Prototype Barry 1967 and 1968

[daifly]

Hi Brian

This is indeed a mystery. It’s probably appropriate for me to post my analysis in detail for review by others in case I’ve made a CU.

Your photo of the 2-8-0 has a number of ‘diagnostic’ features.
It has no evidence of a welded tank repair.
It has no cab shutter on the fireman’s (left hand) side
The bunker handrail is in the ‘low’ position with 5 rivets visible above it.
It has a straight footplate with no raised portion above the cylinders.
LH cab window guard mid-rail is horizontal

The 8 locos listed in Sixsmiths book The 2-8-0 Tank Papers as being at Barry are as follows. My reasons for discounting them were as stated;
4247 - weld repaired tank, ‘high’ bunker handrail

4248 - cab shutter still present post-1967

4253 - raised footplate

4270 - cab shutter still present post-1967 but see this

4277 - weld repaired tank, cab shutter still present post-1967

5224 - raised footplate

5227 - weld repaired tank, cab window guard mid-rail is sloping

5239 - raised footplate

However, having reviewed everything yet again, I’m coming to the conclusion that with the scores of photos and enthusiasts that crawled over and photographed the residents of Dai’s yard there will not be a mystery loco. I suspect that you, like others, may have been misled by the markings on the rods. Were the rods fitted or in the cab or bunker? Dai will have bought the weight of the rods with the loco and would expect them to be there! If they were not fitted then any set could have been loaded.

The presence of a cab shutter on 4270 which I used to discount 4270 I now suspect is actually a scrapyard addition! Close comparison of your original 1967 photo with the photo in the Flickr link shows a lot of similarities in dents, rust holes, cab window guard rail spacing etc. so I will put my vote on that one.

Dave

 

[daifly]

at Steel Supply Co Jersey Marine (near Pontypool)

BTW Jersey Marine is on the east side of Swansea!
Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Happy Day After Boxing Day.

Only two locos today but five photos. They all suffer from the low light, end of day syndrome but are in colour and black & white so you can take your choice.

First 4942, Maindy Hall. Withdrawn from Didcot in the last last day of 1963 it went to Woodhams in 1964. It was bought by the GWS in 1974 with the intention of converting it to a "Saint" but the first attempt was aborted. I understand the loco to now be at the West Somerset Railway where conversion to a 29XX class "Saint" is taking place although ownership remains shown as the GWS.

The info I have is, in fairness, rather woolly so any correction or update will be appreciated.



The second of today's exhibits is Castle Class 5029, Nunney Castle. It was withdrawn from Cardiff East Dock at the end of 1963 and went to Woodhams in June 1964. It left Barry in May 1976. Ownership has been somewhat convoluted but the loco was initially restored at Didcot in 1990. It is currently under overhaul at Crewe.



On to Dave's last message -

BTW Jersey Marine is on the east side of Swansea!
Dave

Apologies - I actually looked it up and have no excuse for moving Jersey Marine to another part of Wales. At least I knew it wasn't on an island in the channel, somewhere near France!

Brian

 

[simond]

Yes that would indeed be inconvenient if searching for a chandlery…

or alternatively, trying to weigh in some scrap locos, depending how you look at it.

 

[Dog Star]

First 4942, Maindy Hall. Withdrawn from Didcot in the last last day of 1963 it went to Woodhams in 1964. It was bought by the GWS in 1974 with the intention of converting it to a "Saint" but the first attempt was aborted. I understand the loco to now be at the West Somerset Railway where conversion to a 29XX class "Saint" is taking place although ownership remains shown as the GWS.

The info I have is, in fairness, rather woolly so any correction or update will be appreciated.

Brian,

You may wish to re-think the text above... as far as I know the "first attempt" was not aborted, the re-build from Hall to Saint was a long drawn out process which was completed very recently at Didcot. Maindy Hall / Lady of Legend remainded at Didcot throughout the re-build.

regards, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Brian,

You may wish to re-think the text above... as far as I know the "first attempt" was not aborted, the re-build from Hall to Saint was a long drawn out process which was completed very recently at Didcot. Maindy Hall / Lady of Legend remainded at Didcot throughout the re-build.

regards, Graham

Thank you Graham. That's exactly what I was looking for, as the info I'd put together didn't look "right". The location of the West Somerset Railway didn't fit either. Actually, in retrospect I'd have been much better informed if I'd gone to the Didcot web site straight off! I was trying a short circuit of getting everything off a single site which included things like final allocation, withdrawal date etc.

Not properly researched from prime information for which I apologise.

Brian

 

[Simon]

Please don't apologise Brian, your posts are just what this place needs.

Exactitude is fine in its own way, and absolutely fair enough to flag things up, but interesting it ain't.

Hope you are having a good holiday!

