7mm Neilson Box Tanks

[John Baker]

I'm looking for a copy of the above book, specifically for the drawings of the Neilson Box tanks contained inside
They are available to buy online, but £50+ seems rather steep!

John

 

[Bonky]

Not quite what you were looking for, but: WSR

(the site should be 'interactive')

Richard

 

[Overseer]

I'm looking for a copy of the above book, specifically for the drawings of the Neilson Box tanks contained inside
They are available to buy online, but £50+ seems rather steep!

John
View attachment 169274

I have the book and can scan the drawing for you. Certainly not worth that much for one drawing which I don’t think is accurate or based on anything more than photographs. Some of Iain Rice’s box tank drawings are probably more likely to be closer to reality even though hand drawn instead of cad.

 

[Overseer]

Looking at the requested drawing again doesn't give me any more confidence in it. It is a nice drawing prepared by someone who does not understand steam locomotives. The firebox and 'cab' area are not right at all.


As I mentioned Iain Rice's drawings, these are the ones I have.



And the reason I keep a lookout for Neilson information -


I really should finish it. It is meant to be a model of the Findhorn Railway box tank. The problem is I built it to the dimensions of the Findhorn tank matching the photograph which is often stated to be this loco in original condition. The RCTS Highland Railways Locomotives Book 1 even has a detailed description of all the changes carried out by Stroudley after the Highland took it over but unfortunately this is all complete bunkum. The early condition photograph was taken at the Neilson works (there are other loco Neilson loco portraits taken with the same fence in the background) not at Findhorn and is not the same locomotive as the Findhorn Railway one. Stroudley did not change the wheels to pin between, nor most of the other changes listed. I just did a google and the same myth is repeated in the recent RMWeb Neilson box and non box thread.

A photograph of your prototype is really needed to model a Neilson box tank, they varied far more in dimensions and details than most other manufacturers products.

 

[spikey faz]

I have the book and can scan the drawing for you. Certainly not worth that much for one drawing which I don’t think is accurate or based on anything more than photographs. Some of Iain Rice’s box tank drawings are probably more likely to be closer to reality even though hand drawn instead of cad.

Agreed. I found Iain's drawings far more useful when I built my G-Scale Neilson.

I spent a lot of time scouring the Internet for photos, which proved to be useful.

Mike

 

[John Baker]

Not quite what you were looking for, but: WSR

(the site should be 'interactive')

Richard

Thank you - very useful site!
John

 

[spikey faz]

Looking at the requested drawing again doesn't give me any more confidence in it. It is a nice drawing prepared by someone who does not understand steam locomotives. The firebox and 'cab' area are not right at all.
View attachment 169277

As I mentioned Iain Rice's drawings, these are the ones I have.
View attachment 169280
View attachment 169281

And the reason I keep a lookout for Neilson information -
View attachment 169278
View attachment 169279
I really should finish it. It is meant to be a model of the Findhorn Railway box tank. The problem is I built it to the dimensions of the Findhorn tank matching the photograph which is often stated to be this loco in original condition. The RCTS Highland Railways Locomotives Book 1 even has a detailed description of all the changes carried out by Stroudley after the Highland took it over but unfortunately this is all complete bunkum. The early condition photograph was taken at the Neilson works (there are other loco Neilson loco portraits taken with the same fence in the background) not at Findhorn and is not the same locomotive as the Findhorn Railway one. Stroudley did not change the wheels to pin between, nor most of the other changes listed. I just did a google and the same myth is repeated in the recent RMWeb Neilson box and non box thread.

A photograph of your prototype is really needed to model a Neilson box tank, they varied far more in dimensions and details than most other manufacturers products.

Ooo! I like that. Please can you post some more details/pictures of your model please.

