MK1 Suburban Coaches

S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hi Everyone
Hope you all had a great xmas can anybody clear something up for me please, when the Southern Region used BR Suburban non corridor MK1 stock were they the 57ft or 58ft length coaches?
As I would like to represent the Kenny Belle service from Clapham Junction too Kensington in London already have a Standard 3 Tank just need to make up the coach rake
As Ellis Clark Trains do the O gauge 57 footers and I have a MMP kit for a 58 footer.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Not sure on the coach lengths that may of been used but the Eastern region apparently were the only ones to use the lavatory equipped Mk1 non corridor coaches.
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
As alluded to in @76043 's link the Southern Region did not have any allocaton BR Mk1 57' suburban coaches. They were only allocated the 64' variant.

As far as I know there there no 7mm models of the 64' Mk1 suburban coach available - only 57' which means an expensive cut 'n' shut of the Ellis Clarke 57' models. A four into three scenario :eek:.


76043 said:
58' is not a length I've read about.
Click to expand...

The 58' referred to here in the 'Kenny Belle' is the Restriction 1 Maunsell Corridor Brake Second - effectively the 8'6'' wide 'Thanet' stock without duckets.

In it's later days this train was formed of 3 Mk1 64' suburban and a Maunsell Restriction 1 Corridor Brake Second.



For the non-Southern Railway/Region modeller there were 6 classifications of coaching stock depending upon the route availibility determined by the coach origin and to which loading gauge it was orignally built to. Bluebell Railway - Carriage Technical Pages - Restrictions

The most common being:
Restriction 0: 8' wide (Hastings via Tunbride Wells)
Restriction 1: 8' 6'' wide (brake coaches had no duckets)
Restriction 4: 9' wide (classic Maunsell brake coaches with straight sided guards compartment with duckets)
 
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hi people
Thank you for your replies and yes I stand corrected the article I was sent showed the coaches had 10 compartments which explains the coach length, after looking at a piece of DVD footage showing the Kenny Belle in action I spotted my oversight in relation to the number of compartments per coach, oh well, I have a MMP MK1 non corridor open second suburban coach kit which only has 9 compartments I will build it, I hope some one takes over MMP kits as I would like two more kits as they are lovely {maybe some people will not notice the short fall so to speak} with the rake and I am not experienced enough to do a cut and shut job.

Many thanks,

Paul.
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
For your brake coach Slaters produce a Maunsell Brake third coach 7mm kit. However, this is to diagram 2102 which is restriction 4 (9' wide) with the flat sided guards compartment and duckets. For the 'Kenny Belle' you would require diagram 2103/2104 which is restriction 1 (8' 6'' wide) without duckets and the guards compartment follows the coach profile.

From photos it looks like you can throw together a rake of any ex-SR coaching stock to form the 'Kenny Belle' this train in steam days providing a nice eclectic mix. This would give an excellent excuse for having sole representative carriages from the SR - Bulleid, Maunsell; and SECR - 60' steam hauled ten compartmemt 3rd and the articulated set 513 rebuilt from the carriage portions of the ex-SECR steam railmotors.
 
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hi Yorkshire Dave
Thank you so much for the information, very interesting,I recently purchased a Lionheart Standard 3 Tank loco RTR for the money I think they are good value so have motive power just need the train will check to see if CRT Kits may do the correct diagram Maunsell Brake coach kit as his kits are brass which I prefer.
Hope everyone has a good new year celebration.

Kind regards,

Paul.
 
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hello Yorkshire Dave
Forgot to mention if if the Maunsell Brake Third Corridor Coach would of had low or high windows for the Kenny Belle service?.

Regards,

Paul.
 
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hi Yorkshire Dave
CRT Kits do not do Diagram 2103/4 Maunsell Brake Third coach kit but they do a SR Thanet Brake Third at the right width restriction and no duckets was wondering if I could use this coach as a substitute.

Paul.
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Hi Paul

The history of the ex-SR brake coaches used on the Kenny Belle gets more and more interesting as it depends upon the year of operation and which photos you look at. As you've noted the use of BR Mk1 suburban coaches this restricts the brake vehicles you can use with this set - no 156.

