Pre-Grouping Railways workbench

M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Over the weekend we released the following new kit in 4mm at EMGS ExpoEM spring.
Barry/GWR/BR 5plk open on a iron Under-frame
GWR/BR Iron Mink
Barry/GWR/BR iron mink
GWR/BR z1/Z4 Gunpowder Van
LYR/LMS/BR Gunpowder Van
FR/LMS Gunpowder Van
LNWR/LMS Gunpowder Van
Cambrian/GWR/BR Gun
NBR/LNER/BR Gunpowder Van
GNR/LNER/BR Gunpowder Van
GNR/LNER 4 1/2 plank open
LSWR/SR/BR 4 plank open

Due for release at Scalefour Crewe
GNR/LNER/BR large cattle van
NER/LNER P5 hopper
NER/LNER/PO R2 coke hopper
NER/PO R4 coke hopper
LSWR/SR Refrigerator van
LSWR 1st/2nd 6-wheel composite
SDJR/LMS/BR 20ton Good brake van

Marc
 
M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
For anyone who is interested I posted this on RM earlier to say only to have it taken down and to be given a formal warning because I haven't paid for advertising. It was the final nail in the coffin as I will no longer be posting anything there from now on.
 
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Flaxfield

Flaxfield

Western Thunderer
Marc Dobson said:
For anyone who is interested I posted this on RM earlier to say only to have it taken down and to be given a formal warning because I haven't paid for advertising. It was the final nail in the coffin as I will no longer be posting anything there from now on.
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Morning Marc.

I know some of how this position has arisen on RmWeb.
Warners, arguably understandably, introduced 'Trade Membership' to allow businesses to promote their products and businesses on RmWeb.

HOWEVER.......Where this has unravelled is their failure to differentiate between larger businesses and small, 'cottage industries' which are, to some extent' the backbone of our hobby providing the more bespoke products such as you do.

I am good friends with Chris Nicholls ( chuffinghell on RmWeb) who produces very small numbers of excellent 3D prints which he offered for sale via his thread and via the classifieds. However, somebody offering similar products made a formal complaint about this to Warners, and his ads were removed. He was also asked to cough up an amount per month to trade. That amount was the same as we ( Lord and Butler, a bricks and mortar model railway retailer ) pay per month. There is a considerable difference in monthly turnover between us but the two 'traders' were given the same terms which is wrong.

I know that Andy York and Phil Parker, both of whom are very supportive of small producers, sought to change this approach but where that is following Andy's untimely passing I have no idea.

Consequently, this treatment of small traders continues, for now at least until a common sense approach emerges.

Rob
 
timbowales

timbowales

Western Thunderer
NHY 581 said:
:rant: Morning Marc.

I know some of how this position has arisen on RmWeb.
Warners, arguably understandably, introduced 'Trade Membership' to allow businesses to promote their products and businesses on RmWeb.

HOWEVER.......Where this has unravelled is their failure to differentiate between larger businesses and small, 'cottage industries' which are, to some extent' the backbone of our hobby providing the more bespoke products such as you do.

I am good friends with Chris Nicholls ( chuffinghell on RmWeb) who produces very small numbers of excellent 3D prints which he offered for sale via his thread and via the classifieds. However, somebody offering similar products made a formal complaint about this to Warners, and his ads were removed. He was also asked to cough up an amount per month to trade. That amount was the same as we ( Lord and Butler, a bricks and mortar model railway retailer ) pay per month. There is a considerable difference in monthly turnover between us but the two 'traders' were given the same terms which is wrong.

I know that Andy York and Phil Parker, both of whom are very supportive of small producers, sought to change this approach but where that is following Andy's untimely passing I have no idea.

Consequently, this treatment of small traders continues, for now at least until a common sense approach emerges.

Rob
Click to expand...
I suppose that’s what happens once you get commercial types or accountants running things :rant:
 
Flaxfield

Flaxfield

Western Thunderer
Mick LNER said:
Or RM Web getting ideas above their actual stature in life.
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Hi, Mick.

RmWeb is a big forum, and whilst I have no idea of the running costs associated with it, it can not be cheap to maintain.
I terms of its standing within the Model railway forum community, it's certainly the largest in the U.K., which is why it's recognised by most of the manufacturers ( Hornby being so notable exception ), a lot of modelling personalities and over 45,000 members.

Therefore, it's no small investment for Warners to keep it churning over and understandably, they want to generate a return. Those of us who are gold or Premium members generate some income but when traders are using the forum to advertise their services and products for free, it was inevitable that Warners would see that as an opportunity to raise further revenue. I mean, you would expect a free advert in a magazine, would you ?

The issue is that of proportionality and this is where the concept of charging traders has so far failed the smaller cottage industries on RmWeb and unless it changes, it will continue to fail them.

Any 'demands' placed have to be appropriate and proportionate to the recipient and they're currently not.

The reason Marc's post was taken down is due to a 'level playing field' approach finally bring applied by Warners but it's only being applied following the initial complaint made against Chris by the disgruntled 'competitor'. Not only did they cause Chris a problem but they have caused all small traders a problem on RmWeb.


Rob
 
AJC

AJC

Western Thunderer
NHY 581 said:
Hi, Mick.

RmWeb is a big forum, and whilst I have no idea of the running costs associated with it, it can not be cheap to maintain.
I terms of its standing within the Model railway forum community, it's certainly the largest in the U.K., which is why it's recognised by most of the manufacturers ( Hornby being so notable exception ), a lot of modelling personalities and over 45,000 members.

Therefore, it's no small investment for Warners to keep it churning over and understandably, they want to generate a return. Those of us who are gold or Premium members generate some income but when traders are using the forum to advertise their services and products for free, it was inevitable that Warners would see that as an opportunity to raise further revenue. I mean, you would expect a free advert in a magazine, would you ?

