7mm GWR Outside Frame Covered Wagons - kits from the past

[Dog Star]

Finally... something for myself. Some GWR wagons from the Victorian era and running during my period of interest (being 1910-1914)... intended for the GW&GC Jt model and suitable for Scruft's Junction. The starting point is some kits which were produced by Meteor Models in 2013 although I suspect that the patterns go much further back. If making patterns for a covered wagon then putting planking on the inside surface of the ends seems overkill... until I remembered that Richard de Camin offered parts for the GWR four wheel open Siphon and I think that the pattern for the end of that vehicle has been used for this kit. So what do you get for your money?





The pressed roof looks reasonable and shall be used.
The axleguards and springs seem OK and are likely to feature in the build.
The buffers look nothing like the prototype (see below) so I shall have to source some alternatives.
The coupling hooks and links are just plain naff by the standards of today and shall be replaced.
The hand brake levers, the V-hangers and the brake lever guards are cast poorly, replacements required.
Brake block, hanger and pushrods; hmm, tricky, not easy to replace so maybe need some TLC.
I have no idea as to the purpose of the cube to the bottom RH corner, suggestions?
Spring steel wire for the buffers... we shall see.
Brass wire... for what?

Plenty of parts that really do not cut the mustard today, I think that finding suitable replacements is going to take time and that task is likely to lead to a lengthy build time for these wagons. One decision made is in regard to the coupling hooks, a no-brainer here - parts have been obtained from CPL (@PJBambrick).

As for the resin parts, two sides and two ends, these are cast in RTV moulds and are not necessarily flat.

Here is a photo of the prototype when withdrawn from revenue service and in use by the Locomotive department.

This photo has been posted on WT before, by Richard (@Wagonman ), and without attribution. The condition of the van suggests that the photo was taken in the 1930s which leads me to believe that the photographer was L E Copeland.

[for completeness, I believe that this kit is no longer available from Meteor Models, when I bought my models I purchased all of the remaining stock].

 

[Overseer]

The brake gear shouldn't be too hard to improve. I suggest either Exactoscale from C&L Finescale (hidden down a few layers on the website) or Ambis Engineering from Hobby Holidays for good etched brake parts. The axle boxes look too wide to me, as does the width between the legs of the axleguards - the smaller journals and bearings used usually meant narrower axleguards. ABS did some nice GW grease axlebox and axleguard castings.

 

[Heather Kay]

I wonder if the Broad Gauge Society might have some suitable parts?

 

[Dog Star]

... the Broad Gauge Society might have some suitable parts?

Just which parts are you considering?

And we are off... there are four kits here and comparison of the resin parts shows that the consistency of dimensions is not an attribute of the resin mouldings; further, the sides are not as flat as might be desired. Work is required on the mating surfaces between sides and ends to ensure minimal gaps between the planking on the ends and the corner post on the sides. A good fit has been achieved with the planking, not necessarily so with the join in the solebar. On some joins between end and sides I have been able to align the corner washer plates - which wrap round from side onto end - and on some corners there is a step-join in the washer plate. The mis-match at the corners shows the variance in the dimensions of the resin parts and is going to require effort to rectify.

As the individual parts are going to be "fitted" to each other I start by marking each side / end for assembly:-

with the remaining parts marked C-D (side) and D-A (end).

I join each side and end pair as per:-

and then join the two sub-assemblies to form a body. When joining one side to one end I put a 20th plastic spacer under the free end of the side because the headstock is deeper than the solebar... yet more re-work required.

The inside of the side mouldings has ledges which are for locating the axleguards and I cut a 60thou plastic floor to rest upon those ledges:-

I break each corner with a 1/16" cut so that the floor does not bind with the internal corners of the body.

Holes are drilled in the floor to ensure that there is no enclosed void in the body:-

The photo above shows the variable gap between the headstock and solebar, more re-work.

Given the soft nature of the resin I cut some 60th plastic sheet to provide formers to fit inside the body, corners broken as before to avoid the corner of the formers arguing with the internals of the body:-


and this picture shows where I was going with the build:-


The four formers are fitted into the body with UHU for the resin-plastic join and Butanone for the plastic-plastic joins. A false roof is cut and fitted...and then things went downhill.

 

[Heather Kay]

Springs, buffers, brake gear… I don't really know if any of the component parts the BGS has will fit the bill. It was just another suggestion of a place likely to provide items that might suit.

 

[Dog Star]

To recap, resin sides and ends with 60 thou plastic for a floor, false roof and formers within the body - resin to resin joins with UHU (sparingly) and then locked with Hafix superglue, resin to plastic with UHU and plastic to plastic with Butanone. Nothing unusual in that lot... or so I thought. About two days after the first body had been assembled, on a mirror glass as a surface plate, I noticed that the body now had a twist. Choose your own Olde English vocabulary here.

Trying to remove a twist "as is" is generally not a 100% successful game so I removed the plastic parts and separated the body shell into the individual sides and ends. The troublemaker was soon revealed - one of the sides had a twist such that the two "ends" of the side were not in the same plane. Previous experience with resin kits from Meteor Models had shown me that warming the resin enabled correction of twists and bends - carefully; too little warmth and the resin does not move (or cracks) and too much warmth gives a floppy part which can bend under its own weight. Given that I needed to remove a twist I commenced by sticking two ends to the side which was twisted:-


At this point one of the ends is flat to the mirror whilst the other end has a raised corner (becuase of the twist in the side). Application of heat, using a hair drier, on either side of the central area of the side part enables me to press on the two ends until both ends are flat to the mirror glass and hold the ends down until the resin cools.

