Is this kit any good?
- Thread starter Nick Dunhill
- Start date
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Had a bit of t'interweb trawl and the kit's provenance is DJB/Meteor.
If the etches haven't been revised then it should be better than the in-house designed ACE kits.
If the etches haven't been revised then it should be better than the in-house designed ACE kits.
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Meteor kits are still pretty bad.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Found a quote (have to scroll down the page to the 14th photo) on this website describing the DJB SR N as 'I found this D.J.B. kit quite a difficult build with a lot of "adjust as it goes". The end result though is a good strong build and a good looking. A nice model of one of Mr Maunsell's best'.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Nick
I haven't built that kit, but I did build a DJB standard class 3, it had only one annoying fault in that the radius rod was too long for the valve gear to work, I had one of those kits that didn't have a note inside telling you that.
Other than that it went together well, I found forming the cab was tricky.
Richard
I haven't built that kit, but I did build a DJB standard class 3, it had only one annoying fault in that the radius rod was too long for the valve gear to work, I had one of those kits that didn't have a note inside telling you that.
Other than that it went together well, I found forming the cab was tricky.
Richard
simond
Western Thunderer
Is it a “Q”? If so, I rather think I did build one, back in 2005 or 2006, for the late Ken Stansfield. He was an excellent modeller but had become too ill to build it himself, so I had a go.
To be honest, I really don’t remember much about it, I think it went together, the end result worked, and it looked ok, but beyond that.…. And I borrowed Ken’s books, so have no references.
sorry, not much help.
To be honest, I really don’t remember much about it, I think it went together, the end result worked, and it looked ok, but beyond that.…. And I borrowed Ken’s books, so have no references.
sorry, not much help.
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Sigh, I knew this would be the case. There are far too many flawed kits on the market.
If you're building for fun at home you'll have the time to develope a kit like this into a very nice model, one that you can be proud of. You'll be able to post on WT, thrilling us all, with stories about overcoming adversity.
If you're building for fun commercially, this kind of kit is a bloody big poo floating in a Conservative river. Firstly, the client will, understandably, want a reasonable estimate of how much the job will cost. Now I'm sure that, out there, there must be a Meteor/Ace/DJB etc etc kit that'll go together sans traumatisme (see Infinate Monkey Theorum,) but my money isn't on that. My client will have assumed that (s)he's bought a product that will be able to be built into the advertised model, in keeping with the Sale of Goods Act 1979. My assumption is that it won't, but really no one will know for sure until I start building the bloody thing.
All of a sudden a 250 hr job becomes a 400+ hr build. At this point one of two things happen. Either the client shrugs their shoulders and pays a hefty bill, grumbling under their breath, and goes home to stick voodoo pins in an effigy of the kit designer, manufacturer or both. Or I work long into the night for free gnashing my teeth together, and I have to get up early the next morning, to walk into the Peak District National Park, to trap soya rabbits to feed my family because the money has run out. FYI the latter will not happen.
It's worth remembering that if you want a Meteor/Ace/DJB etc etc kit building by someone reputable, the first sentence of the last paragraph will mainly apply. Or, perhaps we get the designer and/or manufacturer to pay for the additional 150+ hours work, that may focus their minds......?
If you're building for fun at home you'll have the time to develope a kit like this into a very nice model, one that you can be proud of. You'll be able to post on WT, thrilling us all, with stories about overcoming adversity.
If you're building for fun commercially, this kind of kit is a bloody big poo floating in a Conservative river. Firstly, the client will, understandably, want a reasonable estimate of how much the job will cost. Now I'm sure that, out there, there must be a Meteor/Ace/DJB etc etc kit that'll go together sans traumatisme (see Infinate Monkey Theorum,) but my money isn't on that. My client will have assumed that (s)he's bought a product that will be able to be built into the advertised model, in keeping with the Sale of Goods Act 1979. My assumption is that it won't, but really no one will know for sure until I start building the bloody thing.
All of a sudden a 250 hr job becomes a 400+ hr build. At this point one of two things happen. Either the client shrugs their shoulders and pays a hefty bill, grumbling under their breath, and goes home to stick voodoo pins in an effigy of the kit designer, manufacturer or both. Or I work long into the night for free gnashing my teeth together, and I have to get up early the next morning, to walk into the Peak District National Park, to trap soya rabbits to feed my family because the money has run out. FYI the latter will not happen.
It's worth remembering that if you want a Meteor/Ace/DJB etc etc kit building by someone reputable, the first sentence of the last paragraph will mainly apply. Or, perhaps we get the designer and/or manufacturer to pay for the additional 150+ hours work, that may focus their minds......?
Last edited:
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Well, my third loco kit needed a fair amount of rework to make it go together. I have had email exchanges with the manufacturer for two anomalies, and so far I know that "it should be obvious the instructions are wrong" and "I am the first person in 30 years to mention this". So as a hobbyist, I know my place.
