7mm David Andrews Patriot.

[oldravendale]

Thanks very much Phil.

Agree about the P & P, but when one has spent £multi and hours of time it's a small price to pay.

Brian

 

[Isambarduk]

At the risk of somebody saying 'Oh David, change the record!' there is absolutely no need for any 'slop' in the axles of a six-coupled loco to negotiate 6' radius curves in O Gauge Fine Standard, as there so much slop between wheel and rail (and an LMS Pacific has a shorter fixed wheelbase than a 4F, so it's not about size).

If you wish to negotiate curves sharper than 6' radius, then do what the prototype did when atypically sharp curves were encountered: gauge widen. There's no reason why the poor locomotive should suffer because of a shortfall in the unprototypical track formation. For sprung and/or compensated frames, some end float will be necessary to allow the hornblocks to raise and fall without jamming but there is no need for it to be excessive (I have found that 0.2mm is adequate).

David

 

[farnetti]

Steph, Simon,

Likewise I've also been considering ball races on locos, but as Steph notes, side play is an issue, the right way would be races in some sort of horn block but then that's making things even more clunky and complex with modifications to frames etc.

MM,

Nice attention to detail, there is a train of thought that if you can't see it when it's on the track, then don't model it, I'm glad you don't subscribe to that I especially like the full fat cast brake blocks, really don't like etched ones myself.

I must try this solder cream you speak of, cleanliness is now my biggest bug bear, working in Nickle Silver helps a lot, reducing the amount of solder required and making sure things are a nice fit helps too. But still the curse of the little green spots of corrosion blight the odd crevice here and there.

I used to use Viakal as a cleaning agent but it turned brass locos near orange and tarnishes NS with a brown tint as well. I don't really know why it bothers me so much because if it's a good clean surface for painting then eventually it won't be seen.

All the best

Mick D

I also use this solder paste, with a RSU. Using a cocktail stick you can add tiny amounts to the joint which means much less cleaning up afterwards. I have further found it generally works perfectly fine without the need for flux but not in every case.

I have been using Viakal but Malcolm Mitchell, at the Bristol show, suggested that it now contains a product that leaves a slight film, Lanolin maybe. He now uses a Lidl product under the name of W5 (I think, a sort of limescale remover) which I am going in search of tomorrow.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

Brian. Phil sent me a link to a supplier of 2 x 2 clear acrylic and they're here in Sheffield. I cocked up the ordering and now have metres of it. You can have some of mine, as can anyone else who needs some. Come and find me at Kettering, you can have a peep at one of the T9s

Nick

 

[mickoo]

I knew I had some solder paste buried at the back of the desk but could not recall what, a quick rummage and found I've already got some this same paste, I've not had good results with it before, but going on the above and seeing MM's neatness I think I'll give it another try

 

[oldravendale]

Brian. Phil sent me a link to a supplier of 2 x 2 clear acrylic and they're here in Sheffield. I cocked up the ordering and now have metres of it. You can have some of mine, as can anyone else who needs some. Come and find me at Kettering, you can have a peep at one of the T9s

Nick

Thanks for your kindness, Nick, and I'd like to take you up on it.

Regrettably I won't be at Kettering (I'll be at Great Missenden for the railway modellers' weekend). However, Steph will be there and maybe he'll pick a piece up for me - please Steph?

Hope to see you soon anyway.

Best regards.

Brian

 

[MerseyMan]

Today, while waiting for the car to be serviced, I finished off the cylinder drain tap assembly. The sprue wasn't long enough to thread, so I cut it off, drilled a hole, taped it, and then solder a 10BA screw into it. Once I had marked out where the new pipes (wire, or whatever you want to call it) were going, I cut the old ones off and drilled a couple of oversized holes to accept them. To make sure I got the same radius on all the bends, I gentle wrapped them around a small file. I then soldered them in place with a 16ba nut on the underside.The clasp is a friction fit at the moment so I may use a drop of superglue for a more permanent fit - I don't dare try and solder it





Now onto the next one.

