7mm Neilson Box Tanks

[Marc Dobson]

The drawings for the Redruth and Chasewater will be 4ft gauge which might narrow down the field a bit. However I can only see 2 4ft gauge loco drawings and neither are the correct date for the R&CR locos 1860's rather than 1850's.

Marc

 

[John Baker]

Hi John, the NRM have a list of Neilson's drawings, there's a lot of them and they're in the North British Locomotive company list. A quick look through doesn't reveal anything obvious but there are entries like the one below.
Neilson 5972 ALS6/PP03/Q 6-Jan-1864 1864 10" mineral 4'8 1/2"
and
Neilson 29 ALS6/PP03/R 4'8 1/2" E453 E454 14" mineral 0-4-0 800 gals
E461 E462
E676 E482
E594 E596
E610 E653
E654

It could be the 'minerals' are box tanks built for stock so it could be worth a look. I've attached a copy of the NRM's North British list.
ATB.

The drawings for the Redruth and Chasewater will be 4ft gauge which might narrow down the field a bit. However I can only see 2 4ft gauge loco drawings and neither are the correct date for the R&CR locos 1860's rather than 1850's.

Marc

Thanks very much for these - I was going to give the NRM a call as I didn't really know where to start looking, so this is extremely helpful info Now to find a free weekend to trundle up there to make an appointment and have a look
John

 

[Sleeper Agent]

I thought Order No.540 listed on p79 should be the Redruth & Chasewater engine, but looking the Devoran Railway Centenary Festival photo of the No.540 GA top and side of a Spitfire photo again it's clearly a different design It would help to see it more clearly but while it does appear to be a box tank the safety valve cover looks different and much like the various 0-4-0STs there's no rear coal bunker. Flicking through the D.B Barton book along with an old mag article quickly can't actually spot any Neilson numbers, but the wiki page does state No.540 so it must of come from somewhere. Perhaps it's been parroted from the 'Copper and Coals' article published across the March & April 1983 issues of 'SCALE TRAINS'.

Regardless I'll amend the RMweb box thread.

Thanks for the posting the link Graham. Beside what looks like the single cylinder+small 2 cylinder bunch nothing else really stands out from the vague descriptions but I've jotted a few down based on the dates and wheel formations, might have some luck with further delving.

John Regarding your own searchings you may find this photo site handy (no box tanks but some nice ogees and it might help eliminate some engines from the text list).

E-Pics Image Archive, ETH Library

E-Pics Image Archive, ETH Library

ba.e-pics.ethz.ch

563 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Built for stock, possibly trailed by the Caledonian in Oct 61. Later purchased as CR No.236, then No.141. Auctioned in 1880 to contractor Jackson & Sons & used for building the Oban Line. Later broken up to rebuild sister engine Works No.908 which survived to around 1895.
567 c1859 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Glasgow Iron Steel Co. LTD *Known fleet were all 4-wheeled tanks, mostly saddles.
571 1860 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Whitehaven Hematite Iron Co No.15, later W&FJR 'Bob Ridley', later FR 50, then 'Phoenix' Foundry
593 1860 0-4-0ST Outside Broad? Henry Lee & Son (contractor)
599 1860 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Chambers', later GS&WR No.64, then 74.
600 1860 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Pike', later GS&WR No.65, then 75.
603 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.201 '197 Class'
604 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.202 '197 Class'
605 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.203 '197 Class'
606 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.204 '197 Class'
607 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.205 '197 Class'
608 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.206 '197 Class'
609 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.207 '197 Class'
610 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.208 '197 Class'
611 1860 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.209 '197 Class'

?? 18?? 0-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5 Watson, coalmaster with collieries in the Cambuslang & Motherwell areas. Acquired by the NBR in 67. 5ft 1.75" drivers & 16"x22" cylinders.
?? 18?? 0-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5 Watson, coalmaster with collieries in the Cambuslang & Motherwell areas. Acquired by the NBR in 67. 5ft 1.75" drivers & 16"x22" cylinders.


Company moves to the new Hyde Park Works at Springburn, Glasgow to better cope with production.