Mike

 

[John Baker]

Looking at the requested drawing again doesn't give me any more confidence in it. It is a nice drawing prepared by someone who does not understand steam locomotives. The firebox and 'cab' area are not right at all.
View attachment 169277

As I mentioned Iain Rice's drawings, these are the ones I have.
View attachment 169280
View attachment 169281

And the reason I keep a lookout for Neilson information -
View attachment 169278
View attachment 169279
I really should finish it. It is meant to be a model of the Findhorn Railway box tank. The problem is I built it to the dimensions of the Findhorn tank matching the photograph which is often stated to be this loco in original condition. The RCTS Highland Railways Locomotives Book 1 even has a detailed description of all the changes carried out by Stroudley after the Highland took it over but unfortunately this is all complete bunkum. The early condition photograph was taken at the Neilson works (there are other loco Neilson loco portraits taken with the same fence in the background) not at Findhorn and is not the same locomotive as the Findhorn Railway one. Stroudley did not change the wheels to pin between, nor most of the other changes listed. I just did a google and the same myth is repeated in the recent RMWeb Neilson box and non box thread.

A photograph of your prototype is really needed to model a Neilson box tank, they varied far more in dimensions and details than most other manufacturers products.

These drawings will be extremely helpful! Thanks!

 

[John Baker]

Many thanks for all the replies, you are all true gents - a build thread will appear in the relevant section some time in the future

 

[Sleeper Agent]

I just did a google and the same myth is repeated in the recent RMWeb Neilson box and non box thread.

Seems I fell into the ol' parroted information pit trap

I confess the statement about the wheels being altered had me doubting the author but otherwise hadn't questioned the pre and post rebuild differences. Great as Neilson were at not building the same box outside group orders the 'Not Findhorn' one looks more similar to Phoenix and the mystery eBay snap while the rebuilt Findhorn seems to be a stepping stone from those later builds and the West Somerset boxes.
I'll amend the RMweb thread shortly but before I do can you provide another example with the fence in the background? I know several Neilson recordings were tidied up but just can't seem to find the same location online or in my books.

HR 16 'Findhorn'

HR 16 'Findhorn'

www.ambaile.org.uk

Phenomenal model so far btw, old or new likewise would love to see some additional pics

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

John there is a designer known as Pugsy/Killian who's tooled the West Somerset Box.

0 gauge Neilson box tank by Pugsy on Shapeways

Check out 0 gauge Neilson box tank by Pugsy on Shapeways and discover more 3D printed products in Trains.

www.shapeways.com

I've cut up the cab on my print as like Overseer mentioned there are differences between the photos and the PDF/book drawing, but it's still a good starting point if you're not looking to design your own or go down the scratch build route.

Steve

 

[Overseer]

Seems I fell into the ol' parroted information pit trap

I confess the statement about the wheels being altered had me doubting the author but otherwise hadn't questioned the pre and post rebuild differences. Great as Neilson were at not building the same box outside group orders the 'Not Findhorn' one looks more similar to Phoenix and the mystery eBay snap while the rebuilt Findhorn seems to be a stepping stone from those later builds and the West Somerset boxes.
I'll amend the RMweb thread shortly but before I do can you provide another example with the fence in the background? I know several Neilson recordings were tidied up but just can't seem to find the same location online or in my books.

HR 16 'Findhorn'

HR 16 'Findhorn'

www.ambaile.org.uk

Phenomenal model so far btw, old or new likewise would love to see some additional pics

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

John there is a designer known as Pugsy/Killian who's tooled the West Somerset Box.

0 gauge Neilson box tank by Pugsy on Shapeways

Check out 0 gauge Neilson box tank by Pugsy on Shapeways and discover more 3D printed products in Trains.

www.shapeways.com

I've cut up the cab on my print as like Overseer mentioned there are differences between the photos and the PDF/book drawing, but it's still a good starting point if you're not looking to design your own or go down the scratch build route.

Steve

Another photo of the fence at the Neilson works is behind Highland Glenbarry number 35, Neilson 971 in undercoat before delivery in November 1863. Published in Peter Tatlow's Highland Locomotives book.


I will start a thread for the box tank sometime soon.

Edit: For another glimpse of the Neilson fence, with a non Highland Railway locomotive, see Plate 12.11 on page 250 of Caledonian Railway Locomotives by David Hamilton.

 

[Sleeper Agent]

Much obliged Overseer and a nice bit of debunking

*List partly taken from below post as I ran out of room.

