7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Next,
Well funny you should ask, the 47xx will go for paint in a few weeks or so and the A2 will come back from paint at the same time, where upon it will be reassembled, back head and motion fitted and test run in before delivery.
In the ensuing days I've two more projects. First is artwork, etches and build for a Collect Restaurant car though that won't go on this log until the etches are back and the build process begins.
The other project is a BR(M) Beyer Garratt with rotary bunker which I picked up from a new client this very morning
Work will start on that in the next few days once the final few pieces are done on the 47xx.It's an old kit so there will no doubt be opportunities to upgrade here and there.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Snap, Mick. I have one of those. JM Models I guess. I'll be interested to see your build. I built a JM LMS 3F many years ago. Quite a basic kit but it went together very well. Shades of Connoisseur perhaps, although obviously nothing to do with Jim. Just one of those kits which shows what can be done at a reasonable price.
Brian
Brian
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
That does appear to be a no brainer Nick
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Purple-haze
Western Thunderer
Chris,wots Nick done to deserve that
regards Rog
regards Rog
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Already do that
, the W1 comes with insulated brake blocks and so will the B1 
Its easy to do with green field projects, not so with hacking old ones, you basically need new plain hangers, an etch is the way to go but prohibitive in price for just one model.Another item that appeals to me are domes, theres nearly always a flash line to clean up and they often end up lopsided or not perfectly smooth and circular. The B1 took 10 min to draw, just under 2 hours to print at a high resolution and about 3 mins to clean up. The end result was a perfect fit first time; I'm struggling to see any downsides yet
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I've not looked in the box yet, one dog, one bone.
It is JM models and I suspect you're right, the client has asked for it to be upgraded where possible, within reason
. Without opening the box I'd hazard the following will be possible candidates for attention, smoke box door, back head, dome, it'll probably need a good revamp in the cab fittings area and injectors and I suspect the pony trucks are going to be a bit vanilla. The cylinder fittings might need some attention, maybe new valve gear, with four sets required it'll be faster and cheaper in man hours to etch new than clean up and struggle with whats in there.....just guessing, it may actually be very good.
I've not yet looked for a GA, not sure if NRM are even open for ordering on line, if the Garratt drawings are even there or digitised, a pipe and rod would be very handy as I suspect it's going to be cluttered in and around the engine pivots and that area is viewable from the centre of the engine looking fore and aft.
But, we'll see, like the recent A2, this is one I am looking forward to building, especially as it's got the rotary bunker and especially as my SAR Garratt bubble is still loitering around.
JimG
Western Thunderer
Mick,
The good news is that here are five drawings in the NRM OPC list - Nos 7802 - 7806. Two are GAs of the front and rear ends, one with three cross sections, a boiler pipe arrangement, and the arrangement of the hind tank and rotary bunker. The bad news is that the NRM are locked down at the moment - well they were when I last checked a couple of weeks ago.
Jim.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I've collected a few books about the Midland Garratts, Mick. I'll see if any of the included drawings may help.
Brian
Brian
simond
Western Thunderer
If it’s anything like my garratt, it’ll need new frames & everything else below the footplates, including valve gear, and a host of other bits. Still, I knew what I was taking on, and I’m doing it for fun. (And the story’s on t’other channel). I’m learning lots about CNC machining which can’t be a bad thing.
Pencarrow Chris’ comments are thought provoking. I don’t think it’s “the old guard” pulling up the ladder behind them, I think it’s more a risk-benefit balance that some (Alan, Phil, and others) are prepared to invest their time, effort & livelihoods in, in order to “improve the breed”.
I still like soldered brass, and happily solder w/m too, but I readily recognise that well designed plastics, stuck together with appropriate adhesives may be a much better technical solution to the problems we set ourselves. And having a baby laser, I’m learning what can, and cannot, be made from 2D shapes in materials that cut well using that kind of tool. Card, MDF, and Perspex offer themselves as suitable media, and Trotec is apparently a good substitute for plasticard.
I keep coming back to the concept of a universal 3-axis tool to which multiple work heads can be attached, laser, miller, rivet press, pin cutter (look at the model aircraft forums) and I’m sure additional axes and other tools could be included. Availability of something like that, coupled with high-fidelity 3D printers, would mean that kits could be made available as downloads, though I’m not sure how the creator gets recompensed, the financial model may need some thinking about.
And in any case, the 47 is lovely, and I’m looking forward to the next one.
Atb
Simon
Pencarrow Chris’ comments are thought provoking. I don’t think it’s “the old guard” pulling up the ladder behind them, I think it’s more a risk-benefit balance that some (Alan, Phil, and others) are prepared to invest their time, effort & livelihoods in, in order to “improve the breed”.