663 1861 2-4-0STT Outside 4' 8.5" Morayshire Railway No.4 'Lesmurdie' received/built February, later GNoSR No.42
664 c1861 ?-?-?ST Outside? 4' 8.5 12"x18" cylinder saddle tank owned by railway building contractor McDonald & Grieve.
665 1861 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.237, later 142. Built for stock & purchased in 62, possibly trialled in Oct61
667 1861 ??Tank ?? ?? James Russel & Son, Boghead, Hopeton, Torbanehill Collies, near Bathgate *New?
671 1861 0-4-0ST ?? 4' 8.5" Rhos & Wrens Collieries, near Pantyffynnon
677 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.90 & 90A '90 Class'
678 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.91, 91A & 959 '90 Class'
679 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.92 & 92A '90 Class'
680 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.93, 93A & 860 '90 Class'
681 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.94 & 94A '90 Class'
682 1861 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.95, 95A & 861 '90 Class'
?? 1861 0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh, Perth & Dundee Railway No.38, later NBR No.148
?? 1861 0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Edinburgh, Perth & Dundee Railway No.46, later NBR No.156
689 1861 2-2-2ST Inside? 5' 3" Cork and Youghal Railway 'Fermoy', later GS&WR No.68. *Possibly a tender engine ex-works.
690 1861 2-2-2ST Inside? 5' 3" Cork and Youghal Railway 'Stuart de Decies', later GS&WR No.69 *Possibly a 2-2-2 ex-works.
691 1861 2-2-2ST Inside? 5' 3" Cork and Youghal Railway Unnamed it seems, later GS&WR No.70 *Possibly a 2-2-2 ex-works.
692 Oct 1861 0-4-2 Inside 5' 3" Irish North Western Railway Nos.15, later GNR 57 Ordered in 61
693 Oct 1861 0-4-2 Inside 5' 3" Irish North Western Railway Nos.16, later GNR 58 Ordered in 61
697 1862 0-4-0ST Inside 7' 0" J.& C.Rigby, contractor of the Great Breakwater at Holyhead
698 1862 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" James Gowans 10"x18" 'Dunkeld' Used for Dunkeld contract that made up part of the Inverness & Perth Junction Railway. Possible Monkland Railway connection later on.
699 1862 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Dixon's Ironworks LTD, Govan, Glasgow *Firm had some boxes.
700 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.216 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
701 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.217 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
702 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.218 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
703 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.219 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
704 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.220 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
705 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.221 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
706 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.222 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
707 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.223 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
708 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.224 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
709 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.225 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
710 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.226 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
711 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.227 '216 Class' Delivered in 61
?? 1862 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Garnkirk Colliery? *A guess, engine snapped at Garnkirk Station in 1894.
724 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.228 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
725 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.229 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
726 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.230 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
727 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.231 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
728 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.232 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
729 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.233 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
730 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.234 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
731 1862 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Caledonian No.235 '228 Class' Delivered in 62
740 1862 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.299 & 299A
741 1862 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.300 & 300A
7__ 1863 2-4-0/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.301 & 300A
744 1861 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" William Dixon LTD, Calder Ironworks, near Airdrie
745 Tender of the above engine?
7__? 1861 ski-2 Outside 4'ish The 1st Ice Machine built for Nathaniel Grew, exported to Russia
786 1861 ski-2 Outside 4'ish The 2nd Ice Machine No.50 'Rurik', exported to Russia. 10"x22" cylinders
808 1861 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway 238 purchased in 62.
809 1862 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.239. Sold to contractor Jackson & Sons in Aug 73 for
constructing the Oban line. He later rebuilt it with parts of ex.CR 236 & sold it to Brownside Coal Co. LTD, Lochend for £150.
812 1862 0-4-0ST ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland?, later NBR No.313 & 313A
813 1862 2-4-0ST Inside? 4' 8.5" GKN Dowlais LTD, Dowlais Works, Merthyr Tydfil 978
850 1862 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" London Exhibition and purchased by Said Pasha of Egypt for Egypt Railways
855 Nov 1862 2-2-2STT Inside 5' 3" Dublin & Drogheda Railway, later GNR(I) No.8
856 1862 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" ?? *Cross-check Caledonian book for above Nos.
885 1862 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway 'Hartington', later GS&WR No.66, then 76
886 1862 2-4-0ST Inside 5' 3" Cork & Youghal Railway Arnott', later GS&WR No.67, then 77.
?? 1863 2-4-0/0-6-0 ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland Railway, later NBR No.301 & 301A
928 1863 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Govan Collieries, Govan, Glasgow
932 1864 0-4-0T ?? 4' 8.5" Monkland, later NBR No.314 & 314A
933 1863 ?? ?? 4' 8.5" Glasgow Iron Steel Co. LTD *Known fleet were all 4-wheeled tanks, mostly saddle.
929 1863 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5"? 10"x18" cylinders Purchased new? by Henry Lee & Son (contractor)? On the 16th of July 74 construction of the Glasgow, Bothwell, Hamilton & Coatbridge Railway was authorised by the NBR. In Jan 75 Contract 1 & 3 were awarded to James Young