Nith Viaduct

www.forgottenrelics.co.uk

The Introduction of the Railway into Galloway

Family Tree Research Sources - Genealogy and History in the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright.

www.kirkcudbright.co

Dovercourt "L" Residential

The road was named after “Henry Lee” of the building firm surprisingly named “Henry Lee & Son” who were also involved in the building of the Stone Pier, local sea defences, promenades and...

harwichanddovercourt.com

Henry Lee & Sons - Owner | Dredging Database

Dredging company, Type: Contractor, Location: London, United Kingdom, The firm was originally John and Henry Lee, builders and contractors, of Chi

www.dredgepoint.org

Green are known box tanks.
Yellow are boxes from what I can tell but these are troublesome examples to confirm. Contractor Henry Lee did own at least two boxes it seems but not positive the two in the photos are actually Neilsons.
Red ones are merely possible contenders.

No Year Formation Cylinder(s) Gauge Railway
1 1843 0-4-0 Inside 4' 6" Garnkirk & Glasgow Railway 'Alchemist' 1st built by Kerr Mitchel & Neilson, later CR No.80
2 1843 0-4-0 Inside 4' 6" Garnkirk & Glasgow Railway 'Astrologer' *Again works number not stated, later CR No.81
3 1843 0-4-0 Inside 4' 6" Garnkirk & Glasgow Railway 'Magician' *Again works number not stated, later CR 82
6 1844 0-4-0 Inside 4' 6" Wishaw & Coltness Railway 'Sirocco'
7 1844 0-4-0 Inside 4' 6" Wishaw & Coltness Railway 'Talisman'
8 1846 0-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock & Ayr Railway 'Nimrod', later G&SWR No.42
9 1846 0-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock & Ayr Railway 'Actaeon', later G&SWR No.43
?? c1847 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Drumgray Coal Co, Drumgrayhill, Whiterigg, near Airdrie
16 c1847 2-4-0/0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Mercury', later NBR 243. Ordered 11/11/46, delivered 11/47
17 c1847 2-4-0/0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway
18 c1847 2-4-0/0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Mars', later NBR 244
20 1847 2-4-0/0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Ceres', later NBR 245
21 1847 2-4-0/0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Juno', later NBR 246
22 1848? 2-2-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Ardrossan Railway 'Tam o' Shanter', later G&SWR No.10
23 1848? 2-2-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Ardrossan Railway 'Soutar Johnny', later G&SWR No.16
35 1849 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD., Glengarnock Iron & Steel Works, Kilbirnie
37 1849 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD., Glengarnock Iron & Steel Works, Kilbirnie
38 1850 2-2-2WT/2-4-0T ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway No.3?, later NBR No.309
39 1850 2-2-2WT/2-4-0T ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway No.4?, later NBR No.310 & 310A

?? 1850 2-2-2T? ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway 5ft drivers 14"x20 cylinders
?? 1850 2-2-2T? ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway 5ft drivers 14"x20 cylinders
?? 1850 2-2-2T? ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway 5ft drivers 14"x20 cylinders
*Some duplications with these Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway engines, sort out.

41 1849 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD., Glengarnock Iron & Steel Works, Kilbirnie
42 1850 2-2-2WT/2-2-2T? Outside 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Wee Scotland', later NBR No.312, 312A, 88 & 13
?? 1850? 2-2-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway 'Little England'
45 1850 2-2-2WT ?? 4' 8.5" Caledonian & Dumbartonshire Junction Railway No.6?, later NBR No.311 & 11
*Are these last two are actually the same engine as the C&DJR was absorbed into the E&GR.
*10"x14" cylinders? P77 of Scottish Locomotive History mentions 1 of these 4 was similar to a sister design named 'Atalanta' and became the loco intendant's inspection engine, I presume it's this engine rather than the 14"x20" cylinder trio but try to cross-check.

