7mm Dapol Pannier Tanks - 57xx or 64xx?

David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
Hi all.

After some advice regarding rtr pannier tanks in 7mm scale. I have noticed that a couple of the well known model railway emporiums are offering both the Dapol 57xx and the former Lionheart 64xx at discounted prices.

Now having read a bit about both models I understand that both are regarded to be excellent models. I may be tempted to acquire one or the other, however, I wanted to ask those in the know which is the better model? The ex-Lionheart 64xx is around £70 more than the 57xx - this comes into consideration but is not an over-riding factor in the decision. Is the 64xx worth the extra outlay when compared to the standard Dapol offering?

Any advice or assistance from those who own both, or have made a similar decision, would be much appreciated.

David
 
Prairie Tank

Prairie Tank

Western Thunderer
Hi David.

The former Lionheart 64xx rebranded Dapol has Die cast chassis, footplate, boiler and firebox , the 57xx is plastic. The 57xx is better detailed with the detail between the wheels well represented compared to the undetailed 64xx

The 64xx was a lot more expensive on release than the 57xx, several hundred pounds more.

Paint finish on both is excellent. Both run very well indeed, smooth and excellent slow speed running too.

The 57xx did come with a fault that was later rectified (however I had the same problem on the 87xx) they run in the opposite direction to that selected. This is an easy fix but if you buy it from a shop get them to check t and if needed ask them to put it right before you have it, saves you a job.

Personally I prefer the 57xx.

I hope this helps, John :)
 
Last edited:
John TAYLOR

John TAYLOR

Western Thunderer
Hi David
I understand your quandary. And I have owned a Lionheart 74XX pannier tank. I am a great fan of Richard Webster designed products and the 64XX has the same chassis. It is an excellent RTR product.

I have recently purchased a Dapol 8750XX Pannier through Rails of Sheffield who will fully test and check all is well before dispatch.
As a long standing 4mm and 7mm loco kit builder i can say that in my opinion the Dapol product has a quieter and smoother motor/gearbox mechanism ( the lionheart is excellent) but mine was a tad noisy possibly because it has a drive belt.

DSC02398.JPG



The Dapol chassis is more detailed and has working inside motion and the wheels are a better GWR profile in my opinion.

DSC04669.JPG
Overall the Dapol detailing is plastic based but is well profiled and has virtually no mould lines that plague some RTR models. The footplate edge has been `feathered` to look a thinner edge and so matches my etched loco builds for a finer look.

DSC04688.JPG

here it is lined up against my kit built Dukedog......

DSC04671.JPG

I`m very impressed with mine and plan to purchase another.

To be fair... here is a vid of my lionheart model....


Cheers


John
 
David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
Prairie Tank said:
Hi David.

The former Lionheart 64xx rebranded Dapol has Die cast chassis, footplate, boiler and firebox , the 57xx is plastic. The 57xx is better detailed with the detail between the wheels well represented compared to the undetailed 64xx

The 64xx was a lot more expensive on release than the 57xx, several hundred pounds more.

Paint finish on both is excellent. Both run very well indeed, smooth and excellent slow speed running too.

The 57xx did come with a fault that was later rectified (however I had the same problem on the 87xx) they run in the opposite direction to that selected. This is an easy fix but if you buy it from a shop get them to check t and if needed ask them to put it right before you have it, saves you a job.

Personally I prefer the 57xx.

I hope this helps, John :)
Click to expand...

John TAYLOR said:
Hi David
I understand your quandary. And I have owned a Lionheart 74XX pannier tank. I am a great fan of Richard Webster designed products and the 64XX has the same chassis. It is an excellent RTR product.

I have recently purchased a Dapol 8750XX Pannier through Rails of Sheffield who will fully test and check all is well before dispatch.
As a long standing 4mm and 7mm loco kit builder i can say that in my opinion the Dapol product has a quieter and smoother motor/gearbox mechanism ( the lionheart is excellent) but mine was a tad noisy possibly because it has a drive belt.

View attachment 97351



The Dapol chassis is more detailed and has working inside motion and the wheels are a better GWR profile in my opinion.

View attachment 97354
Overall the Dapol detailing is plastic based but is well profiled and has virtually no mould lines that plague some RTR models. The footplate edge has been `feathered` to look a thinner edge and so matches my etched loco builds for a finer look.

