BR and post- BR livery details

[Dog Star]

The Mk.1 and Mk.2 coaching threads have produced useful information relating to the painting of those carriages... what about the liveries which came after the blue / grey period? Where are such details recorded?

There are similar questions in regard to locomotives during the BR Blue/Grey period... for example:- what are the "official" names for the paints used for the roof / warning panel / cab interior ? (I have written "official" because most suppliers of model paints use names which appear to have an "official" ring to them. And the fonts / sizes / positioning of lettering?

Information about or pointers to details welcome.

thank you, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

The only "official" name that will give any measure of accuracy is the British Standard number (RAL is sometimes used, and is helpful to match modern paints to older colours).

From what I can gather, BR Rail Blue is BS 114 and Rail Grey is BS627. I assume the colours used during the reign of the Sectors also have BS numbers. What happens with the explosion of TOCs is open to information.

 

[Dog Star]

So where do the names like "railfreight grey"... flint grey... executive grey... come from?

regards, Graham

 

[Bob Reid]

All of the "official" names came from the applicable BR Paint Specification (of a variety of "spec" numbers over the life of BR), and from some of the livery diagrams - and despite the assertions of a few authorities "on the other (the dark) side" these were the correct names in BR speak and as used by the paint manufacturers. They may not necessarily be the best description of the colour... Witness the many daft arguments over BR's name "BR Crimson Lake & Cream" and the pedants "but it's actually Carmine acording to J.N.Windolene from the 1951 Railway Gazette" (sic)

It's way too big a topic to get into Graham without some form of reference to a particular vehicle and/or era however here's some nice descriptive stuff for you http://www.mediafire.com/?a47ceuruba36i from BR paint spec. 81

As far as the actual nearest B.S. paint colour goes - well most of them are in the public domain these days.

Bob.

 

[Dog Star]

Thank you Bob, maybe that is one can of worms which ought to have been labelled "do not open"... I have accessed the documents that you have suggested and there is a mass of material, just need to find what I am looking for in amongst the slightly less relevant stuff.

OK - what has started this thread? The arrival of some more white boxes... for Peter.

Some time back, maybe a year ago, I asked Martin (Pugsley) about the colours that he had used for his Cl.37/4 as Peter is building the same kit for the same era. The recent arrivals are a Wezzie to be done in Maroon circa 1966 and a refurb Hoover to be contemporary with the Cl.37 (1986-88). Since Martin answered my questions about paints for the Cl.37 I have been able to inspect some prototypes in the "just been sold-off" condition and internet photos of preserved examples... and the colours of the cab interiors are best described as "variable". The arrival of two more kits is raising the same questions....

* what colours were used to paint the interior of the cabs?
* which suppliers include the required colours in their range?

regards, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

Cab interior colours are another of those cans of worms, I fear.

I have some books with colour photos of diesel cabs. After I get back from a wander with my camera and some chums this morning I'll dig them out and try and describe what colours they show.

 

[Bob Reid]

It was easy enough with any loco's painted at St.Rollox in BR Blue days - everything inside was light grey!

Railmatch are pretty switched on with the colour coding of the paints they sell as in general each has a code that matches the BR Spec 81 Item No. for example (Executive) Dark Grey is for BR, item No. 81/201 and for Railmatch 201 (in enamel) and Railmatch 2201 (in acrylic)... see here for example - http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_r...htitle=railmatch&style=main&method=kws&OB=c_a It doesn't apply across the board as they throw in wobblers like - faded rail blue - which BR achieved as a matter of course without a specific paint! still it might help.

Bob.

 

[Dog Star]

Thank you Bob for that does of key / lock / turn / open etc. . Time to rerturn to what Martin wrote in 2012 and see how the cookies crumble anew.

BTW - I cannot find the Railmatch paint for a can of worms.

regards, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

It was easy enough with any loco's painted at St.Rollox in BR Blue days - everything inside was light grey!

From my quick book survey, while I await my taxi for this morning's jaunt, that seems to fit with what I see.

Most of the cab is a very light grey. Some cabinets and other areas get a darker shade. Instrument panels are matt black. Seats are a dark red vinyl, with metalwork to match the cab. Depending on the age of the loco, various degrees of wear and paint chipping are also seen.

Sounds to me like a good excuse to cab some preserved locos.

 

[iploffy]

Well this is a bit of a mine field as alot of the toc's use a base colour on there trains then use a Vinyl overlay so there is no real repainting as such.An example of this is the voyagers when Vermin lost CC they had the vinyl taken off and all of the Vermin branding (including the small shield on the cab front) but the base colour stayed the same.

 

[Dog Star]

Sounds to me like a good excuse to cab some preserved locos.

And that is just where this question started... I had been in the cab of a "restored" 37 on the ELR and then an "unrestored" 37 on the Churnet Valley... and then searched the 'net etc. . Results were not consistent or, in some cases, even close. Martin has given the most reasonable (acceptable / pleasant) details of paint colours and his information is as per Heather's post.

regards, Graham

 

[Bob Reid]

Unfortunately Graham a lot of restored examples just muddy the waters... Unrestored ones - unless they've been time capsules for the last 25 years have seen some changes over the bit in between. There are interior cab shots from then to be had fortunately but they don't half take some digging out.... Throw into the mix the variety between works - even for the same class.......

 

[Dog Star]

Yes Bob, a right bu**er's muddle to be sure. Still looking for the info which Martin (Pugsley) provided for the Cl/37 cabs, then we can check that info against expectations for a Cl.50.

regards, Graham

 

[Stu Fox]

I recall some diesel cabs being various shades of grey (some say US/UK navy paint left over from WW2..)
I also recall some cabs painted a shade of green that reminded me of the Sherman tanks in the film 'Kelly's Heroes'... (WW2 again?)
The Southern (BR SW) cabs on EMU's were a 'minty green'. One experimental finish in the early '90's on a VEP was minty green with a 'fleck' pattern of blue, red and purple (this didn't last long and was lost under the the more usual coating of moulds and funghii that thrived on the damp plywood panels)...

Regards

Stu

 

[Stu Fox]

Whoops, almost forgot the standard cab panel trim on all BR locomotives - masking tape or if they were posh expanded foam filler (bright yellow/orange)...

Regards

Stu