I have learnt, the hard way, if a kit is thirty-odd years old this does not imply it has has had decades of design development and refinement. Nothing of the sort; rather it is a cash cow for the manufacturer and a trap for the innocent. After my model is finished I can tell him about my 28 further corrections (maybe more of course!) including my completely new parts. Supposing he replies, I'll refine my opinion of how much he cares about his product and his customers; and of course pop up a summary of my findings on WT.
I imagine, manufacturers only get away with this because their primary customers are hobbyists who are prepared to learn skills and give unlimited time to sort things out. No other retail product this bad would survive. It's hard to imagine why a professional builder would touch one - yes they have the skills but they will either starve or risk harming their reputation.
I have learnt, the hard way, if a kit is thirty-odd years old this does not imply it has has had decades of design development and refinement. Nothing of the sort; rather it is a cash cow for the manufacturer and a trap for the innocent. After my model is finished I can tell him about my 28 further corrections (maybe more of course!) including my completely new parts. Supposing he replies, I'll refine my opinion of how much he cares about his product and his customers; and of course pop up a summary of my findings on WT.
I imagine, manufacturers only get away with this because their primary customers are hobbyists who are prepared to learn skills and give unlimited time to sort things out. No other retail product this bad would survive. It's hard to imagine why a professional builder would touch one - yes they have the skills but they will either starve or risk harming their reputation.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
When comes to kits of questionable provenance such as the ones mentioned here could you not agree your fees with the client after seeing the etches and instructions rather than the box lid and description?
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave
That's kind of where I go. I end up giving a best and worst case estimate.
Nick
That's kind of where I go. I end up giving a best and worst case estimate.
Nick
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
This is one of the reasons I started designing my own kits. I was feed up of buying something and then finding I have to fudge things or completely redesigned parts to get them to work. I have a number of my kits that have not gone together when I have built the prototype that have had to be completely redesigned. And one that is on its 6th go. If I can't build something and make a good job of it before I sell it it doesn't get sold.
As for produced development I think I only have about 10 kits that are in their original form the rest have been either completely redesigned or at least tweaked over the last ten years.
For example the latest wagon getting upgraded is my NER(CD) P5 hopper. It's now a one piece resin block and I'm working on a version that has automatic operating bottom doors so it will discharge it's load and then the doors then close.
You can't stand still, you need to take customer feed back and make sure the next one is better than the last.
Marc
As for produced development I think I only have about 10 kits that are in their original form the rest have been either completely redesigned or at least tweaked over the last ten years.
For example the latest wagon getting upgraded is my NER(CD) P5 hopper. It's now a one piece resin block and I'm working on a version that has automatic operating bottom doors so it will discharge it's load and then the doors then close.
You can't stand still, you need to take customer feed back and make sure the next one is better than the last.
Marc
simond
Western Thunderer
I suppose a price list based on past experience.
At one end “goes together as designed without hassle and with no custom features”: X hours @ £rate
At the other end “ACE kit of unknown providence “ 5X hours at £rate plus danger money.
Or simply say “no, sorry, those kits are not economic value”, but who wants to turn down business?
At one end “goes together as designed without hassle and with no custom features”: X hours @ £rate
At the other end “ACE kit of unknown providence “ 5X hours at £rate plus danger money.
Or simply say “no, sorry, those kits are not economic value”, but who wants to turn down business?
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon
Well some folk are happy to pay whatever the cost. Others, rightly, start to get nervous. I often end up getting a bit stressed trying very hard to finish it as quickly as possible to keep the cost down. It's a difficult situation because I have to balance quality with urgency.
Nightmare.
Nick
Well some folk are happy to pay whatever the cost. Others, rightly, start to get nervous. I often end up getting a bit stressed trying very hard to finish it as quickly as possible to keep the cost down. It's a difficult situation because I have to balance quality with urgency.
Nightmare.
Nick
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
It comes down to a cost-quality triangle. If you want something of high quality you have to pay. If you want something cheap then you get junk. In the same way if you want something very few people have then again you have to put your hand in your pocket or you have to put up with items that everyone else has.
You could always quote as if you were going to scratch build it and if you can use any of the parts that's a bonus.
Marc
You could always quote as if you were going to scratch build it and if you can use any of the parts that's a bonus.
Marc
Rob R
Western Thunderer
Worst case estimate -"Unbuildable. Please take it away"
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
I have 3 Furness Railway 0-6-0 locos from two different manufacturers both are not correct if I build them according to their instructions. The tenders are ok but I'm going to have to produce no boilers, smoke boxes and fire boxes at least.
Do people not look at a GA before starting their designs?
Marc
Do people not look at a GA before starting their designs?
Marc