4_ 1850 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway Works No.88
47 1851 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Dalmellington Ironworks, Waterside, near Dalmellington *No.1
48 1851 0-4-0T Outside 4' 8.5" Troon Harbour/Kilmarnock & Troon 'Troon' *Not 100% if a tank engine.
49 1851 0-4-0T Outside 4' 8.5" Troon Harbour/Kilmarnock & Troon 'Kilmarnock' *Not 100% if a tank engine
?? 1851 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 249 & 249A
?? 1851 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 250, 250A & 873
51 1852 2-2-0VT ?? 4' 8.5" Morayshire Railway 'Elgin', later GNoSR No.1.
52 1852 2-2-0VT ?? 4' 8.5" Morayshire Railway 'Lossiemouth', later GNoSR No.2
57 1852 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Garterrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
59 1852 0-4-2ST Outside 4' 8.5" Coldness Iron Co. LTD. Newmains, near Wishaw
60 1852 ?? ?? ?? New Cumnock Iron Co.
61? 185? ?? ?? ?? Forth Iron Co, Falkirk
62? 185? ?? ?? ?? Forth Iron Co, Falkirk
65 1854 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Dalmellington Ironworks, Waterside, near Dalmellington *No.2
66 1853 0-6-0WT Outside 4' 8.5" GKN Dowlais LTD, Dowlais Works, Merthyr Tydfil
67 1853 0-6-0WT Outside 4' 8.5" GKN Dowlais LTD, Dowlais Works, Merthyr Tydfil
68 1853 0-6-0WT Outside 4' 8.5" GKN Dowlais LTD, Dowlais Works, Merthyr Tydfil
71 185? 2-4-0 Outside? 4' 8.5" Stock engine offered to G&SWR and delivered around October 1854. No.94
72 1854 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Stirling & Dunfermline Railway, later NBR 251 & 68
73 1854 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Stirling & Dunfermline Railway, later NBR 252 & 66
74 1854 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Stirling & Dunfermline Railway, later NBR 253 & 67

76? 1850 2-2-2T ?? 4' 8.5" Stirling & Dunfermline Railway, later NBR 254 & 69 *Try to refine build date & Works No.
76 1854 0-4-0ST ?? 4' 8.5" Colin Dunlop & Co, near Hamilton, Baillieston & Coatbridge sites.
First is in the NBR British Pre-Grouping booklet. The second listing is in p95 of 'Industrial Locomotives of Scotland' & mentions 10"x18 cylinders.

77 1855 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.95 '95 Class', paid for 03/55, ordered 11/53?
78 1855 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.?? '95 Class', paid for 03/55, ordered 11/53?
79 1855 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.?? '95 Class', paid for 03/55, ordered 11/53?
80 1855 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.?? '95 Class', paid for 08/55, ordered 11/53?
81 1854 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 0" Redruth & Chasewater Railway 'Miner' or 'Smelter'
82 1854 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 0" Redruth & Chasewater Railway 'Miner' or 'Smelter'
?? 1855 0-4-0ST ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.282
84 1855 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD., Glengarnock Iron & Steel Works, Kilbirnie
85 1855 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 283 & 283A
86 1855 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 284 & 284A
87 1855 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 285
88 1855 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 286
89 1855 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 287
90 1855 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 288 & 288A

In/around 1855 the company ceases building stationary and marine engines in order to focus on locomotives. A noticeable gap in the Works No sequence has also come up here showing that like a number of other firms a bit of subterfuge was used to make it seem to potential customers they were a very successful and prodigious company.

313 1854 0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD Glengarnock Iron & Stee Works Kilbirnie
317 1855 2-4-0T/2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Peebles Railway 'St Ronans', later NBR No.86
318 1855 2-4-0T/2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Peebles Railway 'Tweed', later NBR No.87 & 87A
322 c1854 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colin Dunlop & Co, near Hamilton, Baillieston & Coatbridge sites
325 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Coalmaster Archibald Russel, later CR No.88. Entered service in March 55.
330 1855 0-4-2? ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 289 & 289A
331 1856 0-4-2? ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 284 & 284A
332 1856 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 291
333 1856 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 292 & 292A
334 1856 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 293 & 293A
335 1857 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh & Glasgow, later NBR 294 & 294A
336 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Coalmaster John Pearson Kidston. Engine became Caledonian Railway No.87.
337 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Coalmaster John Pearson Kidston. Engine became Caledonian Railway No.82?
338 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" General Terminus & Glasgow Harbour Railway No.3, CR No.93 in 1858 later 116.
339 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" General Terminus & Glasgow Harbour Railway No.4 (not carried), CR No.94 in 1858 later 117 & 369
340-2? 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" *William Dixton & Co, Iron Master, later sold to Caledonian Railway in 1857 or 31/07/58 as No.186.
340-2? 1855 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" *William Dixton & Co, Iron Master, later sold to Caledonian Railway in 1857/ 31/07/58 as No.187.
*'Caledonian Railway The Formative Years' is contradictory. Dixon is said to provided the CR 4 locos but seems the known two were not 388 & 399.

 

[SimonT]

John,
are you still after a copy of the book? I have one that has been in a box since the house move four years ago, so I guess that I no longer need it!
Simon

 

[Overseer]

Much obliged Overseer and a nice bit of debunking

Thinking about this, I wonder whether the builders number of the loco sold to the Findhorn Railway is documented. The works photo of the other box tank was published in the 1947 Allchin Highland loco book and the builders number would have been visible on the print. The only known photo of the ex Findhorn loco was taken after the Highland Railway sold it, and it is without a builders plate.

 

[Sleeper Agent]

Well the Highland Books along with the little Findhorn booklet are in agreement with it being Works No.422 (can't re-find the latter currently but fairly sure it's in there) so assumed there was paper documentation to back it up. Do wish I could see the other two mystery box tank photos in better definition to have a chance of reading out the build plates but the given number does seem about where it should be when discounting the hiccups of the single cylinders. Not sure if Neilson's order book survived as unlike say 'Manning Wardle & Company LTD' don't believe a list has been published but in light of the NRM possibly having it stored here's a few mostly from 'Industrial Locomotives of Scotland'.

344 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
345 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
346 1857 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Shotts Iron Co LTD, Shotts Ironwork, Shotts
349 185? 0-4-0ST Inside 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie *Was this really an inside cylinder build?
350 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
351 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
352 1856 0-4-2 Outside? 4' 8.5" Coalmaster James Barr of Law Colliery.
353 1856 0-4-2 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.295 & 295A
354 1858? 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
359 1855 0-4-0ST Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
366 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Baileys' Line (later Brynmawr and Nantyglo Mineral Branch), near Ebbw Vale
367 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
368 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Ebbw Vale Co, Blaenau Gwent
369 1855 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Baileys' Line (later Brynmawr and Nantyglo Mineral Branch), near Ebbw Vale
370 1856 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" West Somerset Mineral Railway
371 1856 0-4-0ST? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
373 1856 0-4-0ST? Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
374 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
375 1859 0-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Summerlee Iron Co. LTD, Summerlee & Mossend Iron & Stell Co LTD
376 1856 0-4-0ST? Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
377 1856 0-4-0ST? Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
?? 1856 0-4-0ST Outside? 4' 8.5" Coalmaster John Watson Junior of Wishaw Colliery. 'small tank', the 2nd engine he supplied the CR.
390 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
391 1857 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" West Somerset Mineral Railway
392 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Morris & Crampton 'Cubitt' hired by the LCDR for constructing the Sittingbourne-Sheerness Railway. line opened in 19/07/60 and it was returned after 28/08/60. In 1865 the LCDR used it again for constructing the Otford-Mailing-Maidstone railway. In 1873 it was at Otford Brickworks which provided for constructing the Otford-Mailing-Maidstone. Here it was used as a stationary boiler but exploded in 76.
393 1859 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD Glengarnock Iron & Stee Works Kilbirnie
396 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.56, alter CR No.360
398 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.9 '9 Class' *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
399 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.14 '9 Class'. *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
400 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.15 '9 Class'. *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
401 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.17 '9 Class' *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
402 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.20 '9 Class' *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
403 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.30 '9 Class' *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
404 1857 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" G&SWR No.33 '9 Class' *Patrick Stirling's seven strong class ordered 11th of November 1856.
406 1862 0-4-2T/0-6-0T ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway No.5?, later NBR No.316 & 316A
407? 1857? ?? ?? 4' 8.5" 10"x18" engine used by Bassey & Falsaw for constructing part of the Inverness & Aberdeen Railway. Authorised 21/07/56, opened between Nairn-Dalvey 22/12/57, 25/03/58 to Elgin & 18/08/58 for Elgin to Keith.
408 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Pontypool Iron Co, Pontypool
409 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8,5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
414 1857 0-4-0ST Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
415 1857 0-4-0ST Single 4' 8.5" Colvilles LTD, Calderbank Ironworks near Airdrie
416 1857 0-4-0ST Single 3' 3.5" Barrow Haematite Steel Co or the Mouzell haematite mines network
420 c1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Coldtess Iron Co. Ltd. Newmains near Wishaw.
421 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
4__ 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Findhorn Railway *Said to be stock engine
424 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Dixon's Ironworks LTD, Govan, Glasgow *Firm had some boxes
425 1860 0-4-0ST Single 4' 8.5" Clyde Ironwork, Tollcross Glasgow *New?
436 1859 0-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Summerlee Iron Co. LTD, Summerlee & Mossend Iron & Stell Co LTD
437 1859 0-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Summerlee Iron Co. LTD, Summerlee & Mossend Iron & Stell Co LTD
442 c1859 ?? 4' 8.5" Glasgow Iron Steel Co. LTD *Known fleet were all 4-wheeled tanks, mostly saddle.
443 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Govan Collieries, Govan, Glasgow *Firm had some boxes
462/447? 1858/9 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Thomas Sport & Co LTD, Elgin & Wellwood Collieries, Dunfermline. Later Elgin Railway/West of
Fife Mineral Railway & Harbour Company, later NBR No.166, 166A, 24 (when rebuilt), 24A, 833 & 1033
March 1858 is given in Steam Index, North British Railway Locomotive designs for No.166, and is said to of come from the ex-West of Fife Railway.

