1/32 New Northern Finescale Brake Van

[Simon]

I think the number of potential sales in G1 probably does have a bearing, and let's be honest hardly any kit is "perfect". When you look at the origins of the kit then you also have the 10mm versus 1/32 dichotomy to factor in and the bulk of the G1 market is remarkably forgiving and even unconcerned with fidelity to prototype....

Today I finished modifying parts such that I am now in a position to erect the cabin on its underframe. This is also basically formed with the buffers fitted (a better part of the kit, built as supplied and fit for purpose) and the end "step" formed, which was a bit of a fiddle. The underframe supplied is too deep so I have cut the bottom flange off and used some other subterfuges to create a credible result.

All quite enjoyable really......

Simon

 

[John Miller]

In Simon's case he is the first to buy one, compare against drawings and post the results - the people you need to ask your 'put up with' question to are the ones who buy it knowing the shortcomings. Somebody needs to have parted with cash and analysed it to let everybody else know......

Steve

I'm afraid I must disagree with you there Steve - I havn't bought one, parted with cash or analysed it first hand - and yet it was pretty obvious to me that there was something wrong here as I pointed out in my post #2 and #10 in this thread.

The only mystery to me is why someone of Simon's obvious expertise and ability should still be claiming .......

........... and having opened the kit last night it is evident that a great deal of care and thought has gone into the whole thing.

..........after he'd actually taken delivery of the kit! ....


Maybe 'markjj' has hit the nail on the head in his post #35 ....

 

[Simon]

John

I am not "claiming" anything, it is quite clear upon receiving the kit and examining the contents that a great deal of care has been taken in its preparation and packing. There are however shortcomings as I have described and in its current format I wouldn't be recommending that anyone rushed out and bought one in any expectation of quickly creating an accurate model straight from the kit as supplied.

The modification and building up of what's in the kit is however an enjoyable experience and I am travelling in the hope or even expectation of creating a good representation of the prototype that will also be a practical and robust model for use in the garden. Despite its shortcomings, this happy result will be the product of having bought the kit in the first place.

Pondering over what a scratchbuilt version would have felt like over the same time put in to this kit, the answer is that it would be taking longer to get to where I have got to, and I would need to be sourcing even more additional parts and materials to finish it off. It would have offered similar challenges but would possibly have been more satisfying.

On that note I can wholeheartedly recommend scratch building over anything else as being the most satisfying branch of this whole wonderful hobby of ours.

If you haven't ever tried it, then get a drawing of what you fancy, assemble some stuff and get stuck in - much better than being cross about kits!

Simon

 

[John Miller]

My Dear Simon - if you're implying that I'm 'cross' about kits, I can assure you that is not the case.

I'm merely adding my twopenn'orth for the bennefit of people like myself who would like to be more involved with G1, but who find the financial bar at entry is set so high. I accept that you're enjoying this kit and you personaly find it good value, but I suspect that may be down to a couple of reasons.

Your ability to make something of it far exceeds that of the average 'man in the street' kit buyer.

Your socio-economic status - in common with a high proportion of G1 enthusiasts - means that if kits like this don't work out for any reason, you can just consign them to the 'cupboard of doom' with scant regard for the actual financial cost involved. Not all of us are so lucky.

Your own references like "the price is what it is" and "it's poor value even by G1 standards" would tend to confirm a certain indifference to financial costs that has enabled some manufacturers to take advantage this perception.

It's nothing to be cross about - just a simple statement of the way things are that people might want to be aware of.

 

[djparkins]

You wouldn't sell more than a handful if you did this in 7mm.

In 7mm these days you wouldn't sell more than a handful of a kit anyway - regardless. You would need to sell 150 units minimum to be viable.

DJP/MMP

 

[adrian]

but who find the financial bar at entry is set so high

the trick is to sneak under that bar by trying scratch-building.

Your ability to make something of it far exceeds that of the average 'man in the street' kit buyer.

Actually I have always reckoned that scratch building is easier than kit building, the skills required for scratch building are no different to those learnt from kit building. The difference is that when scratch building I can make the part the way I want it to be made and I don't have to modify what the kit supplier has produced.

 

[Simon]

Hmm, whilst being flattered by the allegations of skill, this next line impresses me much less, hardly applying to my situation I can assure you.

