4mm KMRC GW Steam Railmotor

[Joe's Garage]

Hi Fellow WTs
Firstly this is not a question that should be on the "other" channel but a purely genuine enquiry regarding the long awaited GW SRM. Two simple questions.
Has any member attempted replacing the wheel sets to P4 or EM?
Has anyone attempted renumbering the said vehicle? Without my access to The Abbotsbury Branch by Brian Jackson I believe that some SRMs ran during the period to mid WW1 but not No. 85 which is available still in Crimson. Is it possible to replace numbers without destroying the rather nice paint work?
Thank you
Julian

 

[Overseer]

Hi Fellow WTs
Firstly this is not a question that should be on the "other" channel but a purely genuine enquiry regarding the long awaited GW SRM. Two simple questions.
Has any member attempted replacing the wheel sets to P4 or EM?
Has anyone attempted renumbering the said vehicle? Without my access to The Abbotsbury Branch by Brian Jackson I believe that some SRMs ran during the period to mid WW1 but not No. 85 which is available still in Crimson. Is it possible to replace numbers without destroying the rather nice paint work?
Thank you
Julian

I would have been interested in a finescale conversion but lost interest in the model when I realised that the window sizes and spacings were all over the place on the early samples, and they haven't been corrected in the production models. I would like to be proved wrong but I don't think it is possible to produce an accurate model from this, even if the gauge is corrected.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I would have been interested in a finescale conversion but lost interest in the model when I realised that the window sizes and spacings were all over the place on the early samples, and they haven't been corrected in the production models. I would like to be proved wrong but I don't think it is possible to produce an accurate model from this, even if the gauge is corrected.

The window sizes look like a throwback to the 1950's Triang coaches.

 

[simond]

It’s a shame when a manufacturer gets it so wrong - I recall a bad tempered discussion on RMW about Dapol’s 6W milk tanks, where Adrian Swain was roundly condemned for pointing out their manifold errors - but given that the tooling costs of “doing it right” are going to be a rounding error more than “doing it wrong”, I can see no reason for not taking care to get it as good as the technology will allow. Surely it isn’t a lack of information?

 

[ullypug]

I remember having a conversation with Graham Muspratt who is involved with Kernow models about this. He seemed to think the valve gear wouldn’t allow finescale conversion and I cancelled my order accordingly

 

[Joe's Garage]

Wow that does not bode well for such a fine looking model, I had been following this since the proposed launch. Is it really that wrong?
Sorry if question is not allowed on this forum but my drive to get started on something resembling Abbotsbury keeps getting sidelined with such compromises.
Thanks for the replies.
Julian

 

[Joe's Garage]

Maybe the Worsley etched body for such a vehicle is a better option....S scale?

 

[Overseer]

Is it really that wrong?

The answer to that question is something you will have to make your own mind up about. An issue is the windows are too narrow and the pillars too wide so the model does not look as open as the prototype. I didn't follow it at the time but there was some discussion on RMWeb - Kernow GWR steam rail motor Use of a tape measure and eyeball instead of laser scanning would have produced a better outcome.

Etched sides might be an answer, but not easy or cheap.

 

[simond]

The answer to that question is something you will have to make your own mind up about. An issue is the windows are too narrow and the pillars too wide so the model does not look as open as the prototype. I didn't follow it at the time but there was some discussion on RMWeb - Kernow GWR steam rail motor Use of a tape measure and eyeball instead of laser scanning would have produced a better outcome.

Etched sides might be an answer, but not easy or cheap.

And the paint job would need to be redone, which might be the killer.

 

[LarryG]

The model is fully 3-dimentional with raised window bolections, something you wont get on half-etch brass. As for window spacing, it would be a shame if the window spacing is wildly out but, for me, that wouldn't be a deal breaker knowing what is involved in building one from a kit. The Kernow model runs well from what I saw on Sam's Trains channel, which again is most likely more than can be said for many kit-built models, and the paint job beats anything a pro painter could produce.

I suspect most buyers will be satisfied. Can it be converted to EM or P4. I dunno.

 

[J_F_S]

I rather agree with Larry.