Brought back from Holland, where it is believed to have taken part of the North Sea Canal. Glasgow, Bothwell, Hamilton & Coatbridge Railway.
Believed to have been used on the North Sea Canal in Amsterdam till Sept 76? Later owned by
James Young who had contracts 1 & 3 for constructing the Glasgow, Bothwell, Hamilton & Coatbridge Railway for the NBR 1875-79.
950 June 1863 0-4-2 Inside 5' 3" The Irish North Western Railway Nos.28, later GNR 70
951 June 1863 0-4-2 Inside 5' 3" The Irish North Western Railway Nos.29, later GNR 71
954 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.63, later CR No.348 '63 Class' Delivered 63
955 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.64, later CR No.347 '63 Class' Delivered 63
956 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.65, later CR No.346 '63 Class' Delivered 63
957 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.66, No.1, later CR No.345 '63 Class' Delivered 63
958 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.67, No.2, later CR No.344 '63 Class' Delivered 63
959 1863 2-4-0 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Central Railway No.68, No.3, later CR No.343 '63 Class' Delivered 63
966 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
967 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
968 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
969 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
970 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
971 1863 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Highland Railway Glenbarry Class, rebuilt as 2-4-0s
978 1863 0-4-0ST Inside 7' 0" J.& C.Rigby (contractors of the Great Breakwater at Holyhead).
*An outside cylinder according to the IRS footnote but the General Arrangement dated 26th of December 62 shows it as a typical insider for Brunel gauge.
?? 18?? 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Shaw, Thomson & Moore. Re-sold to Monkland Railways in 64 for £750. 3' 6" drivers & 10"x18"
?? 1864 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Monkland Railways for the Ballochney inclines £1000 3' 7" drivers, 12"x18" cylinders
?? 1864 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Monkland Railways for the Ballochney inclines £1000 3' 7" drivers, 12"x18" cylinders
.

 

[Marc Dobson]

This might not be relevant but in my research on the Barclay tanks there is a change from box tank to piano around 1878-9. Ie before 1878 there were no piano tanks and after 1879 no box tanks. Not sure why the change over as a square tank would have been cheaper and quicker to build. This one looks like a hybrid box tank with a round tank.


Marc

 

[Sleeper Agent]

The Stewarts & Lloyds Limited's 6-wheeled No.25 built by the Yorkshire Engine Company in 82 is the ultimate 6-wheeled ogee built for British networks far as I'm aware,

NCB National Coal Board Industrial Steam Locomotive Class Yorkshire Engine Company 0-6-0ST YE325/1878 New Hucknall Colliery Co. No. 1 at New Hucknall Colliery in Undated - Neville Stead Collection

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

Stewart and Lloyds Ltd Industrial Steam Locomotive Class Yorkshire Engine Company 0-6-0ST YE327/1882 No 25 No 25 at Corby Steel Works in Undated - Neville Stead Collection

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

though some others were exported after this date.

NZR F class - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nice to know about Andrew Barclay's clean switch in tank styles Have never researched them or Barclays & Co in great detail but they certainly did build some smart boxes, the former's Works No.133 sold to The Dalmellington Iron Company was a right monster though! While capacity and adhesion would take a hit can't argue ogees do have the edge for visibility when shunting so that might be the reason, though when it comes to Neilson there isn't always much rhyme.
Below is their earliest ogee I'm aware of.

The angle isn't the kindest but it appears the cylinder pipes are not exposed so this stepping stone design is presumably from 1860 or a little after. That said the crank pin holes are between the spokes which doesn't gel with the later pattern that Bob Ridley/Phoenix and the eBay photo example sported so a little hard to judge on just this early 67 photo.
Pinkie is the next earliest 4-wheeled example I'm aware of and the more standardised piano & round saddle design that Neilson churned out can very much be seen, the 1888 engine in your post above being something of a throwback in terms of its exposed frames.


A few other Scottish firms built boxes and pianos for a time too, no doubt a fair bit of transferring talent and direct copycatting played their part.