 

[MerseyMan]

With other things taking priority, progress with the build has been slow. I did assemble the main frames but they developed a very slight wobble somewhere along the line, so the blow torch came out and they got dissembled back into their individual components. I have found I have no problem with the very delicate precision stuff but I seem to really struggle with getting the large pieces square and true. Anyway, I didn't like the way the balance weights are 2 dimensional so using the original from the kit, I marked out and cut out a duplicate from very thin brass sheet for the inside of wheels. Instead of pressing out the rivets with a rivet press, I decided to drill holes and use some from Scale hardware which will pass through the spokes and into the weight on the other side. As I don't want any blobs of solder protruding which may catch something later on, I counter stunk the holes on the outside of the brass plate which help take the solder. The remaining solder was then filed flat. I feared melting the plastic spokes so opted for 70 degree Low melt. I used my newly acquired Lockite 480 to secure both sets of weights. One down only 5 more to go.

 

[MerseyMan]

On a side note, has anyone experienced any trouble over "Custom Charges" with Scale hardware recently. I only brought these rivets and despite paying $14.00 Shipping, I then got slapped with a £11.00 Custom charge which I had to pay before I could receive my post.

 

[mickoo]

Nice clean work there

Customs, yup but not scale hardware just other stuff, it's luck of the draw and even though your goods are below the required limit it won't stop the men in grey from being utter berks and slapping you with import tax.

I had some magazines from Australia, tax paid in Australia, package marked as magazines with full pricing on bill of lading and marked as tax paid, but HMRC decided to slap me with £14.00 customs charges and £12.00 for the privilege. Goods only cost £8 including postage.

On the other hand I've had goods from the US costing over £100 and they went through just fine, though they seem to be getting tighter all the time.

There was a brief discussion about this in my NGG16 thread and you can get scale hardware from Europe and the UK, you pay a little more but you are assured no nasty additional bills on delivery.

MD

 

[daifly]

you can get scale hardware from Europe and the UK, you pay a little more but you are assured no nasty additional bills on delivery.

... but only if Remain wins the day next week!

 

[markjj]

On a side note, has anyone experienced any trouble over "Custom Charges" with Scale hardware recently. I only brought these rivets and despite paying $14.00 Shipping, I then got slapped with a £11.00 Custom charge which I had to pay before I could receive my post.

I had a similar problem a couple of monthe back I brought 5 packets of rivets and had to pay something like £12 tax and service charge. I ordered another 20 packets and emailed them to ask them to change the description which they did they sent them as a sample pack and put the cost for one packet on the customs slip. Hey presto no charges this time gid knows what it would have been otherwise....

 

[JimG]

On a side note, has anyone experienced any trouble over "Custom Charges" with Scale hardware recently. I only brought these rivets and despite paying $14.00 Shipping, I then got slapped with a £11.00 Custom charge which I had to pay before I could receive my post.

I got some spikes from Andy Riechert's Proto87 stores and got VAT and handling charges of £13.09 for a package value of $36. A month later I got rivets from Scale Hardware for $30 cost and there were no charges. According to the Border Force label on the spikes package, the VAT and handing charges are applied on packages of more than £15 value - about $21 at the present exchange rate. So it seems to be a bit of a lottery as others have said. The only factor that might have affected matters is that the spikes came in a small cardboard box whereas the Scale Hardware parts came in a padded envelope - maybe the packaging triggers the Border Force's attention.

Jim.

 

[MerseyMan]

Cheers guys. I've used SH many times over the last couple of years with no problems at all. I guess my luck has just run out.

 

[MerseyMan]

I've now finished the balance weights on all 6 wheels. If the truth be told this was an awful lot of work for something that you probably won't even notice once its all painted. However it was a most enjoyable exercise which, I suppose, at the end of the day, is what it's all about. (Sorry about the poor quality picture. I had to use my phone as my normal camera is away for repair).