North British Railway: locomotive designs

Locomotives of North British Railway including Atlantics,Glens,Scots

www.steamindex.com

459 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
460 1858 0-6-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway 188 Class
461 1859 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR.296 & 296A
462? 1858/9 0-4-0ST? Outside? 4' 8.5" West of Fife Railway/Fife Mineral Railway & Harbour Company, later NBR No.165 & 165A
September 1858 is given in Steam Index, North British Railway Locomotive designs for No.165, though is said to of come from ex-Elgin Colliery.

North British Railway: locomotive designs

Locomotives of North British Railway including Atlantics,Glens,Scots

www.steamindex.com

471 1859? 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Colin Dunlop & Co, near Hamilton, Baillieston & Coatbridge sites.
478 1859 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish North Eastern No.71, later Caledonian Railway No.515 '71 Class' Delivered Jan-June
479 1859 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish North Eastern No.72, later Caledonian Railway No.514 '71 Class' Delivered Jan-June
480 1859 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish North Eastern No.73, later Caledonian Railway No.513 '71 Class' Delivered Jan-June
481 1859 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish North Eastern No.74, later Caledonian Railway No.512 '71 Class' Delivered Jan-June
482 1859 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish North Eastern No.75, later Caledonian Railway No.511 '71 Class' Delivered Jan-June
483? 1858/9 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Fife Mineral Railway & Harbour Company, later NBR No.167 (rebuilt in 1873) then No.167A in 77
October 1859 is given in Steam Index, North British Railway Locomotive designs though is said to of come from ex-West of Fife Railway.

