Gresley Carriages in Detail

[Mike Trice]

For many years I have accumulated information on Gresley GNR and LNER carriages. I have on occassion uploaded some of these to help modellers on both WT, LNER Encyclopedia and RMWeb.

A recent attempt to help @Heather Kay highlighted the potential of me creating a single point of reference that I could use to upload drawings or photos as I deem appropriate for general reference. I have a few items almost ready to go but need to spend a lot more time on some of the other areas of interest. As people ask questions in other threads I will add to this reference collection when I can. The net result however is that entries are likely to be in a relatively random sequence but at least there will only be one topic to look through.

There are time when I will refer to elements of coaches by their common LNER name so to avoid confusion these are the terms I will try and keep to:



To kick off, so to speak, I will start with some basic vertical dimensions. Every time I start a new 3D model or cad drawing I have to establish the vertical heights of all the beading, windows, cornice etc. Trying to read these from GAs can get very confusing and difficult to make out. Part of the confusion is that there are two types of "standard" carriage, those where the body rests on rubber pads between it and the underframe and those that don't and sit directly on the underframe:


Where a carriage is "padded" the lower edge of the body has a scalloped edge and you can see the gap between the solebars and body (and occassionally the pads):

Whereas the unpadded version has a plane bottomside and no gap :


Where India Rubber pads are used they look like this (apologies for poor quality):


Edit: Height diagram replaced to make it easier to read.

 

[Rob Pulham]

As someone interested in LNER coaches and also a previous recipient of Mike's help on several occasions, I am very grateful to Mike for starting this topic.

 

[Mike Trice]

Thanks Rob.

This post will (hopefully) give some details relating to the drawgear used on vestibule stock. Vestibule coaches feature both a buckeye coupling and a conventional hook and links. The buffers can be extended when coupled to locomotives/vehicles using the conventional hook, and are retracted when used with buckeyes.

The following drawings are use with welded underframes but hte rivetted version is similar:
Here is a photo of the drawgear with the buckeye in dropped position:


The buffers have been pulled out and a detachable collar fitted to engage the springs:

For when coupled to a non buckeye fitted locomotive:


When used with buckeys the collar is removed and hung on the headstock:


And the buffer retracted:

 

[Mike Trice]

Some more photos:

The mount for the vacuum brake blanking plug:


The end of the vacuum hose that would normally attach to the blanking plate when not coupled to another vehicle:


Note for the later clipped buffers that the underside of the body is recessed to permit the buffer heads to retract:

Steam heat valve. To the right is a spare three link coupling:


Some views of the steam heat valve in this case without a hose:





The pin on the chain is used when the buckeye is in its engaged position to keep it horizontal:


And at rest.

 

[Dog Star]

As someone interested in LNER coaches and also a previous recipient of Mike's help on several occasions, I am very grateful to Mike for starting this topic.

I have received also much help from Mike in respect of coach details, particularly the underframe fittings of the D167 Buffet and the roof ventilators for the BTK and BCK kits from JLTRT.

For many years I have accumulated information on Gresley GNR and LNER carriages. I have on occassion uploaded some of these to help modellers on both WT, LNER Encyclopedia and RMWeb.

A recent attempt to help Heather highlighted the potential of me creating a single point of reference that I could use to upload drawings or photos as I deem appropriate for general reference. ... As people ask questions in other threads I will add to this reference collection when I can. The net result however is that entries are likely to be in a relatively random sequence but at least there will only be one topic to look through.

Thank you Mike (@Mike Trice) for doing for the Gresley coach what other WTers have done for the BR Mk.1.

 

[Mike Trice]

The specific request for information that started this thread: passenger communication gear.

All items shown here apply primarity to vestibule stock. Non vestibuled stock used the same fittings but arranged slightly differently.

First off the components:

And how they are arranged on a vestibuled coach:

This photo show the main valve probably from a non-vestibule coach:

Some additional photos. You will note that not all coaches follow the same positioning of the parts. For some reason the Open Thirds seem to be different, not sure why:

 

[Mike Trice]

The GNR used the same components but the mounting posts were curved rather than square:

 

[richard carr]

Mike

This is just fantastic

Thank You


Richard

 

[Mike Trice]

The following drawings show (I think) the hand brake linkages for a full brake:


Sorry for the poor quality in these photos taken at Colne Valley Railway many years ago:






Will add some more drawings later.

 

[Mike Trice]

In her post @Heather Kay asked about the positioning of the Vacuum Pipe in relation to the solebars and steps:




The following image shows the location of the vac pipe and also includes the connection to the vac cylinders:


The white star on the solebar indicates the location of a cord which can be used to open the valve on the vac cylinder to manually release the vacuum if necessary:

 

[Mike Trice]

More hand brake details in no particular order:

 

[John Duffy]

Very helpful. I was puzzling over the Hatton's vehicles where the communication gear seems excessively obvious. Your information has made that a lot clear to me. Much appreciated.

John

 

[Susie]

Dear Mike,

Thank you so very much for starting this thread, it is all really useful and interesting - well to me at any rate!

S

 

[Mike Trice]

Tonight's topic is roofs, e.g. those with domed ends.

First some drawings for a 9'0" vehicle:












LNER roofs are a semi elliptical shape. The end specification states the various ellipse dimensions:


Before discussing what these dimensions represent a quick diversion.

Here you can see a domed end minus its canvas covering. Note the position of the nails fixing the boards to the vehicle:


Basically there are a number of wooden hoopsticks (5) to which they are fixed. Inside the coach the area below the dome is boarded up thus:

So what do the quoted dimensions represent? Well it has taken me a while to understand these and I admit only since this afternoon. So without further ado:

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mike Trice]

Managed to find some photos of the interior of the vestibule which explains why there is a boxed in section there - it hides the top spring for the vestibule connector:

 

[LarryG]

Small wonder the LNER was always strapped for cash. Those wooden coaches were really labour intensive. Very interesting scale drawings though for all that.

 

[Arun Sharma]

A seriously useful thread Mike.
Many thanks

 

[Mike Trice]

While on the subject of roofs, first off the destination board brackets. Once again I apologise for the poor quality of some of the drawings:


In the above note the cross section for the rain strip.

 

[Mike Trice]

Cornice strips over the doors and safety handles for the water filler caps:








Certainly in Thompson Coaches the roof handles were spaced 2' from the centre line of the coach (or it could be from the filler cap if offset from the centre):
Other designs of grab handle are also suggested however I have little info on this.

An LNER Torpedo vent:

 

[Mike Trice]

One type of filler cap:




In this photo the removable top is missing and the cap appears to be blanked off:

The Sleeping Car section in the National Collection has the correct arrangement which can just be seen in this side view:


In later years a different design was used that fed the water from track level:

Restaurant and Buffet Cars originally featured a distinctive roof cowl which is really not obvious when looking a GA's of the coaches side elevations: