Is this kit any good?

[mickoo]

Just say no, being self employed that's a very hard thing to do, but you need to for yourself, existing clients and the one in question.

I do not touch Meteor, DJB, ACE and Mercian any more, the client simply cannot afford it, it's a brutal reality but the sooner its aired the sooner people can get over it and move on.

If the client insists and is really keen, then I offer bespoke etches and scratch building, 9/10 that actually works out cheaper in the long run but it is very hard to convince them when you're starting out on a project that's the best way to go.

Regarding the Q, from what I've heard on the urban beat, it's a pile of the etches are workable but the castings are poor and some are not even supplied.

All of the above is from a pure commercial aspect, as Nick notes, if you're a hobbyist and have an abundance of spare time (there is no such thing....it's a myth) then the kits fill a gap.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

I agree with Fraser (Overseer) only a small number of kits available go together without 'encouragement.' The one I'm currently building has it's origins with Meteor so is really shit, but luckily there's a vast acreage of waste etch with which to remake pieces.

 

[Pugsley]

If you're building for fun at home you'll have the time to develop a kit like this into a very nice model, one that you can be proud of. You'll be able to post on WT, thrilling us all, with stories about overcoming adversity.

I think that's overrated I don't mind adding ever smaller details to a model to improve it, but the base model should at least be buildable into a decent representation. I've only got so much time for modelling and adversity slows you right down.

If I can't build something and make a good job of it before I sell it it doesn't get sold.

If only every manufacturer thought that way!

It comes down to a cost-quality triangle. If you want something of high quality you have to pay. If you want something cheap then you get junk.

And unfortunately sometimes you end up with expensive junk.

 

[76043]

Agreed on the time aspect for the home Modeller. There isn't enough time, which is why RTR bashing is my only option along with plastic kit making. I genuinely don't have the time for brass kits.
Tony

 

[simond]

The late Chris Klein admonished me a few years back with the old line “it’s a journey not a destination”. Certainly applies to my current modelling…

 

[76043]

Railway modellers do seem to have drawn the short stick, we have to build the whole lot and make it all work. I'm due to exhibit at the forthcoming Key Model World multi disciplinary show at the NEC and will hopefully see if it's true.

Of course if you just want to stick that loco in a display case, facing point locks are the wrong sort of locks for your cabinet.
Tony

 

[Hayfield1]

Agreed on the time aspect for the home Modeller. There isn't enough time, which is why RTR bashing is my only option along with plastic kit making. I genuinely don't have the time for brass kits.
Tony

That is why I enjoy whitemetal loco kits, simply I have not had enough practice bending sheet metal

 

[adrian]

Just say no, being self employed that's a very hard thing to do, but you need to for yourself, existing clients and the one in question.

Agreed it is very hard to do when you want to keep a healthy order book. An alternative is an approach I persuaded my Dad to take when he was scratch building to order many years ago. He had a 3 year back log and was working long hours as he was honouring prices quoted originally. He then got an request to quote for building a 14xx. He didn't really want the extra work so I told him simply to double his usual quote, if he didn't get the job it was no loss. IIRC instead of £400-£500 I think he quoted £900 (1980's) - the guy was a Swiss collector and accepted the quote. Needless to say his job got priority and he went on to become one my Dad's best customers ordering at least a dozen locos over the years and it was part of the Summer holidays delivering the loco to the customer who lived in Geneva.

 

[Arun Sharma]

Whilst I'm not going to pretend that the kits I design are the best on the market...... They were sold with a set of instructions that is essentially a sequence of captioned photographs showing an actual build all the way through. I have come across kits that to my mind have probably never had a test build. I believe that if every kit had a set of instructions of this type and freely downloadable, the number of [probably] unbuildable kits would be reduced in terms of number extant and number sold. It wouldn't of course prevent dimensionally inaccurate kits from being sold but at least they would be buildable.....

 

[simond]

But I understand that the likes of Ace threatened the Guild with legal action for criticism that was likely justified.

It’s laughable based on my observations, but would still cost money to defend. Who wants to waste their time, money and stress levels in that kind of argument?

So shit kits are still sold, and very few are willing to call the makers out.

In the end, the poor novice ends up with a kit (s)he can’t build, or a substantial bill to get it finished, and we likely lose another recruit to the hobby.

Difficult.

 

[Tim Watson]

I have a whole range of different projects involving more or less scratch building input. However, I am looking forward to making a (hopefully) straightforward MOK S7 Merchant Navy, when available, which shouldn’t require too much input from my end. Sometimes it is just good to have an easy ride - not saying that I won’t find some way of complicating it though…

Tim

 

[Pencarrow]

Funny you should mention 1366’s…

Spawn of satan

 

[chigley]

it is good though to get out of auto mode and use the grey matter occasionally

Ken

 

[James Spooner]

But I understand that the likes of Ace threatened the Guild with legal action for criticism that was likely justified.

It’s laughable based on my observations, but would still cost money to defend. Who wants to waste their time, money and stress levels in that kind of argument?

So shit kits are still sold, and very few are willing to call the makers out.

In the end, the poor novice ends up with a kit (s)he can’t build, or a substantial bill to get it finished, and we likely lose another recruit to the hobby.

Difficult.

Simon,

Just got back from the TLC of Wales and read this. I couldn’t agree more. There was a time when the likes of MRJ would do a full constructional article on a kit and, inter alia, point out the issues with it. It is very difficult for a manufacturer to argue with that, let alone sue. I think a part of the issue in the magazine world, at any rate, is that the publishers depend on advertising revenue from said manufacturers and so give reviews etc through rose tinted spectacle.

Nigel

 

[adrian]

I think a part of the issue in the magazine world, at any rate, is that the publishers depend on advertising revenue from said manufacturers and so give reviews etc through rose tinted spectacle.

Another reason I like to keep WT free of any commercial influence. Quite happy to publish and host any unvarnished reviews of kits as long as they are impartial and fair. That said - as many kits are from small enterprises I will support them as much as possible and will always have a fair right to reply to any criticisms.

 

[mickoo]

Criticism is hard, I think if you're factual and emotion free then it can be carried off.

It's also important to separate factual faults from subjective faults.

A factual fault is where (for example) a fold up cab front and sides, with a tabbed base, comes out at 52 mm wide, yet the slots in the footplate are set to 50 mm wide. That's fair criticism and the seller has to take that on the chin.

Subjective is much harder, a couple of examples I've had (and aired) are the MOK King Arthur and recent Scorpio 850.

The King Arthur boiler has internal formers with tabs that protrude through the wrapper to aid forming, very good idea but the tabs are mid panel and need dressing back; often needing filling with low melt to make smooth with the surrounding sheet. On a high gloss curved surface this takes some attention or else it will show in the final paint work.

You cannot criticize the kit for this fault as it does fit, it does work and can be made good with a little effort, therefore it's subjective, it works but may not be how you would do it or prefer. Ideally the internal formers could be placed under where the boiler bands are so they become hidden later and require less work.

The 850 pannier is formed from 0.4 mm brass sheet, it's very thick and hard work, many complain about this but it's subjective because it can be done; though it requires a different skill set and experience so the choice of material is not really a fault with the kit. Ideally it needs to be in 0.3 or 0.25 mm material but that will mean a bespoke sheet of a different thickness and additional cost and packing for each kit.

I also aired an observation about the bunker flair fingers being poor and over etched, on social media the owner picked this up and after comparison with my etch and ones he had in boxes, conceded that my etch was very poor and apologized. Again a subjective observation, not good but workable.

So long as you clearly lay out the observations are subjective and your own personal view then it's hard for the kit manufacture to argue with you, adding possible solutions will also help your cause. Similarly if the tabs do not line up with the slots or the firebox is too short, boiler too long then there is no argument either as these are factual.

The final problem is age, some of these kits are 40+ years old and back in the day cutting edge; far better than what came before or scratch building so that has to be a consideration.

 

[Genghis]

Criticism is hard, I think if you're factual and emotion free then it can be carried off.

Absolutely: and it is essential. With kit ranges having passed through several hands the current seller - eg me! - may not know the ins and outs of the range.

 

[mickoo]

One thing I forgot to mention is shelf life, many kits I've worked on have been stood in dark corners for decades or changed hands many times, there have been times during a build where there was an issue which had since been rectified with previous sales.

It's dangerous to assume your 30-40 year old kit is exactly the same today...often it is but occasionally it's not and has been revised /updated.

 

[Sheffield]

I would suggest one reason magazines no longer build a kit and publish the results is that it is not quick or cheap to build most kits. Publishers do not like that.

 

[Pete McFarlane]

I have had email exchanges with the manufacturer for two anomalies, and so far I know that .... "I am the first person in 30 years to mention this".

Maybe you were the first person in 30 years to get that far into the build without giving up?