View attachment 97352

here it is lined up against my kit built Dukedog......

View attachment 97353

I`m very impressed with mine and plan to purchase another.

To be fair... here is a vid of my lionheart model....


Cheers


John
Click to expand...

Thank you very much to both of you for your very comprehensive and in depth replies. Both are very informative and enlightening and I really appreciate you taking the time to set out your thoughts to help me, it's very kind.

It is useful to have a concensus too! It sounds like the 57xx is the better option, particularly if it is available at a bargain price. I must admit, I have managed to hold out on buying one until now but it is becoming more and more tempting. I have two lots of stock, firstly some 1920s GWR wagons and secondly a few 1950s BR ones. So the difficult decision would be whether I go for a 'Great Western' liveried example or an early crest BR one. Decisions decisions... it would be nice to justify one of each but unfortunately my bank manager would never condone such frivolity!

Thanks again to both Johns (plural!) for your insight. I may well relent and give in.... after all, it would be rude not to if a bargain is available!

PS - pardon my ignorance but am I right in thinking that a 'GWR' liveried loco would be suited to a 1940s era layout?
 
GrahameH

GrahameH

Western Thunderer
GWR early livery all the way in my opinion !
Here's my Minerva version ( I also have the Dapol 57xx ) on test
Just after buying it off Chris at the Reading Show Dapol announced theirs was about to be released so... I went hungry for a month and bought that one too !
To be honest I'm very pleased with both manufacturers models.

Grahame
 
Last edited:
David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
Hi Graham,

Thanks for your reply. That was going to be a further question.... how do the Dapol and Minerva examples compare? Seems they are both excellent models in their own right. An early livery GW loco would indeed fit very nicely with those wagons of mine.... hmm food for thought.
 
GrahameH

GrahameH

Western Thunderer
David Hall said:
Hi Graham,

Thanks for your reply. That was going to be a further question.... how do the Dapol and Minerva examples compare? Seems they are both excellent models in their own right. An early livery GW loco would indeed fit very nicely with those wagons of mine.... hmm food for thought.
Click to expand...

Hello David,

It is rather a subjective matter ( for me at least ) to make direct comparisons between the two frankly.

Both are superb runners and there are obvious details incorporated on the Dapol model which aren't on the Minerva offering.

I am currently extremely busy to give a fuller reply, sorry, and both locos are packed away in their respective boxes otherwise I would happily video both for you to show them running.

I hope you are able to purchase one or both to suit your time period, all I would add is that I haven't been disappointed with either models.

Grahame

p.s. It could get a lot worse..... I ended up buying a Dean Goods kit and have got to this almost finished stage

 
David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
GrahameH said:
Hello David,

It is rather a subjective matter ( for me at least ) to make direct comparisons between the two frankly.

Both are superb runners and there are obvious details incorporated on the Dapol model which aren't on the Minerva offering.

I am currently extremely busy to give a fuller reply, sorry, and both locos are packed away in their respective boxes otherwise I would happily video both for you to show them running.

I hope you are able to purchase one or both to suit your time period, all I would add is that I haven't been disappointed with either models.

Grahame

p.s. It could get a lot worse..... I ended up buying a Dean Goods kit and have got to this almost finished stage

Click to expand...

Hi Grahame,

Many thanks for your input and there is definitely no need to apologise at all, you have done more than enough to help me! I might try and get a look at both models in real life to compare and contrast each.

Sounds as if I won't be disappointing whichever way I go. I am already the proud owner of an Ixion Hudswell-Clarke so I know the quality of the models from the Ixion/Minerva stable but Dapol have also really stepped up to the mark with recent releases in the scale.

Thanks again,
David
 
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P

PMP

Western Thunderer
David Hall said:
PS - pardon my ignorance but am I right in thinking that a 'GWR' liveried loco would be suited to a 1940s era layout?
Click to expand...

Yes it can be, there’s pictures of G W R livery 8750 and 57xx Panniers at withdrawal in the late 1950’s, they clearly lasted through the final 10-15 years of their lives in GW livery. They would likely have received a smokebox number plate though.
 
