7mm Gladiator NER/LNER/BR B16/1 - Another North Eastern Workhorse

[FiftyFourA]

Hi Rob,

Just seen the video of the working chassis. Nice job. I always dread that point where you turn on the juice for the first time but it's a great feeling when everything works first time.

Peter

 

[Rob Pulham]

Today's efforts have seen the tender body make some progress.

So far everything has fit as it should and the only minor concern is that the handrail holes look as if they might be a bit on the large side but until I have the overlays soldered on I won't know for sure.







One of the cleverest bits of the kit so far is the tender flares. The tender sides have a half etched overlay that you have to create a flare on and then another half etched overlay to go over that for the just the flare. This means that although you have more flares to bend being half etched they are easier to form.

Although I initially wasn't looking forward to it, I recalled reading an article way back when I modelled 4mm, of someone who used a piece of rod in a vice and he squashed the flare against the thick rubber of a replacement shoe heel.

I didn't have a spare rubber show heel but I did have a set of rubber soft jaws for my proxxon vice (many thanks to Richard Lambert - Dikitriki for recommending the vice to me when I was having a look at his work in progress Duchess last year).

The instructions recommend using a 3/16th rod and I had some lengths that I bought for setting up chassis before I invested in my jig. I placed the overlay against the tender side and measured how much flare was above the side 4.5mm and drew a line at 4.5mm from the top across each side the the rear.

I placed the rod in the vice utilising the V groove for gripping round sections. I put a soft jaw on the other side placed the flare along aide the rod with the pencil line just visible and worked my way along using the vice to squash the flare against the rubber of the soft jaw. I had to go along each piece a couple of times until I was happy with the result and then I repeated the process for the small flare overlays.

I just need to solder them onto the tender sides now but that will be a job for tomorrow as an early night beckons before going to Leigh show tomorrow.

 

[Heather Kay]

Flaring technique noted. I think I shall need to look at some experiments.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Sunday afternoon saw the tender overlays added to the sides and rear of the tender. This wasn't quite as smooth as I had hoped and I ended up having to run over it with the iron to get them to sit flat which meant quite a bit of cleaning up.

The original plan was to tin both sides and use the micro flame but I just couldn't get it to stick for some reason. The other issue was that despite my best efforts otherwise by bending them into all sorts of shapes the aluminium clips, bent the flares in places meaning some remedial work.





As you can see I still have some cleaning up to do, but I don't plan to clean up the inside of the flares until I have the tender top in place.

I am not sure whether it was me that got the overlay slightly out of line (it is wider than required so that you can file it back to get a crisp edge) or that the etched hole was slightly out of line but I will have to open the slot a bit to fit the rear lamp iron.

Next up I made a start on the tender top and coal chute. I want to get this fitted before attempting to make the corners of the tender flares from solder.

These all went pretty much as planned but there is a sight gap that I will need to fill. Again I am not sure whether it was my folding or the etch that's slightly out but it's an easy thing to sort.







I haven't done any cleaning up on this as I did it last thing last night and I was back to work this morning so couldn't be too late to bed. - The redness is from using the microflame to solder the seams. It washes of easily enough with some bar keepers friend.

 

[oldravendale]

As you were using the microflame I suspect that the overlay expanded so that it wasn't touching the underlying structure. Different people have different techniques, but the one that works for me is to use a large tip on the soldering iron and plenty of flux, support the underside and apply iron and solder to the surface. You need very little solder to make a good contact, and it cleans off easily afterwards - it's little more than a film. As you proceed across the surface use a bit of wood scrap to hold the surface down where you've just soldered. I've also used solder paste and a RSU but find this rather less easy as the RSU tends to expand the metal locally and you can end up with a bubbly surface. Bit of wood and following the heat source works well here too. It works well once you have some experience, but you'll need to do some tests first.

I suggest that you wait for other comments before you consider my suggestions in too much detail - there are so many more experienced model builders than I on WT!

Brian

 

[Rob Pulham]

As you were using the microflame I suspect that the overlay expanded so that it wasn't touching the underlying structure. Different people have different techniques, but the one that works for me is to use a large tip on the soldering iron and plenty of flux, support the underside and apply iron and solder to the surface. You need very little solder to make a good contact, and it cleans off easily afterwards - it's little more than a film. As you proceed across the surface use a bit of wood scrap to hold the surface down where you've just soldered. I've also used solder paste and a RSU but find this rather less easy as the RSU tends to expand the metal locally and you can end up with a bubbly surface. Bit of wood and following the heat source works well here too. It works well once you have some experience, but you'll need to do some tests first.