The issue is that of proportionality and this is where the concept of charging traders has so far failed the smaller cottage industries on RmWeb and unless it changes, it will continue to fail them.

Any 'demands' placed have to be appropriate and proportionate to the recipient and they're currently not.

The reason Marc's post was taken down is due to a 'level playing field' approach finally bring applied by Warners but it's only being applied following the initial complaint made against Chris by the disgruntled 'competitor'. Not only did they cause Chris a problem but they have caused all small traders a problem on RmWeb.


Rob
Click to expand...

I think - on balance - that's a fair analysis. And balance is tricky, especially if you're a relatively large commercial publisher/events business like Warner's: I guess that it's hard to think down to that scale and to rationalise a hobby 'business'. That's not an excuse, and - for those of us that make things as well as buying them - it greatly reduces the utility of that forum. Such is life.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to building the brakevan I bought from Marc at Expo, it's a lovely little thing.

Adam
 
T

Terry

Western Thunderer
Marc Dobson said:
Over the weekend we released the following new kit in 4mm at EMGS ExpoEM spring.
Barry/GWR/BR 5plk open on a iron Under-frame
GWR/BR Iron Mink
Barry/GWR/BR iron mink
GWR/BR z1/Z4 Gunpowder Van
LYR/LMS/BR Gunpowder Van
FR/LMS Gunpowder Van
LNWR/LMS Gunpowder Van
Cambrian/GWR/BR Gun
NBR/LNER/BR Gunpowder Van
GNR/LNER/BR Gunpowder Van
GNR/LNER 4 1/2 plank open
LSWR/SR/BR 4 plank open

Due for release at Scalefour Crewe
GNR/LNER/BR large cattle van
NER/LNER P5 hopper
NER/LNER/PO R2 coke hopper
NER/PO R4 coke hopper
LSWR/SR Refrigerator van
LSWR 1st/2nd 6-wheel composite
SDJR/LMS/BR 20ton Good brake van

Marc
Click to expand...
Pardon my ignorance but can somebody (Marc?) enlighten me as to the nature of these kits, i.e. 3D printed, etched brass, whitemetal, etc.? Under what trade name are they sold, and is there a website? Thanks.
Terry

Edit - I just saw the top of the thread 'Pre-Grouping Railways'. Am I right in thinking 3D printed?
 
Osgood

Osgood

Western Thunderer
See post 12 here, Terry:

New wagons from Pre-Grouping Railways

More wagons have been retooled so they are available in 4mm and 7mm as complete kits and most are available in 2mm; TT; 3mm; HO; S; G1; G2 and G3 as wagon bodies. LYR/LMS 3plk FR/LMS/BR 3plk TVR/GWR/BR 3plk Cambrian/GWR 4plk Cambrian Lime (Dead buffered) Barry/GWR/BR 1plk GER/LNER 5plk (wooden...
www.westernthunder.co.uk
 
M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Terry said:
Pardon my ignorance but can somebody (Marc?) enlighten me as to the nature of these kits, i.e. 3D printed, etched brass, whitemetal, etc.? Under what trade name are they sold, and is there a website? Thanks.
Terry

Edit - I just saw the top of the thread 'Pre-Grouping Railways'. Am I right in thinking 3D printed?
Click to expand...
Hi Terry
The bodies are HD3d printed in resin, most unfitted wagons now have a 3d printed rocking subframes. Fitted vehicles have etch brass rocking subframe. Running boards are printed in nylon for flexibility. Buffers are solid and can be swapped out for Gibson's. The whole range is designed to fit Gibson's wheels so can be built with OO, EM or P4 wheels. Our expanded Irish range can be built in with 16.5mm or 21mm gauges.
Marc
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Not looked at your website for a while Marc, but pleased to see that you went ahead with the DN&GR wagons.

Mike
 
adrian

adrian

Flying Squad
Matt.S. said:
The RMWeb bashing that has surfaced on WT lately is getting a little stale.
Click to expand...
It has a bit to be honest. I think Rob's (@NHY 581)post was a fair and balanced assessment and little more needs to be added. They are a commercial enterprise and appear to be just sticking to the rules to be on the safe side, they have bills to pay and large customers to satisfy.

Personally I will always endeavour to support and promote cottage suppliers, having been directly involved with my Dad's endeavours, I.A. Model Engineering, later becoming Cherry Scale Models. Many a Saturday morning as a teenager milling, turning and welding rolling bars and rivet tools etc. So I'm aware of the almost vocational nature of the businesses - certainly not a career path paved with fame and fortune!

These issues need guidelines not rules to be flexible, it's never one size fits all. From a WT point of view I've no problem with Marc or others promoting their products, any help to generate sales for them. All I hope for in return is a little interaction with the members which Marc has done on numerous occasions.
 
Hayfield1

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
I have posted a lot on RMweb over the years but found Western Thunder a much better place to use in the recent past, I have no issues with the owners of RMweb and for it to continue it needs finance, that's why I was happy to live with the adds, as its them which keeps the forum alive

Nothing wrong with a business big or small getting free publicity, I assume not every business pays for the odd promotion every now and then, however where a site relies on income from adds and someone decides to announce without paying due fees a large release of new items its going to upset those who pay for advertising

Like all sites there are rules and we have them on here and recently (we had someone fall foul of them recently)

I find both forums of interest and accept like all I have to keep within the boundaries set by the moderators, I do find some rules can be a bit frustrating, but we are invited guests not fee paying members. And certainly on a site which lives off advertising, they have to protect their income stream

As for me, a list of items without any photos and descriptions showing their quality is of little interest, however you have started an interesting thread

Good luck
 
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