Without wishing to criticise Simon, I think it is much too easy to say that it would be as easy to do it right as wrong: that overlooks the fact that these things are made as a plastic injection moulding - which the real thing most certainly was not! The needs for draw angle, to resist high pressures, and acheive acceptable flow / shrinkage rates within the mould cavity is often the limiting driver of finished dimensions - not least if unnaceptable wasteage is to be avoided. Careless mistakes CAN and do occur, but often, manufacturers have had to accept compromises of which we are unaware. Whilst I cannot say that was the issue in this particular case, I am willing to give manufacturers the benefit of the doubt as the model is a lot better than I could scratch-build!!

All processes have their limitations - including the "2D" effect of etched metal - a compromise which I think we are much too ready to accept and which really does look bad on a model like this. And separately etched bolections are a right bv**@r to solder accurately!

Howard

 

[Overseer]

and the paint job beats anything a pro painter could produce.

Without wanting to prolong this discussion I can't let this statement go unchallenged. I would personally rate the paint job on the crimson version as poor - colour not really close to the preserved one, should be gloss and the lining is at least 4x the width it should be. Larry would have produced a far better paint job on the model, and did so every day of the week for many years.

There is nothing wrong with the toolmaking and overall quality of the model. Injection moulding is ideal for panelled carriages as the draw angle replicates the shape of the prototype mouldings. The issue is that the information provided to the toolmaker for the sides was completely wrong. How this happened I have no idea and don't need to know.

 

[LarryG]

Thanks Overseer. Re. the steam railmotor, it looks like the manufacturer has placed the window bolections inside of the line depicting the actual window aperture, so reducing the glazed area. Had the bolections been where they should be, the increased gap between the windows would not exist. I wonder why it was signed off, although I can guess why.

 

[AJC]

Thanks Overseer. Re. the steam railmotor, it looks like the manufacturer has placed the window bolections inside of the line depicting the actual window aperture, so reducing the glazed area. Had the bolections been where they should be, the increased gap between the windows would not exist. I wonder why it was signed off, although I can guess why.

Quite a common type of error (see, for example the Ratio SR concrete hut which is too narrow across the ends - between the two vertical members (I assume that, somehow, an inside distance was translated into an outside distance - the roof is the right width!), or, in 4mm, the class 14 bufferbeam which adds length because the thickness of the beam wasn't accounted for. I'm sure that there are other examples around windows but I can't place them offhand.

In the case of the railmotor it is quite noticeable even at a fairly casual glance.

Adam

 

[Joe's Garage]

Thank you to all above comments and it shows that the trade are willing to gamble and fund on such prototypes, something I am glad of as the RTR models today are both extensive in types and overall excellent models. Without their commitment we wouldn't have this availability.
My main quest was purely to see if such a purchase would satisfy my need for a one day Abbotsbury.
I would suggest therefore that we leave this thread as it stands and enjoy seeing these running on many layouts at exhibitions/in magazines/on a friend's layout in the future.
Thank you again
Julian

 

[LarryG]

Just like to add that it might make an interesting conversion to an A26 push-pull trailer conversion using 3D parts to replace the boiler end. I think 7' Plate bogies replaced the American bogie.

 

[John TAYLOR]

Of course, if you go into the realms of O gauge you could build a Scorpio kit !!!



....and it`s nice little engine... that never gets seen....except on service days.



....... but it is a challenge to build....

 

[Joe's Garage]

John, that is beautiful, just out of curiosity what is the station building behind. I know it is a W. Clark but any particular prototype?
Cheers
Julian

 

[John TAYLOR]

John, that is beautiful, just out of curiosity what is the station building behind. I know it is a W. Clark but any particular prototype?
Cheers
Julian

Thankyou Julian,

It is Invertrain Models resin kit of Portesham in Dorset. I built a more prototypical rendition of the canopy and reworked the stonework with dental drills. Otherwise it is an over priced poorly cast kit.....

 

[Joe's Garage]

Yes John, I did look at the Abbotsbury engine shed but was put off by the price!!
Is Scorpio still trading?
Cheers Julian