I still like soldered brass, and happily solder w/m too, but I readily recognise that well designed plastics, stuck together with appropriate adhesives may be a much better technical solution to the problems we set ourselves. And having a baby laser, I’m learning what can, and cannot, be made from 2D shapes in materials that cut well using that kind of tool. Card, MDF, and Perspex offer themselves as suitable media, and Trotec is apparently a good substitute for plasticard.
I keep coming back to the concept of a universal 3-axis tool to which multiple work heads can be attached, laser, miller, rivet press, pin cutter (look at the model aircraft forums) and I’m sure additional axes and other tools could be included. Availability of something like that, coupled with high-fidelity 3D printers, would mean that kits could be made available as downloads, though I’m not sure how the creator gets recompensed, the financial model may need some thinking about.
And in any case, the 47 is lovely, and I’m looking forward to the next one.
Atb
Simon
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Cheers Brian, I have the Essery, Book of' and the locomotives illustrated, not sure of any others, if there are, let me know the titles and I'll acquire them.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Cheers, I'll get them anyway, I like Garratts, hell you never know, one might pass over my CAD desk at some pointMick,
The good news is that here are five drawings in the NRM OPC list - Nos 7802 - 7806. Two are GAs of the front and rear ends, one with three cross sections, a boiler pipe arrangement, and the arrangement of the hind tank and rotary bunker. The bad news is that the NRM are locked down at the moment - well they were when I last checked a couple of weeks ago.
Jim.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
My references are: "The Book of the LM Garratts" by Ian Sixsmith. Pub Irwell Press. It looks like you have this. I also have "LMS & LNER Garratts" by RJ Essery and G Toms in the Historical Locomotive Monographs No1 ISBN 0 906 867 93 2. Pub by Wild Swan. Decent photos but only one very small GA - the better GA is in "The Book of", but even that's not a great help I suspect. As you have an Essery reference it may be this one.
There's also an article in Steam Days, August 1995. A few reasonable photos.
I hope that's of some help but I suspect you already have these with the possible exception of the Steam Days.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
It sounds like it's going to take some work that's for sure; but thanks anyway for putting the gent in touch with me, very much appreciated
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian, you're right, bar the steam days magazine I have the others, I know BRILL did a big spread, but being as they are the same company as Book of' then I doubt there's little point dragging through my mags to find it, it'll be the same images and information.
There will be a lot of pouring over images with magnifying glasses, the ash pan hopper front, pipes and linkages under there are hard to discern at the moment.
A quick search of my usual haunts did turn up this cracking shot on Flickr
London Midland & Scottish Railway - LMS "Beyer Garratt" type 2-6-0+0-6-2 steam locomotive Nr. 4997 (Beyer Peacock Locomotive Works, Manchester-Gorton, 1927) by Historical Railway Images, on FlickrIt's LMS days and has a small front tank, it also has pony truck brakes, these went quite early on and later batches, most certainly all rotaries had larger front tanks.
It's also the best photo I've found of the ashpan hopper front, infuriatingly with the doors open, nice detail but I need them shut.
another oddity is the rear beam across the rear of the engines, initially this was not there, later an additional sand box was fitted here, so the photo is rare as it's clearly in the transition from early six sand box set up to later eight box set up.
I also grabbed some roster shots from Rail-Online Beyer-Garratt and there's another pay/download site as well I need to trawl, but their name escapes me right now.....
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
JB,
You could be right, but at the moment I'm more inclined to think there's a left and right hopper, the pipework travelling between the two of them. It's a bit clearer if you go to the Flickr page and then select the extra large image. If I had similar high definition images from the other three corners then I'd be well on our way.
The more I look the more I find, I like this part of a new project, research and learning, besides, it's LMS, what's not to like, except maybe it's a Derby design and not Crewe
They certainly appear to be amply covered by photographers, I suppose they would be, they're certain exotic and reasonably long lived.
The model criteria is 6' curves, I'm glad it's not S7 as I think the trailing drivers would surely foul the boiler bed plate
You could be right, but at the moment I'm more inclined to think there's a left and right hopper, the pipework travelling between the two of them. It's a bit clearer if you go to the Flickr page and then select the extra large image. If I had similar high definition images from the other three corners then I'd be well on our way.
The more I look the more I find, I like this part of a new project, research and learning, besides, it's LMS, what's not to like, except maybe it's a Derby design and not Crewe
They certainly appear to be amply covered by photographers, I suppose they would be, they're certain exotic and reasonably long lived.
The model criteria is 6' curves, I'm glad it's not S7 as I think the trailing drivers would surely foul the boiler bed plate