1008 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.243 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1009 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.244 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1010 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.245 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1011 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.246 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1012 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.247 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1013 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.248 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1014 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.249 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1015 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.250 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1016 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.251 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1017 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.252 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1018 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.253 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1019 1864 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.254 '216 Class' Delivered in 64
1078 1865 ?-?-?T Outside? 4' 8.5" 10" cylinder tank owned new by A. Wilson who constructed the Esk Valley Railway. Authorised 21/07/64, first sod cut 05/09/64, Esk Valley Junction-Polton opened 15/04/67. Later owned by Wm. Black & Sons of Stanrigg Colliery, Airdire 05/72
1082 1865 ?-?-?T Outside? 4' 8.5" 12" cylinder tank owned new by Waring Bros & Eckersley who constructed Solway Junction Railway. First sod cut 28/03/65, opened to freight 13/09/69 & to passengers 08/08/70 (some sections earlier).
*There is an outside chance this was an 0-4-0ST ogee No.'6' or '8' was snapped in Jan 67 near Richmond Terrace. This concerned the Metropolitan District Railway contracts which Waring Bros was also involved in. Then again it might simply be another Neilson.
1083 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.140 'V Class'
1084 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.141 'V Class'
1085 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.142 'V Class'
1086 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.143 'V Class'
1087 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.144 'V Class'
1088 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.145 'V Class'
1089 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.146 'V Class'
1090 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.147 'V Class'
1091 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.148 'V Class'
1092 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.149 'V Class'
1093 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.150 'V Class'
1094 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.151 'V Class'
1095 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.152 'V Class'
1096 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.153 'V Class'
1097 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.154 'V Class'
1098 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.155 'V Class'
1099 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.156 'V Class'
1100 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.157 'V Class'
1001 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.158 'V Class'
1002 1864 2-4-2WT Outside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.159 'V Class'
1122 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Ariel' 'X1 Class', replaced in 88, sold to contractor R Worthington & Co in April 89.
1123 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Kelpie' 'X1 Class', withdrawn in 89, sold to contractor R Worthington & Co in April 89.
1124 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Kate Kearneyl' No.27 'X1 Class', later 'X1a Class', withdrawn in?
1125 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Banshee' 'X1 Class', replaced in 91, sold to contractor Fisher & Le Fanu in June 94.
1126 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Titania', withdrawn in 89, sold to contractor R Worthington & Co in April 89.
1127 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Oberon', replaced 91, sold to Murphy's Brewery March 91.
1130 1865 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Follow up order by Said Pasha of Egypt? for Egypt Railways /Egypt Railway Administration
1131 1865 2-2-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Follow up order by Said Pasha of Egypt? for Egypt Railways/Egypt Railway Administration
1144 1865 2-2-2WT Inside 5' 3" Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford Railway 'Elfin', replaced in 91, sold to Murphy's Brewery in April 92.
1145 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.75, later 84.
1146 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.76, later 85.
1147 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.77, later 86.
1148 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.78, later 87.
1149 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.79, later 88.
1150 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North Staffordshire Railway No.80, later 89.
1151 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.420 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date October 65
1152 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.421 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1153 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.422 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1154 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.423 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1155 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.424 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1156 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.425 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1157 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.426 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date November 65
1158 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.427 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date December 65
1159 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.428 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date December 65
1160 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.427 '400 Class'. Ordered 6th Dec 64, stock date December 65
1161 1865 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.58, later Caledonian Railway No.516 '58 Class'
1162 1865 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.77, later Caledonian Railway No.517 '58 Class'
1163 1865 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.85, later Caledonian Railway No.518 '58 Class'
1164 1865/6 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.86, later Caledonian Railway No.519 '58 Class'
1165 1865/6 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.87, later Caledonian Railway No.520 '58 Class'
1166 1865/6 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5 Scottish Northern Eastern No.88, later Caledonian Railway No.521 '58 Class'
1167 1865 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.5 'A10 Class'
1168 1865 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.4 'A10 Class'
1169 1865 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.7 'A10 Class'
1170 1865 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.6 'A10 Class'
1171 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.440 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date March 66
1172 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.441 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date March 66
1173 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.442 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date April 66
1174 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.443 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date April 66
1175 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.444 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date April 66
1176 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.445 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date April 66
1177 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.446 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date May 66
1178 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.447 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date May 66
1179 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.448 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date May 66
1180 1865 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.449 '400 Class'. Ordered 7th Feb 65, stock date May 66
1188 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.81 'Iona', later SECR 540 'Scotchman Class'
1189 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.82 'Bute', later SECR 541'Scotchman Class'
1190 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.83 'Jura', later SECR 542 'Scotchman Class'
1191 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.84 'Arran', later SECR 543 'Scotchman Class'
1192 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.85 'Islay', later SECR 544 'Scotchman Class'
1193 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.86 'Staffa', later SECR 545 'Scotchman Class'
1194 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.87 'Ulva', later SECR 546 & 546A 'Scotchman Class'
1195 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.88 'Clyde', later SECR 547 'Scotchman Class'
1196 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.89 'Kelvin', later SECR 548 'Scotchman Class'
1197 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.90 'Spey', later SECR 549 'Scotchman Class'
1198 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.91 'Annan', later SECR 550 'Scotchman Class'
1199 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.92 'Tay', later SECR 551 & 551A 'Scotchman Class'
1200 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.93 'Nith', later SECR 552 & 552A 'Scotchman Class'
1201 1865 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" London Chatham & Dover Railway No.94 'Esk', later SECR 553 'Scotchman Class'

 

[John Baker]

This has turned out to be a most interesting research topic! Thank you for everyone's continued contributions I'm booked in to the NRM in early October to go and have a look at some potentially useful drawings.

 

[Sleeper Agent]

Been a most productive round of posts for me too It's a somewhat more modern build than the West Somerset orders but I've just about acquired all the outstanding titles of 'Industrial Locomotives of ____' since this got going and to my pleasure p124 of 'Industrial Railways and Locomotives of Cumberland' contains an opposite side photo of Phoenix (formerly Bob Ridley and Furness Railway No.50).
While only a few exist currently these new variant titles are a great resource should any cover a region you're keen on or simply have a general interest in industrial designs. To that end did hope 'Industrial Railways and Locomotives of South Western England' would have some additional info on the Redruth & Chasewater but alas it's a pretty brief pitstop and like the original title from 1977 Spitfire is simply said to be Works No.540. Given the year on that NRM listing I could continue to dismiss this as parroted misinformation but having put together a partial works list for Neilson there's enough markers to see 540 is about right for when the engine was delivered. As I say seeing the GA in proper detail would be the ticket but it might be the given NRM date is misleading, while the lack of the rear bunker could be down to the design starting off as a tender engine (presumably the tender would of been a modest coal truck or the extension was an even later revision). Sounds unlikely as detailed drawings didn't usually get the go ahead only to be cancelled but something isn't adding up.

To finish on another box a General Arrangement dated 26th of December 1862 is reproduced in either No.183 or 184 of Industrial Railway Record for Works No.978. I would be surprised if anyone tried to model this camera shy Brunel gauge build to be honest but it's out there in published form if anyone's curious.

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Downloads/IRRNDX20.pdf

1202 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.89, later CR No.522 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1203 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.--, later CR No.523 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1204 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.--, later CR No.524 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1205 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.--, later CR No.525 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1206 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.--, later CR No.526 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1207 1886 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Scottish Northern Eastern No.--, later CR No.527 '89 Class' Ordered 19th April 65
1208 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.9 'A10 Class'
1209 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.10 'A10 Class'
1210 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.11 'A10 Class'
1211 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.12 'A10 Class'
1212 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.2 'A10 Class'
1213 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.13 'A10 Class'
1214 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.3 'A10 Class'
1215 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.14 'A10 Class'
1216 1866 0-4-2BT Inside 4' 8.5" Athens & Piraeus Railway No.1
1217 summer1866 0-4-2BT Inside 4' 8.5" Ordered by the Northampton & Banbury Junction but purchased by Solway Junction Railway. Purchased by Caledonian from Neilson in Sept 1870 and became CR No. 540, 540A & 1354 '540 Class'. HMRS works pic says works No.1216.
1218 summer1866 0-4-2BT Inside 4' 8.5" Ordered by the Northampton & Banbury Junction but purchased by Solway Junction Railway Purchased by Caledonian from Neilson in Sept 1870 and became CR No. 541, 541A & 1355 '540 Class'.
1219 1866? 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Northampton & Banbury Railway, became CR No.452 in 1870 '452 Class'
1220 1866? 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Northampton & Banbury Railway, became CR No.453 in 1870 '452 Class'
?? 1866? 0-4-2BT Inside 4' 8.5" London, Chatham & Dover Railway No.89
1226 1866 0-4-2/0-4-2T Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.141 & 141A '141 Class'
1227 1866 0-4-2/0-4-2T Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.142 & 142A '141 Class'
1228 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.143 & 143A '141 Class'
1229 1866 0-4-2/0-4-2T Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.144 & 144A '141 Class'
1230 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.145 & 145A '141 Class'
1231 1866 0-4-2/0-4-0T Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.146 & 146A '141 Class'
1232 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.147 & R8 '141 Class'
1233 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.148 & R49 '141 Class'
1234 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.149,149A, 100A, 656, later LMS 17021 '141 Class'
1235 1866 0-4-2 Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.150,150A, 162A, 657, later LMS 17022 '141 Class'
1244 1866 0-4-2 Outside 3' 6" Queensland Government Railways No.8 'A10 Class'
1246 1866 ?-?-?T Outside? 4' 8.5" 10"x18" cylinder. Owned new? by S.T Freeman & possibly used on the North Sea Canal project in Amsterdam till 08/75? Later owned by McElroy & Sons constructing Bothwell Branch for the Caledonian Railway. Authorised 21/07/73. 74-77.
1247 1865 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.123 '123 Class Built around Nov 65 for stock & delivered April 67 £825
1248 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.407 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1249 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.408 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1250 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.409 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1251 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.410 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1252 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.411 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1253 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.412 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1254 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.413 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1255 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.414 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1256 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.415 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1257 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.416 '216 Class' Delivered in 66
1258 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.417 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1259 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.418 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1260 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.419 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1261 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.420 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1262 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.421 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1263 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.422 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1264 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.423 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1265 1866 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.424 '417 Class' Delivered in 66
1266 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.425 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1267 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.426 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1268 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.427 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1269 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.428 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1270 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.429 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1271 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.430 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1272 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.431 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1273 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.432 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1274 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.433 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1275 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.434 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1276 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.435 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1277 1867 0-4-2 Outside 4' 8.5" Caledonian Railway No.436 '417 Class' Delivered in 67
1278 1867 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.396 & 1122, LNER No.9945 & 10122 '396 Class'/'J31'
1279 1867 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.397 & 1123 '396 Class'
1280 1867 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.398 & 1124 '396 Class'
1281 1867 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.399 & 1125 '396 Class'
?? 1867 0-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.394, 394A, 812 & 1012 '394 Class'
?? 1867 0-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.395, 395A, 813 & 1013 '394 Class'
1282 1867 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.347 & 1136 '396 Class'
1283 1868 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.348 & 1137, LNER No.9948 & 10137 '396 Class'/'J31'
1284 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.376 & 1070, LNER No.9985 & 10070 '396 Class'/'J31'
1285 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.377 & 1071 '396 Class'
1286 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.379 & 1077 '396 Class'
1287 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.380 & 1082, LNER No.9943 & 10082 '396 Class'/'J31'
1288 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.381 & 1114, LNER No.9944 & 10114 '396 Class'/'J31'
1289 1868 0-6-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.378 & 1072 '396 Class'
1290 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.382, later 1044 '382 Class'
1291 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.383, later 1049 '382 Class'
1292 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.384, later 1057 '382 Class'
1293 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.385, later 1062 '382 Class'
1294 1867 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" Great Eastern Railway No.125
1297 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.386, later 1111 '382 Class'
1298 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.387, later 1115 '382 Class'
1299 1866 2-4-0 Inside 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.388, later 1116 '382 Class'
1311 1867 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.270, later 270A '270 Series' Stock date 5th of Feb
1312 1867 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.271, '270 Series' Stock date 5th of Feb
1313 1867 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.272, '270 Series' Stock date 3rd of March
1314 1867 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.273 '270 Series' Stock date 30th of March
1315 1867 0-4-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Great Northern Railway No.274 '270 Series' Stock date 31st of March
1316 1867 2-2-2WT Inside 4' 8.5" Glasgow & South Western Railway No.159
1350 1864 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.389 & 1117 '382 Class'
1351 1866 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.390 & 1118 '382 Class'
1352 1866 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.391 & 1119 '382 Class'
1353 1866 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.392 & 1120 '382 Class'
1354 1866 2-4-0 ?? 4' 8.5" North British Railway No.393 & 1121 '382 Class'