North British Railway: locomotive designs

Locomotives of North British Railway including Atlantics,Glens,Scots

www.steamindex.com

484 1859 ??Tank ?? 4' 8.5" Shotts Iron Co LTD, Shotts Ironworks, Shotts
485 1859 ??Tank ?? ?? James Russel & Son, Boghead, Hopeton, Torbanehill Collies, near Bathgate
487 1859 2-4-0STT Outside 4' 8.5" Morayshire Railway No.3 'Glengrant' built/received June, later GNoSR No.41.
488 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.193 '189 Class'
489 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.194 '189 Class'
490 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.195 '189 Class'
491 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.196 '189 Class'
496 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class, later GER No.
496 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.307, later GER No.307
497 1859 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.308, later GER No.308
498 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.309, later GER No.309
499 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.310, later GER No.310
500 1859 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.311, later GER No.311
501 1859 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.312, later GER No.312
502 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.313, later GER No.313
503 1859 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.314, later GER No.314
504 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.315, later GER No.315
505 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.316, later GER No.316
506 1859 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.317, later GER No.317
507 1859 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.318, later GER No.318
508 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.319, later GER No.319
509 1860 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.320, later GER No.320
510 1860 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.321, later GER No.321
511 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.322, later GER No.322
512 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.323, later GER No.323
513 1860 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.324, later GER No.324
514 1860 2-4-0/4-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.325, later GER No.325
515 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Eastern Counties Railway Y Class No.326, later GER No.326
536 1860 0-4-2/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.297 & 297A
5__ 1859 0-6-0ST Outside 4' 0" Redruth & Chasewater Railway 'Spitfire' *Go ahead given in May/June, delivered in September.
540 18__ 0-6-0ST Outside 4' 0" _______________ *No rear bunker, not the Redruth & Chasewater loco unless redrawn.
542 1859 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Lewis', later GS&WR No.61, then 71
543 1859 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Roney', later GS&WR No.62, then 72
544 1859 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Carlisle', later GS&WR No.63, then 73
555 1859 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Govan Collieries, Govan, Glasgow *Firm had some boxes
556 1860 0-4-2/0-6-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.298
559 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
561 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge
562 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Gartsherrie Ironworks, Coatbridge

 

[Osgood]

.....
I've cut up the cab on my print as like Overseer mentioned ......

Steve

A nice bit of debunkering?

"Taxi!"

 

[John Baker]

John,
are you still after a copy of the book? I have one that has been in a box since the house move four years ago, so I guess that I no longer need it!
Simon

Apologies for the delay.....just catching up after being away for a couple of days. I think with all the information on here and another forum I use, I've probably enough to get started, but thanks for the offer John

 

[Stuart]

I'm looking for a copy of the above book, specifically for the drawings of the Neilson Box tanks contained inside
They are available to buy online, but £50+ seems rather steep!

John

All of the drawings in the book can be found in the Gallery section of the accompanying website: {{articlechoice.data.query1[0].articleMetaTitle}}
Just enter Neilson in the search box

 

[John Baker]

Moderators - I'm conscious this thread has evolved away from the 'Small Ads" intended use. Would someone mind moving it over to the Area 51 section please? I'll change the name of the thread and add to it as a build thread as things progress.
Cheers,
John

 

[GrahamMc]

specifically for the drawings of the Neilson Box tanks

Hi John, the NRM have a list of Neilson's drawings, there's a lot of them and they're in the North British Locomotive company list. A quick look through doesn't reveal anything obvious but there are entries like the one below.
Neilson 5972 ALS6/PP03/Q 6-Jan-1864 1864 10" mineral 4'8 1/2"
and
Neilson 29 ALS6/PP03/R 4'8 1/2" E453 E454 14" mineral 0-4-0 800 gals
E461 E462
E676 E482
E594 E596
E610 E653
E654

It could be the 'minerals' are box tanks built for stock so it could be worth a look. I've attached a copy of the NRM's North British list.
ATB.

Edit.

And the reason I keep a lookout for Neilson information -

And for Overseer, if the 'Minerals' are box tanks for stock there's a 12" version, as the Findhorn engine is alleged to be, listed below. The drawing is dated 1866, a couple of years later than the Findhorn engine but it may be of use or the Findhorn engine might have been a 10" mineral. The references at the beginning are NRM numbers and locations.
Neilson, 9615, ALS6/PP03/Q, 19-Dec 1866, 4'8 1/2", 12" mineral, General Arrangement, 0-4-0T, 500 gals

There's also a 13" mineral listed, an 0-6-0 that may be the one referred to in the Rice article.

nothing else really stands out from the vague descriptions

Neilson Box tanks

Having found another couple of drawings it now looks as if we have a '10" mineral', a '12" mineral', a '13" mineral' (six coupled) and a '14" mineral'. It looks as if there's drawings at the NRM for a range of very basic standard Neilson engines from the same period with different cylinder sizes and power outputs for different jobs, possibly the box tanks that Neilson call 'minerals'. These could have the basic spec upgraded by customers if desired. No doubt someone will be able to find out more if they visit the NRM.