Your socio-economic status - in common with a high proportion of G1 enthusiasts - means that if kits like this don't work out for any reason, you can just consign them to the 'cupboard of doom' with scant regard for the actual financial cost involved. Not all of us are so lucky.

Anyway, let's get back to modelling, here are the key parts leant together and looking a lot more like a BR brake van I think.



I'm now working on the underframe using the supplied parts as a basis. Apart from being too tall and having overly square flanges, they are also thicker than scale which causes issues with the functioning metal W irons that I like to use.

Files out, more pictures later.

Simon

 

[jamiepage]

Quote. (John Miller).
'I'm merely adding my twopenn'orth for the bennefit of people like myself who would like to be more involved with G1, but who find the financial bar at entry is set so high.'

I'm not at all sure how these sort of contributions can actually benefit anyone to be frank. Nor the frankly rude references to an individual's 'socio- economic status'.

I was looking forward to watching Simon's build unfold on this thread and had already learnt the price, the contents, the errors found so far, and Simon's work- arounds.
It is this sort of information that can help active modellers in a practical way (How much, what one gets, what can be done with it); is it too much to hope it could continue without the more juvenile contributions?

If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you want to model more cheaply, then scratchbuild. You may feel you are less lucky than Simon but you don't need to be lucky to scratchbuild, you just need to knuckle down and do it.
If you want to pontificate on socio- economic prejudices, or moan about 'what's wrong with G1', then for Heaven's sake do it somewhere else and let Simon show us what he makes of this model.

 

[John Miller]

.........let Simon show us what he makes of this model.

I agree - any further discussion about the content of your post would divert Simon's thread in a direction that it doesn't need to go.

 

[Simon]

I have attached the "lowered" sole bars to the floor after having cut out recesses for where the folded up W irons will be going. I have also re-windowed and glazed the inner veranda windows, fixing with Mek Pak and then Johnsons Kleer. Finally I have marked out some brass sheet in readiness for cutting out some W irons for the van, using an etch for LMS clasp brake gear as a marking out guide. This last was done for me by Fred Phipps some years ago for a Lowfit project. It isn't suitable for the van as the W irons were solid plate backed types on the brake van, I think.

This picture more or less shows the above, you can just see one end of the cut out top left ish.



A session with the piercing saw next.

 

[Simon]

I'm happy with the body proportions, job's a good 'un I think.



On to the undergubbins, piercing saw wielded, gawd it took me hours, first cutting out, then soldering two pieces together and final filing to shape, drilling holes, unsoldering and then bending up, my grooves weren't groovy enough and despite annealing the brass one W iron broke off, which was tedious to solder back square, upright etc.

Then attaching to under frame such that wheel axles will be at right angles to the underframe, which required more carving our behind the solebar faces.

All told four plus hours work I reckon.




Anyway, it's done and at least the thing sits square when placed on a flat surface and on its W irons. Time to finally epoxy them into position I think. Being self critical, I have over-cooked the reduction in height of the solebars - I sense a bit of remedial bodging coming up!

Simon

 

[Steve Cook]

W irons look good Simon - I assume you are going to add on the bottom lip of the solebar as part of the remedy
Steve

 

[Dan Randall]

That stove in the first picture looks a bit overscale - oh, my mistake, it's a tin of paint!



Regards

Dan

 

[Simon]

More stuttering progress. Just before 2016 ended and as I was adding the bottom flange to the chassis, I spotted that I'd managed to fix both W iron pieces in the wrong place, right wheelbase but asymmetric to the body - how do I manage it?

They were very firmly attached, but I had to sort it out then and there or I'd never have got to sleep. So much nerve wracking scraping, levering and cleaning up of mostly cured epoxy later resulted, three hours into 2017, in my eventually getting back where I thought I was in the previous year….

Today I have had a more pleasant time adding detail to the inner veranda ends, adding strips of styrene to the duckets so that they both fit properly and fiddling with wheels and bearings etc. I'm using Slaters components for this part of the build. The solebars and headstocks are now finished and awaiting detailing with plates, brackets and boltyrivet things. I am contemplating erecting the body on to the chassis, but may first paint around the inner veranda windows.



I am looking forward to the detailing up of the body, which offers much scope for happy hours of using my new Optivisor.