3788 1883 0-4-0ST Outside 4' 8.5" Hockley Hall & Whately Collieries & Brickworks round saddle tank

 

[John Baker]

Been a most productive round of posts for me too It's a somewhat more modern build than the West Somerset orders but I've just about acquired all the outstanding titles of 'Industrial Locomotives of ____' since this got going and to my pleasure p124 of 'Industrial Railways and Locomotives of Cumberland' contains an opposite side photo of Phoenix (formerly Bob Ridley and Furness Railway No.50).
While only a few exist currently these new variant titles are a great resource should any cover a region you're keen on or simply have a general interest in industrial designs. To that end did hope 'Industrial Railways and Locomotives of South Western England' would have some additional info on the Redruth & Chasewater but alas it's a pretty brief pitstop and like the original title from 1977 Spitfire is simply said to be Works No.540. Given the year on that NRM listing I could continue to dismiss this as parroted misinformation but having put together a partial works list for Neilson there's enough markers to see 540 is about right for when the engine was delivered. As I say seeing the GA in proper detail would be the ticket but it might be the given NRM date is misleading, while the lack of the rear bunker could be down to the design starting off as a tender engine (presumably the tender would of been a modest coal truck or the extension was an even later revision). Sounds unlikely as detailed drawings didn't usually get the go ahead only to be cancelled but something isn't adding up.

To finish on another box a General Arrangement dated 26th of December 1862 is reproduced in either No.183 or 184 of Industrial Railway Record for Works No.978. I would be surprised if anyone tried to model this camera shy Brunel gauge build to be honest but it's out there in published form if you're curious.

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Downloads/IRRNDX20.pdf

Thanks for the works numbers - these will be most helpful when I get up to York and see the drawings in person. The NRM listings are a bit of a stab in the dark, so being armed with works numbers will hopefully be very useful to narrow the search somewhat
John

 

[Overseer]

I think it could be useful for anyone wanting to build a model of something unusual to have a works photo and outline drawing of the single cylinder box tanks built in 1856 - presumably builders numbers 373, 376, 377, 414, 415 and 425 from the list earlier in this thread.


This photograph was published in 'Scottish Railway Connections'.


Outline diagram as published in 'The British Steam Railway Locomotive From 1825 to 1925'. The text describing the drawings was -

"Neilson’s Single Cylinder Locomotive

In 1857 Messrs. Neilson and Co., Glasgow, constructed a number of four-wheeled saddle tank shunting locomotives (W.M. Neilson’s patent, April, 1856, No. 988.) for colliery and ironworks railways in Scotland. They are shown in the diagram, Fig. 156, and were of unique design. A single cylinder, 10in. by 16in., was placed on the centre line of the engine below the furnace at the footplate end. The piston-rod, which came out at the back of the cylinder, was pinned to the centre of a transverse crosshead, to the outer ends of which the connecting-rods were attached. The latter drove the trailing wheels, 3ft. 2in. [error - scales as 2'3"] diameter, by means of outside crank pins. The trailing wheels were coupled to the leading wheels. The left-hand coupling-rod worked directly on the driving crank pin extension in the usual manner, but on the right-hand side a thin crank was interposed between the connecting and coupling-rods in such a way that the right hand and left-hand coupling rods were at 90 deg. This arrangement assisted the engine over dead centres, and prevented the two connecting-rods from moving the wheels in opposite directions at the beginning of a stroke. The fire-box consisted of a D -shaped furnace, 3ft. 8in. long, with a flat top stayed with transverse girders, and between the furnace and smoke-box tube-plates were 74 tubes, 5ft. long. Steam was taken from the dome at the back of the boiler to a valve at the side of the footplate, which served as a regulator and thence passed downwards to a steam chest on the left-hand side of the cylinder. The reversing gear consisted of two excentrics, one at each end of the leading axle, with short rods terminating in gab forks, to which a transverse shaft was attached by lifting links. The valve spindle came out the back of the cylinder, where it was attached to a short “crosshead”. To the outer ends of this crosshead two long valve rods, which passed one on each side of the cylinder to the cross shaft, were connected."

