Optimum height for layouts at exibitions

[76043]

@Terry , Exactly as @cloggydog said, that's what the chap who I spoke to basically said. He carries one, but wishes he didn't have to. To be honest I can't imagine it's great viewing and I wouldn't want to either.
Tony

 

[NHY 581]

Let's not forget that it is not only visitors who have medical issues. For many who choose to exhibit their layouts, ongoing medical issues dictate a suitable height at which their layouts are most comfortable to operate.

Rob

 

[Osgood]

I found some data on average viewing height (eye height) for standing children as they grow up (seems realistic but I cannot confirm its reliability).
From 13 boys grow a bit quicker than girls, the table below will give you an idea of what they can see.

Decide by experiment the lowest viewing level at which your layout displays well (maybe 5" / 125mm above rail level?)
Decide upon the target audience minimum age and that will give you an idea of what level to set your layout.
Or use the table to inform you the age above which youngsters will be able to enjoy your layout at your chosen display height.



Given that 1m rail height seems to work for seated and wheelchair users, that would encompass youngsters aged 9 +.

 

[Man in black]

An interesting discussion here. All my exhibition layouts use the same trestles and so have a rail height of 41" which most adults and kids can view. We sit on bar stools behind or at the end of the layouts, but as we are getting older, we are thinking of lowering the height to 36" which would improve the view for smaller children, and allow the operators to sit on normal chairs.

We also watch the interaction of various children and often give them the controllers. The look on the parents faces as their children skilfully drive a few thousand pounds of O gauge trains is priceless, and it may get more children interested.

Kev and Maggie Smith.

 

[Terry]

At the risk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what percentage of overall visitors to shows are made up of wheelchair users? Let me hazard a guess and say probably under one percent. Do we ignore the wishes/needs of the other ninety-nine percent, who may have no desire to bend or crouch to view every exhibit? As regards children, personally I don't regard myself as a child entertainer. If I exhibit my models, it is in the hope of having intelligent conversations with other adults, hopefully fellow modellers, where an exchange of ideas and experiences can take place. That's not to say that I would dismiss out of hand any youngster who showed an interest. My choice of layout height reflects my personal preferences. Each to their own, as they say.

Terry

 

[Osgood]

The options are wide ranging if making your own board supports.
Certainly one benefit of those steel trestles is the inbuilt facility to set up at a range of viewing heights.
The standard height settings are, from lowest height, +50, +100, +200, +300, +400, +500mm.
For example, my trestle / board interface at 2nd ht setting gives a rail height of 1m - so it can be set to 0.95, 1.0, 1.05, 1.15, 1.25, 1.35, 1.45m.

For Mr. Average, an ideal rail height for low level viewing when standing would be 1.35m (if low level is the ideal height for viewing the layout).

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I found some data on average viewing height (eye height) for standing children as they grow up (seems realistic but I cannot confirm its reliability).
From 13 boys grow a bit quicker than girls, the table below will give you an idea of what they can see.

Decide by experiment the lowest viewing level at which your layout displays well (maybe 5" / 125mm above rail level?)
Decide upon the target audience minimum age and that will give you an idea of what level to set your layout.
Or use the table to inform you the age above which youngsters will be able to enjoy your layout at your chosen display height.

View attachment 231646

Given that 1m rail height seems to work for seated and wheelchair users, that would encompass youngsters aged 9 +.

Suppose it depends if your a F/S or S7 child , a F/S one will be a couple of inches short of a full foot ! ......... ooops ! duck's under the baseboard !

 

[Tim Hale]

"At the risk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what percentage of overall visitors to shows are made up of wheelchair users?"

And your point is what exactly?

There is no reason why a visitor cannot sit on chair and conduct a conservation with the operator.

Tim

 

[Eastsidepilot]

In all seriousness ( if I can be ) the height at which we display an exhibition layout in the end is going to be down to who ever built it, as with large group layouts such as Love Lane then it's down to a consensus of opinion amongst the members.
Final thought...this hobby has always involved the youngsters, I got involved as a young child, and we need them to keep it going otherwise it'll disappear so making allowances for them either with hop ups or a stool if the layout is at height should be thought about.

BBC Four - The Frost Report Is Back!, The Class Sketch

Col.

 

[PMP]

"At the risk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what percentage of overall visitors to shows are made up of wheelchair users?"

And your point is what exactly?

There is no reason why a visitor cannot sit on chair and conduct a conservation with the operator.