In short if your're modelling set 156 in 1963 then you will require 3 x Mk1 10 compartment seconds and a Maunsell brake third (BSK) - the 1963 photo on the Blood and Custard website - (scroll down to set 156) https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-CoachingSetsNonCorridorSets.html shows a Maunsell R4 brake third therefore the CRT Maunsell Brake third diag 2110 could be used to represent this vehicle Maunsell Brake Third diag 2110.

Moving on a year to June 1964 the Maunsell BSK was withdrawn and replaced by a Bulleid brake third from diagram 2124. Diagram 2124 is in the CRT range.

Pre December 1962 the set was made up entirely of ex-SR R1 stock.

The Thanet stock is all Low Window and can be used fro the R1 brake third but it will require modification to High Window and the carriage ends converting to the later Pullman style adopted by the SR.

The 'Thanet' stock was the last built by the SR with 'British' scissors corridor connections perpetuated by the LMS and GW whereas the SR and LNER adopted the Pullman corridor connection and buckeye couplers.
 
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S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hi Yorkshire Dave
Hope you had a really good new years eve and thank you very much for the latest information and model suggestions with coach formations it was an interesting read also a bit of a brain scrambler as the Southern seemed to constantly swap around coaches into different formations some of it to do with scrappage but still gives different model formations which adds interest, I will use the CRT kits and try to keep you posted with progress but with the issue of the MK1 non corridor seconds in relation to model kits I will consider purchasing three easy build kits and using the third kit to graft another compartment onto the other two and another one onto the MMP kit although I do know that those kits are plastic so could be a challenge and hope the MMP kit and easy build ones marry up ok.

Kind regards,

Paul.
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Hi Paul

With regard to the 3 x 64' Mk1 full 2nd suburbans I'd be inclined to contact EasyBuild with your requirements to build the 64' Mk1 suburban coaches and see if they can supply parts from their range to achieve this given that 64' Mk1 suburban coaches are not available in 7mm scale.

You would require
  • 3 x 64' underframes from their Mk1 corridor stock range.
  • 3 x 64' roofs from their Mk1 corridor stock range.
  • 6 x ends from their 57' Mk1 suburban range (3 plain and 3 with the emergency brake detail).
  • 7 x 57' 9 compartment diag 326 sides from their Mk1 suburban range. The 7th side is to cut out 6 individual compartment sides to insert one into each of the 9 compartment sides to achieve the 10 compartmet 2nd.
  • plus all of the associated buffers, underframe detail ,bogies and interior detail.
Personally I'd rather have the 3 Mk1 64' suburban coaches adapted/kitbashed from the same range rather than mix two manufacturesrs so they appear consistent and leave the MMP 57' Mk1 as a separate project.
 
P

Pinza007

New Member
southern rambler said:
Hi Yorkshire Dave
Thank you for the advise that seems an easier way I will contact easy build to discuss things.

Many thanks,

Paul.
Click to expand...
Hello Paul

For info, Easy Build do all three types of 64’ suburbs but don’t advertise as the kits are made to order and cost 15% more than standard kits. I’m sure that you will find Shawn very helpful when you get in touch with EB.

Ian
 
H

hrmspaul

Western Thunderer
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Hello hrmspaul
Thank you for the link to Paul Bartlett photos very useful, thinking of purchasing pairs of Ellis Clark Trains MK1 non corridor bogies RTR if they can supply them on their own but depends on the fitting to the easy build chassis will try to discuss with the gent that runs EB could save a bit of work and I think the weight of them could give more stability through point work.

Kind regards,

Paul.
 
S

southern rambler

Active Member
Contacted Ellis Clark and no they can not supply MK1 Bogies on their own {what a shame}, never mind.
Can anyone suggest a company where I could purchase microscope glass for 7mm coach windows please?.
 
Yorkshire Dave

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
southern rambler said:
Can anyone suggest a company where I could purchase microscope glass for 7mm coach windows please?.
Click to expand...

I presume you mean microscope slide cover slips rather than the slide.

Just type microscope slide cover slips into a t'interweb search - there are plenty of suppliers out there. I never use them so cannot recommend a supplier.
 
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