timbowales
Western Thunderer
It will be interesting to see how the model press react to this, especially as Hattons were a big spender in terms of advertising pages
Tim T
Tim T
End of an era - Hattons Closing down.....
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
I doubt one retailer shutting down will make any difference to the market, more of a share for the remainder, for those who buy RTR they'll still get it from what ever source is available, as for 'model making' materials etc. I've haven't used a model shop in decades !, certainly never used Hattons.
Col.
Col.
WM183
Western Thunderer
How sad. Hatton's have always been so easy to deal with, as someone outside the UK. First Eileen's and now Hatton's.... my list of suppliers who 1) ship to the EU and 2) take payment in forms used in the 21st Century is getting so so thin.
A massive loss to the hobby.
Amanda
A massive loss to the hobby.
Amanda
I agree with this. I’ve seen it so many times since l started out in this business in 1976. All the efforts by businesses that eventually come to nothing.
The hard fact is that you have to plan your business according to the actual size of the market, not what you think it should be! And you have to take into account customers ‘perceived value’ as to any particular item. Higher for locomotives and lower for rolling stock - even if the sum of components in a coach is higher!
Also, you have to make each sale a profitable one. If you are not doing this then your business model is ultimately unsustainable.
I’ve always run my business on the basis of ‘it has to be fun too!’ and despite all the doom and gloom around, I’m still enjoying running my own outfit more at 70 than l ever have and with bigger plans for the future (even though logically time is against me!).
I’m lucky as l can split my interests day by day almost and can work on a wagon one day, a detail set for the Airfix Bloodhound missile the next or a boat the day after. So boredom is never a threat.
Keep it small and fun! Gone are the days of trying to conquer the world - my philosophy for what it’s worth. Probably not much!
DJP/MMP etc
simond
Western Thunderer
I suspect a "big spender" box seller pulling their adverts from the model press will make a difference, in the end; the model press is reliant entirely on advertisers for the bulk of their revenue (and the bulk of their pages, which is why I stopped buying RM etc years ago). If the box sellers go...
From the manufacturer's point of view, if I could sell all I can make direct to consumer at full retail list price, why would I want to sell through a distributor network that adds cost, but no volume? (nor, in fact, any value from the customer's or my point of view either). I have to have a website, and I'll probably attend shows, so I might as well sell direct and cut out the middleman.
I think that online sales have absolutely done for the high street, and it's really not great for anyone involved in any type of retail other than convenience or supermarkets any more.
not better or worse, just different.
S
Oz7mm
Western Thunderer
David
There's a lot of doom and gloom about small suppliers, but if they have your philosophy then they will thrive. The big boys don't want to muscle in on your market. Retailers are caught in the middle of a big change. The kitmakers will have their most common products copied by the RTR producers, or already have. Niche suppliers are probably OK. They don't need to go to as many shows now, which are expensive and time consuming. They can supply on line, attend fewer shows to make sure people can see their wares.
All that means that the economics of shows will (already have?) change as well. Still some way to go with restructuring especially in 0 Gauge.
John
There's a lot of doom and gloom about small suppliers, but if they have your philosophy then they will thrive. The big boys don't want to muscle in on your market. Retailers are caught in the middle of a big change. The kitmakers will have their most common products copied by the RTR producers, or already have. Niche suppliers are probably OK. They don't need to go to as many shows now, which are expensive and time consuming. They can supply on line, attend fewer shows to make sure people can see their wares.
All that means that the economics of shows will (already have?) change as well. Still some way to go with restructuring especially in 0 Gauge.
John
cmax
Western Thunderer
Hi Mike.
If Peugeot are now only selling online, and in the case of your local dealer, have no new cars in the showroom, where do you go to test drive new models that appear, or simply to see if said vehicle is suitable for access etc.
Regards
Gary
I appreciate your comments John.
But l would add that by understanding your market, the small guy is still be able to sell lots of any one item - not just niche products.
As an example, we will sell hundreds of even a thousand or two over time of the detail set for the re-released Airfix Bloodhound Missile. Especially as it will also include details for the Series l Land Rover and the launch pad and transporter. Just as we’ve sold hundreds of our big 32nd kit for the Mk.2 Version. It’s a subject that people have a great interest in and is associative of a certain time - such as Vulcans and Victors.
You have to study the market. I was delighted to see that Airfix are re-releasing their old Belvedere helicopter kit too this year. Another one that people remember with affection and that l can have great fun with. We have six new sets for the 35th Airfix Ferret Scout Car out next week and multiple sets for their 48th Sea King. All will be excellent earners l have no doubt.
And so low are the tooling costs for such items as these that they’ll be in profit within days of their release and will earn money every week for years to come.
Some folks have asked me if I’m gutted that Dapol released an 08 Shunter. We’ve sold around 1500 of these kits over the years, so no! I often wonder if we actually made more actual profit from our kit than the RTR one has, with all the discounting and other factors!
Your comments about the economics of attending shows are pertinent as well. For me this realisation came as early as 1999 when we first had a fully functioning web site. I decided after 2002 that shows were generally a no-no and with the added costs these days, would be completely unviable for us.