Tim

I see where @Terry is coming from, hence liking his post. I can’t speak for him but I imagine like myself he has every sympathy with less able or disabled visitors to shows. My layouts are displayed ’high’, this is because that’s how they sit at home, they are designed and specifically built for home use. If they are invited to a show that’s a bonus, and I don’t do many. If I were building a layout specifically or primarily for exhibition use, then I would design it differently and (probably) display it at a lower height. As it is the sightlines particularly for S2 and S3, are critical for the operators to position stock go automatic uncoupling. Changing those sightlines and presentation for an occasional show for me isn’t practical. I’ll try and take a picture later on with S4.
I have had discussions with wheelchair users, two were of note. One was extremely hostile that because of the persons approach left me with very much the feeling. The other was polar opposite, even though they couldn’t see it, they were pleased to see it out, and one of the reasons they came to the show was to talk to me. They’d followed the socials

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Now I’m under no illusions that viewing a layout digitally is as good as seeing it close up, but that second interaction where they were happy that they could chat to me and other visitors could see it ‘properly’, told me there’s no easy answer. I do make sure that anyone who is interested is aware of the socials that are available. It’s up to the layout builder to build what they want. It’s up to an exhibition manager to decide if they take it or not.

 

[cloggydog]

At the risk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what percentage of overall visitors to shows are made up of wheelchair users? Let me hazard a guess and say probably under one percent. Do we ignore the wishes/needs of the other ninety-nine percent, who may have no desire to bend or crouch to view every exhibit? As regards children, personally I don't regard myself as a child entertainer. If I exhibit my models, it is in the hope of having intelligent conversations with other adults, hopefully fellow modellers, where an exchange of ideas and experiences can take place. That's not to say that I would dismiss out of hand any youngster who showed an interest. My choice of layout height reflects my personal preferences. Each to their own, as they say.

Terry

Agreed it is a low percentage, but equally how may don't attend because they could not see half (or more) of the layouts?

We may not see ourselves as childrens' entertainers, but equally we cannot then complain about 'the death of the hobby' with no young new blood coming in. I've had intelligent conversations with young modellers (age 7 or 8 upwards) who really enjoyed the opportunity to operate a layout, it opens their eyes to something beyond the 6x 4 train set and at least one was inspired enough to start his own shunting puzzle layout.


Tim's OP was reflecting on how difficult he finds it to stand operating all day. Now, I'm a decade or two younger than Tim, but even I find it increasingly uncomfortable to stand operating for long periods, hence a decision to bring my layouts down to a more comfortable seated operating height. It is easier to do that with micro layouts, I grant you, but viewing a layout seated doesn't deny any one the opportunity to enjoy it.

 

[Terry]

"At the risk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, what percentage of overall visitors to shows are made up of wheelchair users?"

And your point is what exactly?

There is no reason why a visitor cannot sit on chair and conduct a conservation with the operator.

Tim

Whilst I have sympathy for anyone forced to use a wheelchair, my point is that if you exhibit every layout at a height suitable for the minority of visitors, the majority of visitors will be affected to some extent. This might take the form of bending or crouching etc., which can be uncomfortable for many people, or they will be forced to view the layout as if from a helicopter. Not the best view in my opinion. The truth is that there is no height which will be suitable for everybody, either operator or visitor. As you say Tim, there is no reason why a visitor cannot sit on a chair and conduct a conversation with the operator. But experience of visiting many shows tells me that the number of chairs will be restricted to two at most, and having secured a seat, many occupants will be reluctant to finish the conversation and move away, thereby allowing the next two visitors to sit and engage. Frustrated visitors may simply give up trying. As I said earlier, you should exhibit your layout at a height which will suit you. You can't please all the people all of the time.

Terry

 

[Osgood]

Well summed up Terry.

 

[Terry]

I have to say that this conversation has thrown up some interesting views and has also highlighted the problems with deciding on layout heights. And thanks to Tim for raising this issue. It has caused me to reflect on how a solution might be managed with regard to my present exhibition layout. If I may be permitted to show a picture of said exhibition layout...

​

The layout sits on wooden legs which are connected to each other with two cross-braces for stability. This assembly sits atop a six-foot table. The actual layout is not attached to the supporting frame and can be lifted off. It now occurs to me that, if circumstances require it, the layout could be lifted up, placed in front of the supporting frame, and displayed directly on the table top. It could be accomplished in less than a couple of minutes. Same time for the reverse procedure. Now there's a thought which I will float past my operating accomplice. We are exhibiting this coming weekend so may get the opportunity to give it a try.

Terry

 

[Osgood]

That would be a wonderful gesture for any wheelchair operators.
If there are several or small children too you could arrange a low-level time to accommodate them all.

 

[Terry]

That would be a wonderful gesture for any wheelchair operators.
If there are several or small children too you could arrange a low-level time to accommodate them all.

It has interesting possibilities. For instance, alternate the height periodically, say every hour. Hmm.. food for thought!

Terry