Simon

 

[oldravendale]

Here's a couple more Castles. First is 5043, Earl of Mount Edgcumbe. Its final shed was Cardiff East Dock from which it was withdrawn in December 1963. The following spring it was sold to Woodhams. In September 1973 it was bought by Clun Castle Ltd as a source of spare parts for 7029. However, in 1997 the decision was made to restore the loco and in October 2008 it returned to steam. I understand that it is now at Tyseley undergoing another overhaul.

Once again a black and white and a colour image - take your choice!



Another Castle, this time 5080, Defiant, withdrawn in April 1963 after a period in store at Llanelly. In October 1963 it was at Barry and stayed there until August 1974 when it was bought also as a source of spares for Clun Castle. However, at the end of 1985 work began on restoration and it returned to steam remarkably quickly, the date of July 1987 being suggested. It is currently at Tyseley reported as awaiting overhaul.



Brian

 

[Pencarrow]

Cheers for posting Brian, I'm too young to have been there myself but find the photos fascinating. Will there be any ex SR stuff in future editions?

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Chris.

Having "been there" is rather a two edged sword - it means I'm now 75! But what memories I have.

However, there is SR stuff to come. Several S15s, a U or N (I'll have to check) and the inevitable WC/BBs and MNs. They remain a few postings away at the moment. I'm really delighted and surprised, as I've said previously, at the number of people who are enjoying this thread.

All further input to update or correct my descriptions remains most helpful for my records.

Brian

 

[Ressaldar]

However, there is SR stuff to come. the inevitable WC/BBs
Brian

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that 34014 Budleigh Salterton does not appear on the list as I don't think I could bring myself round to doing an 'downgrade'.......



all my own work 2010

stay safe and well

regards

Mike

 

[oldravendale]

Sorry to say that 34014 is pots and pans by now, probably several times over! Well, actually it was well on the way by the end of May 1966 at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend. Lovely model, though. I don't think anyone will expect you to emulate the prototype.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

On to some GWR tank locos this time. First is 2-6-2T 5164. It was withdrawn from Pontypool Road in April 1963 it reached Woodham's in October 1963. It was moved to the SVR in 1973. It was first steamed in preservation in 1979. I understand that it is currently awaiting overhaul on the SVR.



Next is 5199 of the same class. This was withdrawn from Gloucester Horton Road in March 1963. It went to the GWR at Toddington in 1985, then to Llangollen in 1988. It was first returned to steam in February 2003. Following another overhaul I understand that the loco is in operation at the West Somerset Railway but the home base remains Llangollen.

I took this black and white photo because the original ID was grinning through the later layer/s of paint apart from the well preserved original lion on a bike totem.



Finally for today 2-8-0T allegedly 5221. However, according to the records 5221 never reached Barry, being withdrawn from Neath in April 1963 and scrapped at Cohens (Morriston) in January 1964. I suspect I've been lazy and taken the number from that chalked on the loco. I believe it's actually 5224 - see the following colour photo - which was indeed a Barry resident. This is not actually a stellar piece of research as 48431 is in the background of both photos.

5224 was withdrawn from Cardiff East Dock in April 1963 reaching Woodham's in the following August. I remember the loco well as it moved to the GCR in the ownership of Roger Hibbert in October 1978. It was restored to steam and eventually sold by Roger in 1998 as, I believe, a source of funds for his next project, an 8F 2-8-0. I understand it to be currently under overhaul at Peak Rail.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Another couple of locos. First GWR 2-8-0T 5239. It appears that this was at Neath for its entire life, being withdrawn at the end of April 1963. It left Barry in 1973 to go to the Dart Valley Railway. It moved to Paignton in 1976 and was steamed in that year. I understand it is now operational on the Dartmouth Steam Railway after a second overhaul.



Two photos now of 2-6-0 5322. It was withdrawn from Pontypool Road at the end of April 1964 according to two references, or August 1964 according to a different one. It was the second loco to leave Barry, in 1969, being bought by a Didcot Railway Centre member. It was restored in Caerphilly and was in steam remarkably quickly - in December 1970 and it moved under its own power in May 1971. It has since been overhauled once more but is currently on static display at Didcot awaiting overhaul.



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

Another couple of locos. First GWR 2-8-0T 5239. It appears that this was at Neath for its entire life, being withdrawn at the end of April 1963. It left Barry in 1973 to go to the Dart Valley Railway. It moved to Paignton in 1976 and was steamed in that year.

Brian (@oldravendale),

Might this be another piece of mis-information? I think that you are correct in that the loco left Dai's place either in 1972 or early 1973, however the engine did not go to the Dart Valley Railway - the locomotive went to the locomotive factory at Newton Abbot where the engine was restored. Given that the engine was (a) in relatively complete condition when moved to Barry (note the connecting rods are present hence the engine moved to Barry with steam in the boiler) and (b) restored under cover in a premises which was used originally for steam engine repair then a three or four year restoration period seems reasonable so 1976 could well be the date that the engine was put into traffic.