Having checked the scale of the drawing there is an typo in the description. The wheels scale at 2'3" rather than the quoted 3'2". The loco in the photograph looks like it could be narrow gauge but scaling the given dimensions of the boiler confirms that it is standard gauge. Presumably the drawing prepared by 'The Engineer' was based on the Patent drawing.

It would be good to have a similar level of information for one or some of the more normal box tanks.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I have a drawing of on used on a tramway that ran to the mines in the village where I grow up. It was 3ft gauge.
I will see if i can find it

Marc

 

[Sleeper Agent]

I've generally skirted around researching the single cylinder and the somewhat similar two cylinder ditties so not great with the stand alones but are these the ones you're referring to Marc?






It occurs to me the eluded to RMweb thread hasn't actually been linked in all this time so just incase anyone is unaware it's this one, though the earlier pages have been ravaged by the photo archive loss issue from a while back. Still there's at least one image of each standard and broad gauge example where I could find.

Neilson Tank Engines Boxy and Not Boxy

www.rmweb.co.uk

---

John

Yeah that NRM listing isn't the easiest to scroll through! Not sure why the drawings aren't laid out chronologically but perhaps it's how they were originally archived and they haven't been updated since. I can only really point out Drawing No.47771 on p110 is one of the Holyhead Breakwater boxes while the 4' 0" gauge badgers on p79 and 101 are ones I'll also be looking to order as and when to satisfy curiosity.

Completely unrelated but it does appear the 2-2-2ST on p90 is the unusual side+saddle passenger tank sent out to the Dublin & Drogheda Railway,

Neilson 2-2-2T tank engine by TS_Engineering on Shapeways

Check out Neilson 2-2-2T tank engine by TS_Engineering on Shapeways and discover more 3D printed products in Trains.

www.shapeways.com

and while not as handsome a similar mineral railway variant went to the Dowlais Ironworks.

As I say not box related by any stretch but builds that have held my eye for a while and in any scale would be pretty unique. Just glad to have that archive list linked as I never seemed to get anywhere when trying to run searches on the NRM site

 

[John Baker]

I think it could be useful for anyone wanting to build a model of something unusual to have a works photo and outline drawing of the single cylinder box tanks built in 1856 - presumably builders numbers 373, 376, 377, 414, 415 and 425 from the list earlier in this thread.

View attachment 170995
This photograph was published in 'Scottish Railway Connections'.

View attachment 170996
Outline diagram as published in 'The British Steam Railway Locomotive From 1825 to 1925'. The text describing the drawings was -

"Neilson’s Single Cylinder Locomotive

In 1857 Messrs. Neilson and Co., Glasgow, constructed a number of four-wheeled saddle tank shunting locomotives (W.M. Neilson’s patent, April, 1856, No. 988.) for colliery and ironworks railways in Scotland. They are shown in the diagram, Fig. 156, and were of unique design. A single cylinder, 10in. by 16in., was placed on the centre line of the engine below the furnace at the footplate end. The piston-rod, which came out at the back of the cylinder, was pinned to the centre of a transverse crosshead, to the outer ends of which the connecting-rods were attached. The latter drove the trailing wheels, 3ft. 2in. [error - scales as 2'3"] diameter, by means of outside crank pins. The trailing wheels were coupled to the leading wheels. The left-hand coupling-rod worked directly on the driving crank pin extension in the usual manner, but on the right-hand side a thin crank was interposed between the connecting and coupling-rods in such a way that the right hand and left-hand coupling rods were at 90 deg. This arrangement assisted the engine over dead centres, and prevented the two connecting-rods from moving the wheels in opposite directions at the beginning of a stroke. The fire-box consisted of a D -shaped furnace, 3ft. 8in. long, with a flat top stayed with transverse girders, and between the furnace and smoke-box tube-plates were 74 tubes, 5ft. long. Steam was taken from the dome at the back of the boiler to a valve at the side of the footplate, which served as a regulator and thence passed downwards to a steam chest on the left-hand side of the cylinder. The reversing gear consisted of two excentrics, one at each end of the leading axle, with short rods terminating in gab forks, to which a transverse shaft was attached by lifting links. The valve spindle came out the back of the cylinder, where it was attached to a short “crosshead”. To the outer ends of this crosshead two long valve rods, which passed one on each side of the cylinder to the cross shaft, were connected."

Having checked the scale of the drawing there is an typo in the description. The wheels scale at 2'3" rather than the quoted 3'2". The loco in the photograph looks like it could be narrow gauge but scaling the given dimensions of the boiler confirms that it is standard gauge. Presumably the drawing prepared by 'The Engineer' was based on the Patent drawing.

It would be good to have a similar level of information for one or some of the more normal box tanks.