Simon

 

[ceejaydee]

Excellent work making your way through what is a tricky build - I also like the fact that you do a 'warts and all' commentary including any slight faux pas that may have otherwise gone unnoticed if you hadn't mentioned them

As you made your own I'd guess that suitable etched W irons are not available in 1/32, but taking on board that your LMS patterns (W irons) were special order do you know if standard RCH open types available from anywhere?

 

[Simon]

Thanks Christopher.

The closest thing to what you suggest is the Slaters G91546, but otherwise not.

I think what you suggest would actually be one of the most useful aids to creating decent wagon models in G1 that could be made and after bodging my creations on to this model I think I'm going to ask that talented Justin Newitt fellow whether he'd consider producing something. A sheet including some brake gear together with other useful bits like the slotted plate that goes around the coupling and possibly coupling hooks would be incredibly useful, brake levers too, cutting them out of sheet is very time consuming.

Despite this, last night I got the van chassis up on its wheels, fitted springs (the tiny ones that Slaters supply for inside their buffers) and brush painted the inner veranda ends.

I used the spring mouldings supplied with the kit, but am now looking at the buffers from the kit and contemplating replacing with the Slaters product, which have more visual finesse.

Simon

 

[Simon]

State of play this morning:



The concrete end platforms need another addition of Plastikard to get their heights correct, the wheels will probably get tickled with the lathe, it needs a bit of weight to get the ride height correct (slightly too high at the moment) and then of course lots of detailing to be done.

Looking back at the kit, and on the basis of experience noted above, I couldn't recommend it as a complete package that will give you a scale model without additional work and parts substitution. And yet it would have taken considerably longer for me to get to this stage if I was scratchbuilding everything. Also, the above picture shows the while thing assembled "dry", which is a testament to both the basic design concept of the kit, its method of assembly and the accuracy of the parts produced, generally milled out of styrene sheet as has been observed earlier.

Here's a cruel close up of the W iron and spring area:



There is still a lot of work to go into this model, but from now onwards it is (brake blocks apart) pretty much pleasant detailing work. I fancy that once I have finished then this van will stand comparison with my etched one, and may even look better in some ways.

I will be reporting back the dimensional issues to Roger Leigh and would hope that he is able to modify his sheet cutting and milling processes to correct these errors, none of which impinge upon the rest of the kit and its components.

Having said I won't be building another, I would like to get a second part set of components from Roger as I think they would make a great basis for a model of the earlier LNER "Toad E", a prototype I like a lot and which was a regular around Wadebridge and on the Wenford Bridge freights in late steam days.

I ought to get back to the rest of my life now, so there will probably be less updates on this model. That said, I predict with certainty that it will get completed more quickly and with much less pain than last year's PMV(!)

Happy New Year to all

Simon

 

[mickoo]

I think what you suggest would actually be one of the most useful aids to creating decent wagon models in G1 that could be made and after bodging my creations on to this model I think I'm going to ask that talented Justin Newitt fellow whether he'd consider producing something. A sheet including some brake gear together with other useful bits like the slotted plate that goes around the coupling and possibly coupling hooks would be incredibly useful, brake levers too, cutting them out of sheet is very time consuming.

Simon

I did wonder myself why you didn't get them etched up and figured the time waiting (about three weeks for PPD) and the cost to be the deciding factors.
Depending on material and size (PPD minimum is 12x6") for a one off run you'd be looking in the region of £50, not cheap but working on £25/hr much cheaper than cutting by hand and you'd probably get two may be three sets of W irons on a sheet with space for some niff naff around the edges.

MD

 

[Stoke5D]

In 7mm these days you wouldn't sell more than a handful of a kit anyway - regardless. You would need to sell 150 units minimum to be viable.

DJP/MMP

OK but this prototype is surely one of the most popular/useful to model and a good representation would bring the most sales on an ongoing basis, it might even bring more bystanders into that scale. Pity you aren't active in 1/32...

I have a few classic cars and this feels a lot like what happens when a bad reproduction part hits the market. It means there then isn't enough demand for the better manufacturers to make their version (the one everyone really wants and needs).


Andrew

 

[John Miller]

......... it might even bring more bystanders into that scale. Pity you aren't active in 1/32...

I have a few classic cars and this feels a lot like what happens when a bad reproduction part hits the market. It means there then isn't enough demand for the better manufacturers to make their version (the one everyone really wants and needs).


Andrew

Exactly so! ....