This experience with the first body changes my approach to re-inforcing the body shell. Whereas I had initially provided formers to stop the sides bowing in under finger pressure I now add diagonals into the shell. All of the internals in this view are 60 thou plastic, right angles are broken where a part fits into an internal corner.


and then the top is fitted with UHU for the resin - plastic join, the holes allow butanone to be introduced into the underside joins between the plastic false roof and the plastic internal formers, as here:-


The result of this backtracking exercise is a stack of body shells:-


which have been grounded pending some searching for parts at the forthcoming Reading Trade Show.

 

[Rob Pulham]

I have no idea as to the purpose of the cube to the bottom RH corner, suggestions?

Hi Graham,

It bears some resemblance to the Brake van lamp castings that Jim McGeown supplies with some of his BV kits. Perhaps it's something similar that has slipped in by mistake.

 

[daifly]

In a similar vein, and also without attribution ('cos I don't know where it came from) I've added this in case it helps.

It gives a better look at the buffers at least.
Dave

 

[Heather Kay]

The BG coaches I am building use Slater's Midland Railway wagon buffers. They're a pretty good match for the photo in the the previous post.

 

[Wagonman]

I wonder if the Broad Gauge Society might have some suitable parts?

They do, grease 'boxes and various springs, though I don't remember the reference off-hand – and it takes a long time to plough through the 'bits' pages...

Richard

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The condition of the van suggests that the photo was taken in the 1930s

Could well be as there is a SR 8 plank wagon in the background carrying 1930's style lettering.

 

[Dog Star]

.. I've added this in case it helps.

The pikkie is a nice image of a GWR wooden O/F covered wagon... and then I took note of the wagon to the left hand side. Humm, a three plank wagon with an extra two planks if I read the corner / washer plates correctly. Looks like a product of Swindon, anyone any ideas?

 

[Wagonman]

The pikkie is a nice image of a GWR wooden O/F covered wagon... and then I took note of the wagon to the left hand side. Humm, a three plank wagon with an extra two planks if I read the corner / washer plates correctly. Looks like a product of Swindon, anyone any ideas?

Clearly something cobbled up by the Engineering Dept as it was originally a standard 3 plank open! Not something you'll find in the Diagram Book, that's for sure.

 

[Wagonman]

I ought to add, for the sharp eyed, the extra pair of bolt heads in the side sheeting either side of the doors are part of the sand van conversion (internal partitions) so don't go reaching for the Archer stick-ons...

 

[Mike W]

I know next to nothing about the GWR but I see the kit comes with four-shoe brakes. Both the photos show vans in very late condition but neither has brakes on the second side. I also seem to recall that the iron Minks never had a full second set of brakes. So, did these vans ever have four-shoe brakes?

I think this was one of Richard's very first resin body kits and it was a revelation at the time. I remember asking if he would do something LNWR and he said "yes" (great) ... if I made the patterns (oh dear). But the thought wouldn't leave my head and I did make a couple of patterns in the end, which he cast. A jolly nice chap.

Mike

 

[Dog Star]

... I see the kit comes with four-shoe brakes. Both the photos show vans in very late condition but neither has brakes on the second side. So, did these vans ever have four-shoe brakes?

Not as far as I know and to be fair the instructions do say to omit the second set of brake blocks / hangers / pushrods.

...I remember asking if he ('Richard') would do something LNWR and he said "yes" (great) ... if I made the patterns (oh dear). But the thought wouldn't leave my head and I did make a couple of patterns in the end, which he cast.

Mike (@Mike W), please tell us more about those LNWR mouldings... prototype? scale? photos?

 

[Mike W]

It was a long time ago and Richard marketed them. LNWR D45 meat van, D17 20-ton brake van. 7mm Both now reside in Poole I believe. (correction - D45 and D17a - sorry)

But i don't want to hijack this GWR thread!

Mike

 

[Dog Star]

For those who may have an interest, Pete Speller (@Pete_S) has explored the image of the Gloucester van and noted the Swindon paint date as (likely to be) "Sn 27 9 32", see below:-


The painter's name is lost in the mists of time.

 

[Dog Star]

On a positive note another S7 modeller in the local area, Chris (@ChrisBr) has provided details of the buffers that Slaters includes in their GWR open wagon kits (the ex-Coopercraft 7mm range). The Slaters parts are a steel buffer ram with threaded end, spring, brass buffer stock and a nut... very similar to the arrangement for sprung buffers as fitted to MR wagons and PO wagons. If there is a downside then it is that the parts as supplied in the GWR open wagon kits do not include the flange at the base of the buffer stock - that part of the stock is included as part of the moulded headstock.

Time to ask David White for a packet of goodies and some of the flange mouldings which are used with the 7mm MR wagons.

 

[Wagonman]

I know next to nothing about the GWR but I see the kit comes with four-shoe brakes. Both the photos show vans in very late condition but neither has brakes on the second side. I also seem to recall that the iron Minks never had a full second set of brakes. So, did these vans ever have four-shoe brakes?

Mike

As Graham says, these wooden Minks never received a second set of brakes though some GWR vehicles of roughly comparable vintage did get an extra 'half set' of brakes in order to comply with the either-side brake regulations. I've not seen too many models with 3-shoe brakes...

Richard