NBR / LNER C15

[Bob Reid]

Can anyone spare me a copy of Jim McGeown's instructions for the C15? Though I'm building the kit in 4mm (from 52F) any extra instructions - like Jim's with lots of detail would help no end. For that matter, anyone that has details of what all of the loco's LNER push-pull equipment was located / function would also help (for those that were so fitted).

Many thanks.

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hi Bob

I have started a conversation about this.

Regards.

 

[Bob Reid]

Many thanks Bill, that's a great help.

 

[Bob Reid]

I meant to say Bill, if you're typing the email address in manually, watch for the two R's in the middle of my email address - it occasionally confuses folk!

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hopefully, Bob, your email system has survived the onslaught.

Since WT likes pictures, here is my C15 on its running in trials - the track has been weathered since then!



Best wishes.

 

[Bob Reid]

It did Bill and they'll help no end I'm sure. The 52F Models instructions are comprehensive but I've always found you can never have enough, so many thanks.

That's a fine looking C15 you have there!

 

[Bob Reid]

Any experts on LNER Push-Pull equipment for loco's out there?

 

[Rob Pulham]

Sorry Bob,

Not even remotely an expert although I do plan a Push Pull fitted G5 at some point. this photo might help it's at a reasonable resolution so you can zoom in but unfortunately it's taken from below foot plate level so some detail is lost.

A local push and pull train at Belton on the Yarmouth Southtown-Beccles stretch of the East Suffolk Line. Victorian-built tank engine Class F1/4 2-4-2T LNER No.5731 provides the motive power. Mid-1930s-1937 by Tedder13, on Flickr

 

[Rob Pulham]

Bob,

This might help too - this is the casting set that Jim McGown (Connoisseur Models) sells.

Photo copyright to Jim and linked from his site

 

[Bob Reid]

Thanks Rob. Trying to find out what all the motor? gear does is proving a bit elusive - apart from the interest in it, I was hoping to make sure I'd covered all the right bits!


Photo courtesy of Derek Penney

Especially all the equipment on the smokebox (seen here on the right)...

 

[Martin Shaw]

Bob
The push pull apparatus essentially consists of a vacuum cylinder, the shallow round thing at the front operating a push rod onto a horizontal pivoted beam that operates an auxiliary regulator on the side of the smokebox. The main regulator in the cab is opened and steam passes along the main steam pipe in the boiler to the smokebox and then via the aux regulator to the steam chests. By way of the differing sizes of cylinder and the mechanical advantage of the pivoting beam quite low pressure is used to control quite high pressure. Most power operated push pull regulators worked in principally the same way, the Southern used compressed air and took the necessity of fitting a compressor in their stride, quite why the LNER didn't do the same, especially on already air fitted locos, is beyond me. I'll dig out my C15 and photo the front bit. I presume Bill was able to supply the Majestic/Connoisseur instructions.
Regards
Martin

 

[Bob Reid]

Thanks Martin, that certainly helps. I had assumed (wrongly) that's why thy retained the Westinghouse Pump on the other side - though I guess then by BR days it was largely redundant. Interesting also are the RCH fittings coming off brackets on buffer beam - presumably for bell communication with the Fireman. If you've pictures of the equivalent on the rear it would be much appreciated.

Yes thanks Bill kindly supplied the instructions.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Bob
It was a good idea until I took it out of the box, when it dawned that whilst I had originally intended to model a P&P loco, I changed my mind to make one of Polmont's allocation. I really must get around to painting it, maybe.

I've had a look at both RCTS and Yeadon and neither has a bunker view of the relevant locos, but I suspect the rear wouldn't have been much different from the front.

Re air pumps, The NB was an air railway so all passenger engines were equipped with Westinghouse equipment that included air braking on the engine. When the LNER, along with others, made the wholly retrograde step to standardise on the vacuum brake I can only conclude the additional cost of converting the loco brake to steam couldn't be justified, even though 20 odd years of compressor maintenance would surely have paid for it, As a result the locos were airbraked until withdrawal, as far as I am aware a situation that applied to all former NB engines and certainly a large quantity of GE engines, the other part of the LNER that managed to look forward.
Regards
Martin

PS Yeadon has a nearly side on view of a P&P loco which is helpful if you can borrow a copy.
PPS You need to be a bit careful with brake and heat hoses at the front as things varied over the years.

 

[Bob Reid]

Thanks for trying Martin... I'll work on the Yeadon's!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Thanks Rob. Trying to find out what all the motor? gear does is proving a bit elusive - apart from the interest in it, I was hoping to make sure I'd covered all the right bits!

I'm familiar with the SR (ex-LBSC) air operated push/pull system with it's myriad of pipes on the front and rear buffer beams.

However, looking at the photo above I can make out the air, vacuum and steam heat lines but where are control lines for this loco's push/pull system - which I presume is vacuum. Are they at the bunker end only?

I see this loco has electric tail lights is this for convenience and for working through Queen St Low Level?

 

[Bob Reid]

Dave, Note there are two Vacuum Pipes off the buffer beam - presumably one is for the Vacuum control - the high level one on the left of the drawhook, and one down to the right of it.

I don't think they are tail lights, but just look like the covers for the traditional RCH jumpers for the bell communication (though when fresh out of the works, they were clearly bright red).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Thanks for the explanation Bob. I should have read one on your earlier posts .

I presume the hardy Scots didn't require carriage heating .

 

[Bob Reid]

You are kidding the heating bag's down to the left of the drawhook, hanging off the buffer beam....

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

You are kidding the heating bag's down to the left of the drawhook, hanging off the buffer beam....

Ah... so the LNER removed the air brake lines - unlike the SR who left them on most their ex LBSC locos.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Dave
Not quite correct I'm afraid, certainly the three C15s converted to P&P working lost their air connections, the space was needed for the additional vacuum control, however as far as I can ascertain the remainder of the class along with their superheated sisters of the C16 class retained air bags to withdrawal, not that there was any air braked stock for them to haul in post war Scotland. The pair allocated to the Craigendoran/Arrochar shuttles were I think the only regular P&P working in Scotland.
Regards
Martin