I think this is the one that Ian Rice refers to as 'Mr Neilson's Donkey' in Model Railway Magazine, December 1981. A fine looking 'beast'!

 

[GrahamMc]

Just glad to have that archive list linked as I never seemed to get anywhere when trying to run searches on the NRM site

Hi, it's not a link, it's a copy, a pdf that you should be able to download. I downloaded it years ago, good job I did, I've not been able to find it since then! If it's of interest save yourself a copy.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I've generally skirted around researching the single cylinder and the somewhat similar two cylinder ditties so not great with the stand alones but are these the ones you're referring to Marc?
View attachment 171019
View attachment 171020

View attachment 171021
View attachment 171022

It occurs to me the eluded to RMweb thread hasn't actually been linked in all this time so just incase anyone is unaware it's this one, though the earlier pages have been ravaged by the photo archive loss issue from a while back. Still there's at least one image of each standard and broad gauge example where I could find.

Neilson Tank Engines Boxy and Not Boxy

www.rmweb.co.uk

Yes that's the one. That saves me looking for them.

Marc

 

[Overseer]

The loco in the photograph looks like it could be narrow gauge

Thinking about it, the photograph probably shows the metre gauge builders number 416 as drawn and modelled in the article above. The Engineer drawing is of the standard gauge locos.

 

[Sleeper Agent]

Recently been pointed to a 1893-5 photo of Gen Williams sporting an ogee tank against Newports round one from its 1895 rebuild.

Photograph showing an industrial landscape with the workers of...

Photograph showing an industrial landscape with the workers of Victoria works in front of the Victoria blast furnaces, a colliery steam engine and carts.

www.gettyimages.ie

With only one other clear(ish) photo of the Ebbw Vale tanks in box form it's folly to make too many presumptions, but compared to 'the box' on the West Somerset it seems the six, or at least the built pair that Gen Williams belonged to, were built with angular cabs/bunkers against the more familiar curved type that Newport appears to of been rebuilt with. Other differences from the post 11th of September 1878 underground explosion photo is the addition of a spectacle plate, a new rear buffer beam and the cylinders have been replaced.

I'm not sure if anyone can assist with this box but my North British Railway library is pretty limited so anything additional or that can be backed up by another source would be handy.

In all honesty I'm dubious its a Neilson from looking at it but a thorougher rebuild would explain the familiar NBR dome poking out at least. Page 63 of 'Industrial Locomotives of Scotland' lists Works No.462 being built in 58 new for Elgin & Wellwood Collieries, Dunfermline (owned by Thomas Spowart & Co), then to the Elgin Railway/West of Fife Railway in 62? and finally absorbed into the NBR as No.65 (in the same year?).

Mineral railways of Dunfermline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the postcard it is sporting a No.24A plate but apparently it also carried 166 (or should this be 165?), 166A, 833, 1033. It seems to of been withdrawn in 1903 but I'm solely going off what is scribbled on the postcard.

 

[John Baker]

I marvel at how much people know here. A true mine of information I'm afraid I can't help with the above.....

As for my own research, I went to the NRM and found a suitable drawing - as the records list didn't make it particularly easy to work out what was what, I had the pleasure of looking through several old drawings - they are things of beauty, obviously hand drawn and have more detail than the mind can compute! We could not find the original works drawing for the West Somerset Mineral Railway box tank, however I did find one that was very similar. Many of the drawings were only side elevations, and it was very difficult to determine if the tank was a box, or the coffee pot shape. A combination of the GA drawing from the NRM, line drawings and numerous photos, I have enough to make a start designing some etches. Don't think this will be for the next few weeks though - the diary is already starting to fill up towards Christmas (apologies to mention that word so early in the year!).

 

[Sleeper Agent]

Lovely to hear Didn't get too far with my visit the NRM a few years back but would like to return at some point with a short list organised in advance. Likewise appreciate side on only drawings being quite hard to discern as the late Brunel gauge box built for the Holyhead breakwater project could easily be mistaken for a round saddle type looking solely at the works No.978 general arrangement.
Not sure if it helps ID your museum takeaway but I've overhauled the list on p1 using several books to scrounge what I can. The green listings are boxes while red are merely possibilities, with the mystery eBay photo still being unaccounted for. 'Locomotives of the North British Railway 1846-1882' along with Mike Williams's 'North British Railway Part 11' of his text only 'British Pre-grouping Railways' series both backup the above photo being a Neilson so it must of received quite an overhaul after absorption. The Fife also provided another two 0-4-0 Neilson tanks from the same period but hard info is scarce (Mike lists the photographed engine as an 0-4-0T instead of an 0-4-0ST for example). Not too likely additional photos of these early low key shunters will surface but I'll try to keep an eye out through on and off NBR searches. Said list is really just a side project but if anyone can spot early missing builds from other constitute railways, exports or simply errors I'll happily update it as and when.

 

[Sandy Harper]

My version of the HR rebuilt 'Box' but subsequently found to be totally inaccurate! New etches are very close to being produced for a 7mm kit.


Sandy

 

[John Baker]

Very nice!