I suggest that you wait for other comments before you consider my suggestions in too much detail - there are so many more experienced model builders than I on WT!

Brian

Hi Brian,

That's pretty much what I did in the end, right down to using a piece of wood to hold it in place while it cooled. - I think that I used a bit too much solder on the iron but I got there.

I have successfully added overlays in the past with the microflame (I use it set on a fairly low heat setting for this) but it wasn't to be on this one.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Following on from some dialogue with MikeMeg over on RMweb who had posted on his 4mm thread, a photo of the tender from the front (Mike has recently built the 4mm version of this kit which is currently held, but not released for sale yet by London Road Models). The photo is from Ken Hoole's NER Loco book which I have, but I hadn't realised that the photo was there until Mike mentioned it.



This is a cropped view of the tender front from the photo which differs a little from that portrayed in the kit.
The kit provides a flattened V shaped plate with a rectangular cutout for the coal door and a coal door which is riveted and had two holes for a handle. The V shaped plate when fitted leaves long triangular gaps down either side of it.

There are some etched rivet strips provided to cover these and to replicate the angle plates that you see in the photo. I didn't find these (my fault for not looking at either the instructions or the etches before proceeding) before I had made up a couple of angle plates out of some half etched scrap that I had to hand.

having discovered them I still elected to use the ones that I made, because the rivet spacing was quite close together on the supplied strips. And it would have meant soldering two strips on instead of four.

I am sure the riveted strips will not be surplus for long.





The arrows on this repeat photo, shows what I have added to it so far. I still have a few bits to do - this sort of thing brings out the detailing devil in me I just can't help it.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Following a query from Graham (@Dogstar) and a comment about not being able get at the coal by Jim Snowden on the guild forum further work was done last night to represent the sliding plate on the front of the coal chute.

Without taking the front back off and doing major surgery I had to employ a little subterfuge to give the impression of a sliding plate but I feel that once painted it will look the part.





I also managed to get the front upper coal plate fitted and the lifting rings.



I still need to add the steps to the sides of the coal chute but that's about as far as I will go on this build (I keep forgetting "straight from the box"...) - I have lots of ideas for future builds of my own though.

 

[Heather Kay]

(I keep forgetting "straight from the box"...)

I know what you mean!

 

[Rob Pulham]

Yesterday having cut short a long weekend up north by yours truly forgetting to take his medication along I looked more closely at the brake and water scoop standards. I had more dialogue on RMweb with MikeMeg on the subject last week and he had remade the 4mm versions. I thought initially that although slightly on the fine side that the castings looked usable. - By fine they are quite slender in appearance whereas the photo posted earlier show them to be quite chunky, especially where the mounting pieces.

These are the castings provided.



The problem came when testing them against the tender front (stuck in place temporarily with bluetac).



Despite my cutting them off the sprue with as much length as possible, they are short in the column length

I couldn't see any immediate way of extending the column* A better person than me might have been able cut it of and drill out the fixing brackets but they looked a bit on the fine side for me to be confident that I could achieve it so I decided to have a go at making some replacements.

Now I have to be honest at this point and say that this really became a test exercise to see what I could achieve with my Proxxon mini pillar drill with the X-Y table attachment. I have been looking for something to try it out in anger, having only drilled out 4 buffer stocks since I got it at Christmas.







They took me all day to make but I really enjoyed it and I have parts roughed out to make a couple more for a build for myself at some point. to give an idea of scale/chunkiness the new columns are made from 1.6mm rod.

*Thinking about it afterwards I could possibly have joined an extension piece onto the castings where they go through the wooden floor extension that's shown on the photo of the tender front.

 

[Dog Star]

I couldn't see any immediate way of extending the column...

... so I decided to have a go at making some replacements.

... this really became a test exercise to see what I could achieve with my Proxxon mini pillar drill with the X-Y table.

I, for one, am interested in what you retained from the original castings... what you did you do to the retained parts... and how you used your drill / compound table - to achieve the result.

 

[Ressaldar]

Great work there Rob, you should forget to pack your medication more often

cheers

Mike

 

[Rob Pulham]

I, for one, am interested in what you retained from the original castings... what you did you do to the retained parts... and how you used your drill / compound table - to achieve the result.

Hi Graham, to misquote a popular disclaimer, "no original castings were harmed in the making of these replacements". They just went in the spares box.