Now back onto the chassis which I failed on last time. The rear axle attached to the gearbox will be fixed but the other two axles will have sprung hornguides. I've already made the springs fully removable, So my question is... is it better to get the chassis square and true on a plate of glass without the hornguides first, then fit the hornguides afterwards, or is it best to fit the hornguide to both side frames first, then assemble the frames ?

 

[Steph Dale]

I'm a firm believer in the latter. Get the hornguides in each frame, aligned with the coupling rods using jig axles.

To assemble the chassis I then use lengths of 3/16" silver steel through each axle and a good try square to ensure the entire chassis is square and flat. Once that's done the major functional parts of the chassis are complete and accurate - anything else is just cosmetic. Valvegear can be a bit twiddly but it is still only a cosmetic feature.

Steph

 

[MerseyMan]

Thank you Steph. I do have a hobby holidays master chassis jig. When I assembled it the first time there was nothing wrong with the running quality's, with no tight spots or binding. It just seemed to develop and slight wobble when placed on plate glass. After studying and measuring the dissembled components I think one of middle hornguides was slightly too high which made it rock on that particular axle.

 

[MerseyMan]

With the milk tank out of the way, It was back to the Patriot. Todays job... prepare the slidebars and crossheads. The Union Links from the kit was unacceptable so I replaced these with some from Laurie Griffin. The drop links supplied in the kit was also unacceptable so I sourced a pair from Dave Sharp at MOK. These went together very nicely with some "valve gear rivets". The slidebars, crosshead and combination lever are all straight out the kit. It was finished off with an oil pot from Ragstone and some 0.4mm copper wire. In the photos I think the wire looks slightly over scale but in the flesh it looks absolutely fine. I still need to add the cotter for the piston rod but that needs more thinking about. Anyone got any ideas on the best way to do this?

 

[MerseyMan]

OK then, after toing and froing about the mainframe assemble and where I might have gone wrong last time, I decided to bite the bullet and just go for it.... So this is now where we are currently at.



I don't know where I went wrong last time, so this time I assembled the frames on plate glass, making sure they were square and level first, before adding the hornguides afterwards using the Hobby Holidays jig. The etched on springs have been cut off and replaced with cast ones from Hobby Horse Developments. I couldn't find any conclusive evidence on what type it should have, so on the advice from the guys building the real one (45551, The Unknown Warrior), I used "Jubilee" ones from Laurie Griffin. However, when the guys fitted their Jubilee Springs to 45551, they found some serious issues and soon discovered the Patriots had Springs more like those fitted to early Black 5s. D-oh!!! So just like those building the real one, I had to replace mine with ones of the correct pattern aswell. I made the springs on the first two axles removable by tapping the castings 12Ba and using brass counter sunk screws to hold them in place. The coupling rods are "Jubilee" castings from LG with the wheels tapped 10BA. I copied Dikitriki's superb method for the return crank and the rest of the motion is from kit, except for the expansion link which is a modified casting. The valve gear as per the kit is designed to be fixed it neutral, This means the valve rod/spindle has no travel. As mine is fixed in forward gear, the sloppy fit of the valve rod in the valve casting is unacceptable. Therefore I have fitted some 1.4mm brass tube to the full length of the cylinder. As I have no idea what size the inside diameter is, I bought a selection of cheap drills and used the one which has the best sliding fit. I then cut off the cast rod from the valve spindle and replaced it with this drill bit. The glass holder is simply to simulate the weight of the body. As I consider myself a complete novice, if anyone has any comments on any errors I've made or how I can improve, please please make them.



With the rods at dead bottom, should the Eccentric rod not be at the same angle as the main connecting rod or is my return crank slightly too long?

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Merseyman,

I look forward to seeing it having a test run on the Wirral OGG layout in the not too distant future - Open Day - Sunday 15th January 2017 per chance?

cheers

Mike