In case one might be thinking "how can he be sure?", in the late summer of 1973 there was a mixing of volunteers between the DVR and Didcot as a result of the DVR lending their 1400 engine to Didcot to complete a film contract. One of the DVR volunteers, called Jim, was a friend and he often came to dinner circa 1973/74. Jim was working on the loco at the time and he would bring photos of the 5224 restoration and those photos showed the engine in a former railway building.

regards, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Graham.

Right now I'm doing little more than preparing a precis of what appears in preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com with some checks for dates against RailUK and BRDatabase. Your correction of misinformation is highly valued as I don't want to be responsible for perpetuating myths and legends! I make the excuse that, for me to go in to each loco site individually and extract prime source info would enable me to publish possibly only one photo a day, if that, and my intention remains to get these photos on to WT in a timely manner. Please would all viewers accept and understand that the info I publish is primarily to give a little story to go with each image from a source which has been generally quite reliable.

Having re-read the above it comes across as rather defensive and curmudgeonly which is not my intention. I truly value all the corrective information and include it in my personal files against each photo.

Best wishes and again, thank you.

Brian

 

[Dog Star]

Brian (@oldravendale),

I understand the situation that you are in with regard to putting meat on the bones for captions to photos which were recorded more than 50 years, in the vernacular you are "on a hiding to nothing".

You keep writing (posting) and we shall keep reading (viewing).


regards, Graham

 

[oldravendale]

Four more photos today. First is 0-6-2T 5637. Its final shed was, in fact, Barry from where it was withdrawn at the end of June 1964. It moved to the scrapyard in September the same year and was bought by Birmingham Railway Museum, Tyseley, in August 1974. It subsequently moved to Blunsdon in its unrestored state in May 1989. 5637 was finally steamed in March 1998. It has spent some years at the East Somerset Railway. I understand that it was due for a ten year overhaul in 2020 so is probably now under restoration again at the Swindon and Cricklade Railway.



This is Halls 5900, Hinderton Hall and 4983, Albert Hall, which it turned out to not be - but more of that in a minute.

Hinderton Hall's final shed was St Philips Marsh where it was condemned in December 1963. Sent to Barry it was rescued by the GWS in 1971 and was first restored in 1976. It's currently on static display awaiting overhaul at Didcot.

As for 4983, it was purchased by 7029 Clun Castle in 1970 at the time believing it to be Albert Hall. As far as I can see all the contemporaneous listings of the Barry residents show the loco to be 4983. It then took 31 years to be restored. During the restoration it was found to have a split personality and to be carrying parts from both 4983 and 4965 - the suggested story is at 4965 Rood Ashton Hall

It is currently preserved as 4965, Rood Ashton Hall and remains at Tyseley awaiting another overhaul.



Next up is 5967, Bickmarsh Hall. It was withdrawn from Westbury in June 1964 and arrived at Barry in July. It was there until 1987 when it moved to the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway and thence to the Northampton and Lamport Railway where it is under restoration.



Finally for today a loco I recorded as 5994, Roydon Hall - which it's not! Having viewed other photos at Barry at around the same time I'm convinced this is 5972, Olton Hall so how I mis-identified it I really don't know. Its final shed was Cardiff East Dock where it was withdrawn in December 1963 and sent to Woodham's in May 1964. It left Barry in May 1981 and steamed for the first time in preservation in 1998. It has subsequently become the engine used in the Harry Potter films painted in red and went to Leavesden Studios when it lost its boiler certification as part of the Warner Bros Studio Tour. I understand that was for a period of two years and whether it remains there or not I'm uncertain.

(I remember seeing the Goodyear Airship at Leavesden in its declining years as an air field and also visited the Harry Potter productions a number of times when it became a film studio as part of my day job. However, that was before the studios became an attraction in their own right. Warner Bros also leased one of the airship hangers at Cardington and among others filmed some scenes for Batman - The Dark Knight, known in production as Rory's First Kiss to give it a degree of anonymity. I visited Christopher Nolan on the set there as well. Airship hangers were favoured because of their vast size and whole street scenes could be built indoors allowing filming in all weather conditions).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Four photos but only two locos.

First is 0-6-2T 6686. It was withdrawn from Merthyr Tydfil in either April or May 1964. It then languished in Woodham's yard until 1990 when it was purchased by Vale of Glamorgan Council. I believe it to be currently under restoration at the Barry Tourist Railway.



The next three are all very similar and are of 7027, Thornbury Castle. It was withdrawn from Reading at the end of August 1963 and was at Woodham's until August 1972 when sold to Birmingham Railway Museum. It's had a rather chequered past since then but is now at the Great Central Railway where restoration is in progress.



Brian

 

[Joe's Garage]

This post has brought back fond memories of a long day out with my late father back in about 1966 or 1967 when he drove my brother and I from Maidenhead to Barry then up to the welsh narrow gauge railways. I can still vividly remember clambering over the locos in Dai’s yard….I would have been about 8 or 9…..thank you Dad.

A big thank you to you Brian as well, lovely photos, shame we did not have a camera then.

Julian