DJP
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Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
I have dealt with Hatton's, mainly by mail order, over the past seventy years and had the pleasure of meeting Norman Hatton at the shop in Smithdown Road on one of my rare visits to Liverpool. Dealings were always straightforward and fair as far as I was concerned. Thus, I am sad but not entirely surprised to see them close down in these trying times. I compliment them on leaving the trade honourably and without debt and trust that the staff will find further employment should they so wish.
Roger.
Roger.
Or more importantly, to check that your model railway will fit in the back of the vehicle!
Terry
ICH60
Western Thunderer
I was told that BMW and Mercedes were doing the same now.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Who would by a new car without physically seeing one let alone test driving ? I was going to say a bit like a blind date but at least you'd get to meet even if the boat race don't come up to scratch !
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
BMW/Mini, Volvo and Mercedes are the same. All online. The last new car I purchased, the dealer went online to the same website as I could have at home. They get very little commission and rely on future service often paid for by the manufacturer.
Bigger dealers may have a demo vehicle. Mostly the showroom cars will be customer collections wanting to collect.
Bigger dealers may have a demo vehicle. Mostly the showroom cars will be customer collections wanting to collect.
Clarence3815
Western Thunderer
So how does one make an informed choice between cars you cannot physically see and try out?
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I've just bought a Skoda for 'er indoors. (I know - I just doubled the value by putting some fuel in it and all that but it's really a very nice car.) The point is that the dealer had plenty of cars to demonstrate and once we'd refined exactly what we wanted actually got that car for us to try. Maybe Skoda are a bit backward, but VW were the same with getting us cars to test drive. As were Jaguar, but that was a huge vehicle and not at all suitable.
When I wanted my last Merc the dealer leant me one for a long weekend to try out. I bought it. I'll never buy a car without road testing it. However, the cars we have now are intended to last for at least ten years or until we hand our licences in, whichever comes first, so I guess the manufacturers couldn't give a Flying thingy.
Brian
When I wanted my last Merc the dealer leant me one for a long weekend to try out. I bought it. I'll never buy a car without road testing it. However, the cars we have now are intended to last for at least ten years or until we hand our licences in, whichever comes first, so I guess the manufacturers couldn't give a Flying thingy.
Brian
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
I’m think the dealer will and does have a car to show you but it’s unlikely to be the car you’ll buy. Too many options for a dealer to have a sample of every model, trim and even engine type. All these features will be online and probably on a sample wall within dealership for trim and colour options.
In our experience the cars in the dealer on display were sold waiting collection. We could sit in them and look etc but a demo car was available to drive but not the model we actually bought. We chose the trim, colour etc from samples on a display wall. The online software built the car so we could see how it was going to look in person n screen virtual 3D world.
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
Toyota operate the same way in New Zealand. They have also adopted a 'fixed price' marketing strategy and dealers are not allowed to discount.
simond
Western Thunderer
Many moons ago, I was part of an auto industry - academia partnership - entitled the “Three day car project”.
The project was based on the premise that the customer goes to a dealer, and discusses the car they want, and then accepts a different car that the dealer has at a (sometimes significant) discount, or puts up with a prolonged wait to buy the vehicle & options that he or she wants. The aim was to be able to take an order, and deliver a car to the customer’s exact specification, and to the customer’s home, within three days. The aim was to actually build to order, and deliver in that time.
The logistics of such an approach, back in the 90’s, were difficult in the extreme, I guess that’s why we had the project. I suspect it would be somewhat easier nowadays, but delivery, let alone built to order, would still be challenging. Clearly it’s not going to be possible for an American- or Chinese-built car to be delivered in that time, but in the heady days before Brexit, we could perhaps imagine being able to ship across Europe - provided the car can be configured and built within a few hours of the sale.
I think I’m right in saying that Daewoo were the first vehicle manufacturer to have virtual showrooms, and I believe that is also Tesla’s business model.
I don’t think there’s much love lost between dealer networks and manufacturers anyway!
The project was based on the premise that the customer goes to a dealer, and discusses the car they want, and then accepts a different car that the dealer has at a (sometimes significant) discount, or puts up with a prolonged wait to buy the vehicle & options that he or she wants. The aim was to be able to take an order, and deliver a car to the customer’s exact specification, and to the customer’s home, within three days. The aim was to actually build to order, and deliver in that time.
The logistics of such an approach, back in the 90’s, were difficult in the extreme, I guess that’s why we had the project. I suspect it would be somewhat easier nowadays, but delivery, let alone built to order, would still be challenging. Clearly it’s not going to be possible for an American- or Chinese-built car to be delivered in that time, but in the heady days before Brexit, we could perhaps imagine being able to ship across Europe - provided the car can be configured and built within a few hours of the sale.
I think I’m right in saying that Daewoo were the first vehicle manufacturer to have virtual showrooms, and I believe that is also Tesla’s business model.
I don’t think there’s much love lost between dealer networks and manufacturers anyway!
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Apparently the latest Range Rover is only going to be badged as 'Rover' dropping the word Range as it's all electric !
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
We seem to have wandered away from Hatton's forthcoming closure, don't we?
Roger
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Roger
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