourett scrapbook lacks the documentary research that would make it the ultimate reference book though in this case he's clearly been through some documentary record: by the looks of it the Chas Roberts order book which hints that the usual registration process Lord went through was with the LNWR. I'm not sure where - or if - their PO registers survive (archival references welcome!). I've worked out where some of the appropriate information is and noted it here: 4mm - An EM Workbench - Oxford Railtank revisited
That's not a lot of help in Melbourne, I realise, but that could be - yet another - picture on no. 63, yes.
The Ferry Vans are also interesting - Jonathan Weallans has done a whole rake of the Belgian ones in 00 and details of that are somewhere on RMWeb. This isn't that thread, but there are some useful images here: Belgian ferry Vans on Eastern Region and also here (with some useful captioning detail): Type 5030 - I would be interested in the drawing/sketch if you can share that, of course? My Italian van could do with some company.
Hope some of that helps!
Adam
EDIT: Another RMWeb thread here: Pre-nationalisation Ferry Vans / Continental Freight
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LarryG
Western Thunderer
I know the spot where the Oldham Chronicle shot was takne, in fact I worked for a short time in the nearby Holyrood Mill. The square tank wagons were destined for Higginshaw Gas works and the diagram regularly drew a MR Condensing 3F 0-6-0T allocated to Newton Heath. The loco used to charge the incline into the gasworks complex. Always a spectacle, I saw it a few limes by luck and good fortune.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Thanks Adam, I had seen some but not all of the linked sources, and some have more posts since I last looked. Of course you can have a copy of any drawing I prepare, I will probably post it as a pdf here.There's a bit more on J.E.C. Lord/Lancs Tar Distillers and British Tar Products here with some photographic references:
Tar Distillers tank wagons: British Tar Products, Lancashire Tar Distillers and J.E.C. Lord (1960s or earlier)
I'm currently researching tar tank wagons for my Manchester Ship Canal theme, with a view to making a short train of varied tar tanks. So I am looking for photos of tank wagons belonging to three tar distilling firms in the Manchester area. This was inspired by finding a block train of tank wagon...
The Tourett scrapbook lacks the documentary research that would make it the ultimate reference book though in this case he's clearly been through some documentary record: by the looks of it the Chas Roberts order book which hints that the usual registration process Lord went through was with the LNWR. I'm not sure where - or if - their PO registers survive (archival references welcome!). I've worked out where some of the appropriate information is and noted it here: 4mm - An EM Workbench - Oxford Railtank revisited
That's not a lot of help in Melbourne, I realise, but that could be - yet another - picture on no. 63, yes.
The Ferry Vans are also interesting - Jonathan Weallans has done a whole rake of the Belgian ones in 00 and details of that are somewhere on RMWeb. This isn't that thread, but there are some useful images here: Belgian ferry Vans on Eastern Region and also here (with some useful captioning detail): Type 5030 - I would be interested in the drawing/sketch if you can share that, of course? My Italian van could do with some company.
Hope some of that helps!
Adam
EDIT: Another RMWeb thread here: Pre-nationalisation Ferry Vans / Continental Freight
Overseer
Western Thunderer
The JEC Lord tank has progressed a little with a bit of bling added.
But progress has been slowed by deciding do get a couple of other tanks completed as well. First the Slaters tank kit being built as a Lancashire Tar Distillers tank as seen in the Oldham photo. I realised there is a photo of Lancashire Tar Distillers number 507 in Robert Hendry's British Railways Goods Wagons in Colour so it will be 507. The straps ad braces are still to add before sticking it all together.
And one of the Rumney Models anchor mount tanks which has been sitting without ends for quite a while. It now has ends, printed in abs on the filament printer. They turned out far better than I expected, the stepping was minimised by tilting the print at 5 degrees and a light file removed the ridges followed by a couple of coats of spray can undercoat. A little filling is required on one end. More bits to add and the tank is not fixed in place yet.
All really nice kits to build into accurate models.
But progress has been slowed by deciding do get a couple of other tanks completed as well. First the Slaters tank kit being built as a Lancashire Tar Distillers tank as seen in the Oldham photo. I realised there is a photo of Lancashire Tar Distillers number 507 in Robert Hendry's British Railways Goods Wagons in Colour so it will be 507. The straps ad braces are still to add before sticking it all together.
And one of the Rumney Models anchor mount tanks which has been sitting without ends for quite a while. It now has ends, printed in abs on the filament printer. They turned out far better than I expected, the stepping was minimised by tilting the print at 5 degrees and a light file removed the ridges followed by a couple of coats of spray can undercoat. A little filling is required on one end. More bits to add and the tank is not fixed in place yet.
All really nice kits to build into accurate models.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I managed a few hours modelling this afternoon and decided that it would be quicker, easier and produce a better result to make the dome from brass instead of plastic. A short time turning the top then cut a strip of 10 thou brass and embossed some rivets before soldering together. Then some fiddly bits bent and filed from strip brass (cut on the guillotine) and soldered the clamp on. Also found some Exactoscale brake levers and guides to replace the chunky plastic parts supplied in the kit. A few more details to add in small bits of styrene, and stick on the dome and brake bits then ready for paint.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Nearly there. Had a bit of a disaster with the paint. I tried using a non modelling specific enamel paint and it turns out the black has some larger gritty pigment in it, probably ok brushed on but air brushed it was looking a bit sandpaper like. I decided to leave it and use it as preweathering texture. We'll see how it turns out. Otherwise I think it looks something like the real thing. Still need to add the solebar plates and lettering before weathering.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
The Slaters cylindrical tank has progressed to nearing completion.
Built mostly according to the instructions. The only changes are the buffers (to the early RCH type to suit this particular wagon), the diagonal braces moved to inside the solebars (again to match this prototype) and steam heat connections, although the small pipes don't exist yet. This is a good kit, and good value for money with nothing extra needing to be purchased, but it is not the easiest kit to build. It is not difficult but it is a multi media kit so a different mindset is needed to an all injection moulded kit.
Built mostly according to the instructions. The only changes are the buffers (to the early RCH type to suit this particular wagon), the diagonal braces moved to inside the solebars (again to match this prototype) and steam heat connections, although the small pipes don't exist yet. This is a good kit, and good value for money with nothing extra needing to be purchased, but it is not the easiest kit to build. It is not difficult but it is a multi media kit so a different mindset is needed to an all injection moulded kit.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Hi Fraser,
I’m catching up here as the day job eases off a bit in 2022. I’m very much enjoying the thread as it’s very inspirational
Why the gloss black patches? I’m assuming to aid the adhesion of the transfers ?Mick
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Yes, gloss prevents silvering of the waterslide transfers. Depending on the paint available, I usually airbrush gloss paint for the main body colour, apply transfers then airbrush matt varnish over everything before weathering. Good matt varnish is becoming more problematic to find which makes things harder.Hi Fraser,
I’m catching up here as the day job eases off a bit in 2022. I’m very much enjoying the thread as it’s very inspirational
Mick
Glad you are enjoying the thread. They are just boring old wagons after all, that happened to make most of the railways income before motorways were built.