Jordan

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
I'll just add to the temptation with this....
20181214_203317.jpg

...although that's the Minerva 8750!! :p as my Dapol one hasn't been weathered to within an inch of it's life, yet, but has been getting loco-specific details -

IMG-20181201-WA0006.jpeg

Re GWR or BR early crest - of course, Ben Ashworth took a photo of a Pannier Tank in the Forest of Dean in the early 1960s, where at least the 'G' of GWR was still visible on the side of the loco. There's a prototype for everything, as they say.... ;) :cool: :thumbs:
 
David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
PMP said:
Yes it can be, there’s pictures of G W R livery 8750 and 57xx Panniers at withdrawal in the late 1950’s, they clearly lasted through the final 10-15 years of their lives in GW livery. They would likely have received a smokebox number plate though.
Click to expand...

Thanks that's really useful. Food for thought as I could get a 'GWR' liveried loco and run it with both GW and BR goods stock. Stretching the bounds of possibility a little maybe but not inconceivable.....

Then again I can always invoke rule one if it is questioned! ;)

Jordan said:
I'll just add to the temptation with this....
View attachment 97446

...although that's the Minerva 8750!! :p as my Dapol one hasn't been weathered to within an inch of it's life, yet, but has been getting loco-specific details -

View attachment 97447

Re GWR or BR early crest - of course, Ben Ashworth took a photo of a Pannier Tank in the Forest of Dean in the early 1960s, where at least the 'G' of GWR was still visible on the side of the loco. There's a prototype for everything, as they say.... ;) :cool: :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thanks Jordan, that weathering is superb. So prototypical.

Again more evidence to support a 'GWR' example into the '50s. I suppose it would be rare for a loco to last so long in a pre-nationalisation guise (terrible English I know!) but not clearly not unknown. Hmmm decisions, decisions... :headbang:
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
David Hall said:
I always think the Panniers look so smart in LT colours. What stock would you intend to run with it?
Click to expand...

I have already built and converted the Slaters BR brake van to represent one built at Ashford for LT - post 169 in my thread here and some ex MET 6T ballast wagons, again in my thread, post 249 here

I will also be scratch building some LT (ex-MET) 3 and 5 plank wagons, some ex-MET brake vans and looking at converting the Heljan dogfish to a LT hopper ballast wagon.
 
David Hall

David Hall

Western Thunderer
Yorkshire Dave said:
I have already built and converted the Slaters BR brake van to represent one built at Ashford for LT - post 169 in my thread here and some ex MET 6T ballast wagons, again in my thread, post 249 here

I will also be scratch building some LT (ex-MET) 3 and 5 plank wagons, some ex-MET brake vans and looking at converting the Heljan dogfish to a LT hopper ballast wagon.
Click to expand...

Great stuff! I'll have a peruse of your thread as I am very intrigued by the LT stock.
 
LarryG

LarryG

Western Thunderer
John TAYLOR said:
Hi David
I understand your quandary. And I have owned a Lionheart 74XX pannier tank. I am a great fan of Richard Webster designed products and the 64XX has the same chassis. It is an excellent RTR product.

I have recently purchased a Dapol 8750XX Pannier through Rails of Sheffield who will fully test and check all is well before dispatch.
As a long standing 4mm and 7mm loco kit builder i can say that in my opinion the Dapol product has a quieter and smoother motor/gearbox mechanism ( the lionheart is excellent) but mine was a tad noisy possibly because it has a drive belt.

View attachment 97351



The Dapol chassis is more detailed and has working inside motion and the wheels are a better GWR profile in my opinion.

View attachment 97354
Overall the Dapol detailing is plastic based but is well profiled and has virtually no mould lines that plague some RTR models. The footplate edge has been `feathered` to look a thinner edge and so matches my etched loco builds for a finer look.

View attachment 97352

here it is lined up against my kit built Dukedog......

View attachment 97353

I`m very impressed with mine and plan to purchase another.

To be fair... here is a vid of my lionheart model....


Cheers


John
Click to expand...

I just wondered whose sound chip is in your 64XX in the video. It sounds pretty good.
 
Captain Kernow

Captain Kernow

Western Thunderer
Jordan said:
my Dapol one hasn't been weathered to within an inch of it's life, yet, but has been getting loco-specific details -

View attachment 97447
Click to expand...
I've noticed that the number - 4698 - is actually visible, but those lamp irons do give it away. This was the one that went to the Southern Region and then returned to the W.R. (?Gloucester shed?).

I know it was a regular in the Forest of Dean.
 
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