With regard to use of the drill/compound table (now why didn't I remember the name of it last night), I used the table to accurately cross drill the 2.3mm rod to create the hole for the lever in what was to become the top cap. I then end drilled it 1.6mm to accept the rod for the column. I would have struggled to do this by hand placing the sub of rod in order to drill the end - I was struggling to see it having misplaced my Optivisor type magnifier (subsequently found exactly where I put it down last).

I then drilled equally spaced 1.6mm holes in a piece of 2mm x 12mm bar which were then cut into four slices and subsequently filed in pairs to create the mounting brackets for the columns. Drilling another two lines of spaced 0.8mm holes in a strip of 0.5mm x 10mm allowed me to cut the angled backing plates from them which I then soldered stubs of nickel rod into the holes to represent the bolt heads and soldered the mounting bracket to the front of the plate to complete the job.

It seems that although I have based my columns on those provided in the kit, they are a little on the thick side at 1.6mm and should really be 0.9mm to be prototypical. I don't plan to remake them! It will be a small matter to reduce the column size on the other pair should I choose to make them up later.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Another session last night brought the tender a little nearer to completion.

I managed to get all the whitemetal castings soldered on. I still haven't decided whether to fit the small steps at either side of the coal chute or not the jury is still out.

I haven't soldered the coal space/tender front in yet because I want to be able to get at the hand rails, lamp irons etc from the back before I do, then the last job will should be making the corners for the flares.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Rob
You have to fit the steps otherwise the stoker can't climb up to shovel coal forward. Definition of a stoker is any individual younger than me on the footplate .
Regards
Martin

 

[Rob Pulham]

Due to having a lot on at work I haven't been able to get back to the B16 until Sunday afternoon and yesterday.

Still good progress has been made since then with most of the tender detailing cracked. I found that the rear tender flare overlay wasn't on straight to that had to come off and be straightened.

The coal space is still loose until I get the brake/water scoop standards in place - I figure it will be easier to drill the floor if it lifts out.



Note the longer hand rail at the front of the tender. This seems to have been a feature of a few of the B16 tenders and thankfully you can make it out on the one photo of 61450 that I have found to date.



The small steps were a bit of a fiddle but worth the effort I think.

 

[Scale7JB]

I think we're building in unison..!

JB.

 

[Rob Pulham]

This week has been a good one at the bench seeing the tender almost complete.







The brake/water scoop standards rotate and you now need to unscrew them to get the chassis from the body.

When refitting the chassis during testing the cranks on the bottom of the shafts of the standards I realised that the brake rods were catching on the outer frame and had held one end of the chassi from fitting flat to the underside of the body. There is a plate with a slot in it in which two slots in the front ends of the inner chassis engage this was about 1.5 too high. To cure it I adjusted the offending brake spreaders and the rods inwards and then with the chassis upside down and engaged in the slots I used the microflame to run around the etches of the plate while pressing on the underside of the chassis with a block of wood. After a few moments the plate eased slowly downwards into the correct position and when the solder set again it was as it should have been.



As far as I can tell there is just the vacuum pipe and the axleboxes/spring castings to fit. I may also make the central 'buffer' from styrene but I will see how it goes when I test the running to see if it needs it.

Next it's on to detailing the chassis before tackling the body details.

 

[Rob Pulham]

With the tender virtually complete my return from Doncaster saw a start made on detailing the loco chassis. I add the springs to the drivers and then looked at the brake gear.
The instructions are along the lines of fit parts.... with a couple of build photos to assist with the general positioning.

Thankfully looking at prototype pictures helped answer most questions. the first being how the hanger mounts fit
There is a better view in Yeadon but I found this and it saved me scanning the book.



As with some older kits, the forks in the etches for the rods connecting the brake spreaders are a little over etched so needed bushing.



By accident or design some scrap from the chassis etches folded over the spreader was just the right thickness to fill the gap.



They just need soldering together once fitted.

 

[Rob Pulham]

A slight diversion from work on the chassis has had me looking at the oil boxes that are quite prominent on the sides of the frames above the footplate.

Although I have some castings they are too long and wouldn't cut down very well so I decided to have a bash at making some from scratch.

I measured the length of three together and marked it off on a length of square bar and then marked a line 1mm from the top, along what will be the front edge. Next I filed the marked section down to the line at the front while maintaining the full height at the back. - To give me a sloping top.

A strip of scrap etch to form a lid and another length with two rivets punched in either end forms the mounting bracket.

Before cutting each individual oil box off the bar I drilled holes for the pipes in the bottom and then added some 08mm OD tube and length of fine brass beading wire to represent the oil pipes. Three down three more to make for the other side but at least two of them don't need the tube/pipes fitted because they sit on the splasher top.